Nikon D5000 - should I?

[steamy]

Hi,

Bit of background.
Back in the days of 35mm I used to own a Minolta 7000 with a 35-70mm & 70-210mm,
travelled extensively with this gear whilst backpacking and got some great shots.
The lot got stolen and never replaced the gear.
Then digital came into the arena and whilst a bit slow on the uptake I eventually purchased
a Fujifilm S9600, mainly to see if I would get back into photography.
In a short time and only because the change over was $100 I sold the S9600 and upgraded
to the Fujifilm S100fs.
I will say it is a great camera and I can get great shots from the unit.
But I am now longing for fast focusing, a viewfinder that is enjoyable to look through and
an increase of res from 72di to 300dpi.

We have a near on 2 year old lil girl and another bub due in 5 months.
I want better low light performance for those indoor shots which I struggle to get with the S100fs.
I have a Nikon SB-26 that I do use for fill and off cam strobist work and again have some
stunning shots using this set-up. I just like natural light and candid images.

I'm stepping into the Nikon camp and will get either the D5000 or the D90.
I know which glass I want and that will be the 18-200mm VRII and a wide zoom either the
Tokina 11-16mm or 12-24mkII (prob the later so I get the AF) but the 11-16mm being f2.8
will prob be better for my low light requirements.
Then there is the Nikon AF-S 12-24mm f4 (2nd hand!) to consider.
With the 2 lens combo I know I have the range I need based on the types of shots I take.

Now it's just down to the body choice!
I have read a stack of reviews on the D5000 & D90.
The one thing that really is swaying my decision and i know most will cringe at my reason is, yes wait for it.....
the swivel screen on the back!
Having been used to these on the Fuji's I do use them enough to miss it if I was to get the D90.
I just find it such a useful addition when framing shots especially when shooting the kid at low/ground level.
Otherwise I'd be going commando style on the floor to frame her on the move, get up to chase her down
and repeat the process. Would be great exercise for the biggest looser show!!!
If I had the D90 and was trying to do shots on the move I just figure it would be a bit hit and miss!

I have seen the comments that people make about the D5000 being a pain with having to dig into the menu
to do any changes. I have had a play with the D5000 and both shutter speed & aperture is changeable on the fly
and you also have another button that you can assign a function to, ISO would be one choice.
So to me I have the basic functions I need to change at hand without diving into the menu.

The D5000 seems like it's a bit better then a entry level DSLR.
It has the same sensor, AF points, processor the list goes on from the D90. To me the quality of images will
be the same, it's just the extra buttons on the body that would make life just a tad easier.

The issue with no auto focus motor in the D5000 and restricting me to what glass I can get does not really effect me
as I know what lens I want and I (not at this stage or for a while) will I be obsessed with glass.

Also I figure that if I outgrow the D5000 sooner than I expect I sell the body and upgrade, the lenses I have
can be used on the next unit (unless I go full frame if my lotto numbers come in!!)

Another scenario that is pushing me towards the D5000, is that the missus can grab the came use either AUTO
or select one of the 19 preset modes and take some shots of me with the kid(s) for a change!!! LOL

But wait, there is the silent mode and the built in interval timer functions that the D90 doesn't have (98% sure of this!)
that are another nice touch.

As mentioned I went to JBHIFI, had a D90 the D5000 and my Fuji all side by side, SD cards loaded and did some
in shop test shots to take back home and load up on the iMac for comparison.
I was blown away by the focus speed and clarity in the viewfinder, which put my mind at ease knowing that I am
making the right move.

I'm looking at ~$1540 (grey market price) all up for
D5000, 18-200VRII and the Mack Diamond International 3 year warranty (transferable, good for resale of the body!)
which covers...
* Manufacturer Defects
* Impact Damage
* Sand/Grit Damage
* Accidental and Unintentional Abuse
* Mechanical Malfunctions
* Normal and Abnormal Wear and Tear

Best price I could get for local Aussie stock with 2 year Nikon manufacturer warranty only
was $1850.
So I save $300 and have peace of mind for 3 years!

Will get the wide angle option later which is around $700 (grey again)

So after all that, should I be concerned about going with the D5000 or for an extra coupla hundred learn to live without
the flippy screen and get the D90?

[I @ M]

Steamy, from reading your needs and priorities I would opt for the D90.
I will try to briefly summarise the reasons in point for,

LCD even though it is not hinged the D90 unit is a far better resolution unit to review and check photos with on the fly. Even though the D5000 is hinged, using it to try to frame crawling wriggling kiddies is not going to be a totally successful experience as auto focus in live view is severely hampered.

Viewfinder, the D90 is superior and even though you may have to get down on the floor commando style, once there you will find it easier to use than the D5000's smaller 'finder.

Controls, you have already noticed the easier to use system of the D90, I reckon they are worth it.
The D90 also has an auto mode and preset scenes that will allow the good lady of the house to capture your radiant good looks to perfection.

It will probably take you longer to outgrow the D90 compared to the D5000.

In short, the smallish extra outlay for the D90 is entirely justified, especially if you don't skimp on lens choices.

Just a couple of things to ponder in general though.
The D90 is in theory at the end of its lifespan in the model list and there "should" be a replacement available "soon". the new model will undoubtedly cost more but there may also be "run out" sales on old stock of existing D90 bodies.

A Mack 3 year warranty covers you for 3 years from the date of purchase, the first year of which is already covered by the manufacturers warranty.

[kiwi]

Andrew's spot on. The d5000's a toy. The D90 is a camera.

[old dog]

yep, go for the D90. Look on e bay, there is a 12-24 nikor coming up later today. Not mine either..cheers.

[arthurking83]

The other option to consider is:

why do you want/need the all-in-one type of zoom lens like an 18-200?

Good lens that it is, I think there are better kit lenses available for the focal lengths encompassed by the do-it-all 18-200VR.

So you could save yourself a bit of moola in getting the D90+18-105VR kit @ $1379 at DDP(dunno how much at DWI??) and then later on look for a second-hand 55-200VR for your long tele work.

Some small and possibly insignificant things to note about do-it-all lenses.
Generally speaking larger zoom multiplication factors will mean:
* elevated prices for the focal lengths available with that one single lens.
* lesser IQ ability
* focal length breathing.
What I've seen referred too as focal length breathing is the inability for the lens to maintain the FOV at the longest focal length available as you focus closer.
If you have intentions to shoot portraits using kit lenses like the 18-200VR, generally you want to get closer and closer to create at least some nicely blurred effect. But as you get closer the FOV widens so you need to step closer again, where the FOV widens again... etc.
From memory the 18-200VR has a FOV equivalency to 135mm at close focus distances. It's technically still considered to be a 200mm lens at the long end, but that technical detail is only guaranteed at infinity focus.
(Also from memory!!) I think I'm sure in that the 55-200VR is much closer to the 200mm mark as you approach closer focused distances.

Of course there are many reasons to go with an all-in-one type zoom lens and that's versatility in having the right focal length at hand all the time, more portable and lighter traveling setup and so forth.

Second hand 55-200VR lenses should be easily had for about $200 or so(possibly less) and from briefly playing with I@M's copy a few years ago, it works rather well too.

If you want absoluteness in image quality comparisons between lenses, Photozone is a good resource to look into.

Of course everyone prioritizes the various aspects of gear selection differently, and trying to eke out slightly better IQ with lower priced, or kit/consumer level gear is one of my highest priorities.
Saving weight, and a single item solution has never been in one of my priorities.. says the person that drags 20kg's worth of 11 lenses and 2 camera bodies anywhere and everywhere.

[steamy]

Thanks for the replies and I'll take it all onboard!

Just a few items though, I have compared side by side the D5000 & D90 and to be honest
the viewfinder was much the same. I know the D90 is a diff setup a bit larger etc etc but coming from what I am used to, the D5000 is like stepping up to a HD plasma from an old 68cm CRT!!!!

Why the 18-200mm. So I don't need to have two lens that covers the same range!
I already want to get the wider option as mentioned so that already give me two lens
and I don't want a third.

The comment that the D5000 is a toy is a bit harsh really. How can it be with it being
the smaller uglier brother of the D90 & D300? Same family and background if you know what I mean.

"Viewfinder, the D90 is superior and even though you may have to get down on the floor commando style, once there you will find it easier to use than the D5000's smaller 'finder."

I still have to get 100kg off the ground to chase her down again...so ease of use is my point.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the comments and I do know the D90 is prob the better cam,
I know that I'll still be chuffed with the D5000 and the quality of shots will be on par with the D90.

My mind is not 100% made up yet and I think I will go and have another hands on look.

cheers all.

[kiwi]

Here...

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/recommended-cameras.htm

[steamy]

cheers for that Kiwi,
I have read Rockwell's reviews as well, but missed that one!
It makes me think that I'll make the right choice with the D5000!

I chose the 18-200VRII based on his reviews as well as he said that is prob his
best all round go anywhere do it all lens, coupled with the wides that I have mentioned.
I'll have another read on the lens recommendations on that page and consider the options again.
But still like the idea of just two lenses to cover my requirements.

thanks for having a look for me

beached as!

[arthurking83]

Just a quick glance, using my D70s compared to my D300:

I reckon the pentaprism vf in the D300 gives approx 1/2(maybe more??) stop better light through to the eye compared to the pentamirror in the D70s.

Will be more apparent with f/5.6 kit type lenses than with faster aperture lenses though.

One thing I don't think I can ever go back to, is a pentamirror vf design.

I can understand the reasoning behind the need for a hinged review screen though. Even tho I no longer chase kids along the floor, I do find myself shooting from angles too low for me to easily get low to the ground, so I bought a cheap right angle VF off ebay($30) about 3 years ago. And even though it's been to hell and back, it's still going too strong to warrant an upgrade to the vastly more expensive Nikon accessory(approx $250).

Funnily enough tho, the main reason I want to upgrade to the Nikon DR-6 VF adapter is because I've lost the Nikon specific adapter for it, and I have to use the Canon adapter now, as it's the only other adapter that fits it.. Of course it now has quality issues!
Mine is a very old design, and the newer ones I've seen on ebay look to have a better adapter design, more sturdy and secure, and therefore less easily lost.

As for the no AF with non AF-S lenses.. I wouldn't worry about that too much, as I think AF-S(type) lenses are far more manageable, with their instant manual over ride ability, compared to the clumsy manner in which you switch AF-D type lenses.

As Andrew also said too tho, having the higher resolution review screen may also help in critical focusing situations. The extra detail when using LiveView will be a real bonus when manually focusing.

If the feature list of the D5000 is enough to keep you happy, then the D5000 is then obviously the way to go. Having been there a long time ago, I won't skimp on features again, even if I think I won't use them all that much. But when you want to get a shot, and that bonus feature can make a difference in whether you get it or not(eg, exposure delay on the D90), it's annoying, and your attention gets focused away from the real issue... more/better lens acquisitions.. and diverted to better camera features.

Also if you haven't yet used Nikon's wireless CLS system, the D90 can act as a commander whereas the D5000 series can't. Can make a difference, and I generally tend to use my SB-800 in wireless slave mode on both the D70s and the D300. The flash output level is controllable and variable on the D90(and D300, but not on the D70s) and you can choose whether is adds (significantly) to the exposure, or not.

I always say if you can afford the better body now, get it now, unless you know you'll want to upgrade to an even better body in the future. You're posts/replies seem to indicate that you have no reason to upgrade to a Dxxx or Dx body in the immediate future. So in that case it makes more sense to have the better featured body now, that is if you think a D90 will fulfill your requirements in the foreseeable future.
If, on the other hand, the D5000 is only to get you by for the next year or two, and you plan to eventually upgrade to a Dxxx or Dx type body, then it does make sense NOT to invest in too much body now, and to leave that till the next round of expenditure(in a few years time).

[Nator]

I have a D90, and have used a friends D5000.
I struggled with the D5000's strange controls, which might make moving up to a better model a re-learning experience.

Also, my friend who has the D5000 is now looking for a higher end model after less than 12 months. There are some limiting factors on the D5000 that the D90 overcomes.

While i wouldn't class the D5000 as a toy, it's not something that i would like to use everyday.

Another benefit of the D90 is that it has built in focus motor in the body (D5000 doesn't) so you could buy pretty much any Nikon lens ever made, and it will auto focus on the D90. I have a few great lenses from ebay which were about 80 each. You can get a 70-300 lens from ebay for under 100 bucks. Also the D90 kit lenses usually go for about 150-200 each.

A quick eay search for Aussie sellers only gave this: NIKON D90 18-55 VR+70-300 Lens Kit - $1329

Thats a great price for a camera that will last you a very long time.

Cheers.
Brett

[steamy]

Arthurking83, "One thing I don't think I can ever go back to, is a pentamirror vf design."
I'm coming from a EVF that is used in the Fuji so you can imagine the huge
leap it is for me in regards to quality.
As I commented...like upgrading from a 68cm CRT to a 50" HD Plasma!!!!! LOL

[steamy]

Nikon's wireless CLS system on the D90.

Can I use this feature with my Nikon SB-26?
Does the CLS mean I can change all the settings of the flash on the D90 if that is the case?

cheers

[steamy]

Have found the answer...SB-26 NO
SB-900/800/6000 YES

google is my friend!

[amexav]

I am very new to photography, so cannot go into technicalities as much as the others have!

However, I was faced with the same decision only recently and went with the D90, mainly because of reviews I had read on the 'net and after have a play with both cameras in store. Nikon also have a $200 cashback deal on the D90 until the end of May. I went to Ted's cameras, haggled and got them to pricematch an Aussie authorised reseller for $1290 (body only). I got an extended warranty through Ted's for $80.

So the D90 with 3 year warranty after cashback has cost me $1170. I bought 50mm f1.8 to get me started for $170 grey. I am also thinking of getting the 18-200 VR but am waiting a little longer to see what I use the camera most for, which so far has also been for my newborn and 3-year old). I know it's going to take me a while to grow into the D90, but seeing as most of my money goes towards the children nowadays, I doubt I will be upgrading bodies every couple of years either!

Another benefit of the D90 is that it has built in focus motor in the body (D5000 doesn't) so you could buy pretty much any Nikon lens ever made, and it will auto focus on the D90. I have a few great lenses from ebay which were about 80 each. You can get a 70-300 lens from ebay for under 100 bucks. Also the D90 kit lenses usually go for about 150-200 each.

This was also another big factor, being able to buy a wider range of second hand lenses.

[steamy]

just ordered the D90 with 18-200VRII!!!!
should get it by Friday...can't wait

[arthurking83]

LOL!

I think ultimately you've done the right thing(getting the slightly better body at least)

if you do end up requiring the use of a right angled VF adapter, get a cheapie off ebay. The Nikon version is more solid for sure, but the fleabay ones work OK too.

[steamy]

Just an update.

I have now got my kit together and I'm a very happy man indeed.

Kit now includes.
Nikon D90
Nikon 18-200mmVRII
Nikon 35mm f1.8G - 2nd hand
Tokina 11-16mm f2.8
Lowepro flipside 300
Aftermarket stuff...
battery grip + 2 batteries
wireless remote
TR90 wired remote for interval timer
Phottix Aster Wireless Flash Trigger Set
some CPL's & 32gb class 6 SDHC card.
And Mackcam International Diamond Warranty for 3years for the D90 & 18-200
which covers me for manufacturer defects/breakage/damage/sand/water.

All up just about bang on $3000.
Money well spent me thinks!
3000 actuation's already!

2nd bub due in September and itching to get the 35mm fired up.
Have played around with it and love it.

Leaving for our honeymoon on Saturday and heading up to Kununurra
but a bit of bad news due to the unseasonal weather in the last week or so.
Our trip to Bungle Bungles is all but cancelled due to roads being closed.
Had so many plans for our overnighter.

Will probably end up doing scenic flights now of the Bungles and Mitchell Falls
plus if the weather keeps up should be a good chance to get some storm shots.

[steamy]

actually worked out to cost me ~$2500 as I sold
my old Fujifilm S100fs for $570.
So not a bad upgrade price.

[KevPride]

Well done I'm sure you will be happy, the D90 seems a very good camera.

Have you tried the Asters yet? keen to find out what others think before buying them.

[steamy]

Yes have used the Aster and for $27 it's great.
Tested the wireless range on it as well and got about 25m.
Nice and compact.
Purchased it as I found the slave set up on the SB26 although good was limited
to only getting triggered by the on cam flash. Which if you are out of the line of flash
you are stuffed.
With the Astor I can have wireless so not having to use on cam flash or if I want both
and use the off cam flash to fill and compliment I can set the Astor to light mode which
does the same as the SB26 built in slave.

very happy and well made too.