Nikon vs Canon vs Olympus Confusion?

[arthurking83]

Not having experience with every system and lens ever made, I've looked into this a while back and the real advantage is only in the super telephoto lens range.. I think beyond about 300mm or so.

The test is(should be?? ) quite easy to perform. Take a lens like the Sigma 150-500 which comes in an OS version for Canon/Nikon, but not Optically Stabilised for Pentax/Sony(or Olympus, if it exists)

Take many shots using both kinds of systems and the one that has a higher keeper ratio is better.

The argument that all lenses need to be stabilised over and again kind'a holds water a little in that, Canon and Nikon produce very cheap 'consumer lenses' in vast quantities with both VR(or IS) and non VR(or IS) and the added price seems to be about $100 or less, and the weight disadvantage is somewhere between 30g and 100g at most.
Technically there is no real(quanitifiable) cost advantage/disadvantage to either system. There are a few benefits in having it in the lens(as far as the future can tell) because there seems to be a notion that you can stabilise the lens on three axis(axes??) rather than just the two of horizontal and vertical, Canon have recently released a fore/aft stabilised macro lens.

Non super tele fast primes with VR/IS are a very rare breed as I see it ATM, with neither Nikon nor Canon offering say an 85mm f/1.4 with VR or IS(yet).

So far, all the evidence points to incompatibility issues in having in body stabilisation AND in lens stabilisation, so if Canon and Nikon produce stabilised bodies they'll almost certainly have a system where the in camera and in lens systems don't/can't clash. No reason for them not to produce stabilised cameras at some point in the future.

[Kym]

The point is that focal lengths change the way the stabilisation should run. Lens stabilisation caters to this.

Of course. Which is why Pentax asks for the FL when attaching a manual lens.
It detects the FL when needed on the Auto lenses.
One of the reasons Canikon are stuck with lens based systems is that they started SR/IS with film cameras.

BTW http://www.photographybay.com/2010/0...stabilization/
In body for Canon soon - maybe they have seen the light

[Kym]

Further

Longer lenses necessitate much greater movement; 300 mm lenses would have to move the sensor about 5.5 mm (nearly 1/4”) to achieve the correction Canon gets with its IS system at the same focal length. This degree of sensor movement is beyond the range of current technology.

Is patently incorrect.
If the sensor has fast solenoids (simplistically) gross movements are not needed, just fast one to compensate as the shutter is pressed.
The solid state gyros do the tracking and the sensor is moved only slightly during the exposure.
Which also means the battery drain with a sensor based system is much less than a lens based system.
(Less mass being moved less often.)

http://www.kallepahajoki.net/2009/01...s-vc-compared/

Now let me spoil the results: K200D wins.

Surprised? I was, and I know how good the Pentax stabilization is. The take home message: Don’t take anyone’s word over fact. Don’t believe that the stabilization system of Pentax, Olympus, Sony, Nikon or Canon would be better than that of the others because someone tells you so. Look at the tests and don’t waste your time worrying about half-stop differences.

And the K-7 and K-x have an improved SR system!
All I'm saying is that the in body SR is as good as the lens based systems.
To say the one is superior is just wrong.

[Babu]

[QUOTE=FriedChicken;553801]
newer ones).

However - Canon is generally cheaper (although as aforementioned, comparing directly is hard to do, the 'ranks' overlaps here and there) as their bodies have no motors for focusing and the lenses don't come with lens hoods or pouches.

Nikon comes with hoods and pouches for lenses, but are a little more expensive.

Hi Fried Chicken,
Some clarification on this point.
Canon L Series lenses come with lens hoods and pouches - the larger telephoto primes come with hard cases. Some L's have built in hoods.
Hoods and pouches can be bought for the non L lenses.
Not having the cost of the manufacturer's pouch included in the lens purchase suits some users because they prefer to buy pouches with more padding from Lowepro (or other). Hence, they haven't paid for pouches they don't intend to use.

[gabby]

This debate is great-it doesn't necessarily clarify things but it does educate!

[Babu]

Damn straight ,Gabby!
If your eyes, ears, nose & mouth are open, you're bound to be sensing something. However, if your finger is not on the trigger, you are bound to miss the shot (wise old Confusion say).

[Danylu]

You can't go wrong with either Canon or Nikon. But secretly I despise the button layout of Canon systems

For one, the lens selection of both sides are simply huge especially with lots of 3rd party support.

[arthurking83]

Actually being a dedicated and hardened Nikon person now(I find the menu button layout easy and intuitive on any Nikon body now), I found Canon's layout a lot more confusing.
having briefly handled a Pentax K10 maybe.. can't remember what that(young) member used it was 4odd years or more ago.. but I found it Nikon like and inutitive. the controls seemed to make sense.
Then just about a year ago, I played for a few hours with a low end Sony, once again cant' remember which model exactly but A300/350 seems to ring a bell. Once again I found it felt immediately comfy and easy to adjust just about any element of the camera from AutoISO to shutter to aperture.
The other week whilst at Wilson's Prom, I had Canon-itis once again. Met a young couple when i pulled up at a lookout. The sun was setting, they were already there, and I came out with tripods filters and fussed over composition for a few minutes and then got up and lowered the tripd even more and seemed to take for ever. The woman was using newish/latest model low end Canon. They both went super quiet and once I clicked away my frames, we stopped and chatted, and I explained to them some of the really basic basics of photography.. how to adjust aperure value to achieve a desired effect(sunburst at something like f/16 or so). There was no way on God's Earth I could figure out how to set Aperture AND Shutter speed at the same time using manual mode. They had no idea on how to set the camera up, and when I explained to them set the aperture too.... I thought Aha! OK.. they're newbie auto using tourists too.. took me at least 5-10 mins to realise that I wasn't going to set the camera to the settings values I wanted them to try and even if I did eventually achieve that aim, it was going to be well after dark.. which is exactly what happened. Sun dipped below the horizon in the time it took me to try to figure it out(which I didn't). But we did stand there for a short while chatting.

I'm likely to believe that if you go with:

Pentax, you will always wonder why you chose that brand, and why you can't have access to an 85/1.4(soon about to change, by Sigma).

Nikon, you'll always wonder why you chose the brand with the most expensive DSLR lenses(best kit/consumer lenses, and spend your money on third party offerings for better value for money)

Canon, why on earth do they need auto modes on their top end cameras, do I go for the 70-200/4, with IS, without IS, or the f/2.8 ..... with IS or without IS.. with gravy or without gravy

Seriously tho, really makes no difference in the short term what and who you go with. All the lenses you'll ever need wil be available, and it's only when you become addicted to some specialist field that the camera you chose may become a limitation due to the selection of lenses available.

If you think you're going to get to the point where you're going to need specialist type lenses such as fast telephoto prime lenses or tilt shift lenses ... costing $5K or more.. go with Canon or Nikon.

if you just want to shoot general all purpose everyday kind of images, Pentax may be an overall cheaper way into photography and a more direct path to a higher end body.. but with a much less chance of going higher without outlaying vastly more money on more gear.

[Adrian Owerko]

OK.. IS - VR in a lens may have the slight edge over in body SR from Pentax and Sony! But the newest SR DSLR's will out preform the 1st generation IS - VR glass from Nikon and Canon! So if you are willing to replace your IS -VR glass from Nikon & Canon ever new version release, to keep up with the IS - VR tech! Were with Pentax & Sony all you have to do is upgrade the body! Tell me what is the cheaper option is?

[Anne1958]

all DSLRs are capable of producing good shots so its just a matter of learning how to use what ever you buy. canon and nikon are most popular but other brands will work for you just as well... maybe look into what lenses you will be wanting and base your decision around that.

couldn't agree more with you David.

Hi Gail, my advice would be not to rush, do your research, study different Brands and read lots of reviews (Cameras & Lens) .... you can find quite a few here,

http://www.dpreview.com/

also, apart from looking at the many fine shots here on AP, go to the Official Camera sites of Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Pentax, etc and see if they have Galleries (most of them do) where you can see many more fine examples of what their Cameras are capable of producing.

[gabby]

A friend at work told me also to check out this site called DPReview, which has so-called unbiased reviews of all the different cameras..are any of us unbiased? So with 2 bits of advice int he one day- I'll go check it now.Thanks Annette!

[I @ M]

I would not call DPreview totally unbiased.
After all it is owned by a huge company with vested interests in selling cameras etc. ---------

I would be more than happy to give you my unbiased opinion on brands --- but not in public because people would start howling that I am biased.

[Nic076]

hi gabby, I have an Olympus e510. Its a good start but has not given me what I want. Noise kicks into shots very early, the lenses are often more expensive than its canon & nikon counterparts and at times it has not given as good a shot as I would have hoped (though that also might be be). I am aiming to change brands later this year, but the other downside is the resale isn't very good. Good luck in choosing.

[gabby]

What is noise that I hear so much about and how does it manifest-is it lots of dark spots in a photo???? - what causes it?

[I @ M]

Gabby, the sensor in a digital camera is an amplification device, similar to how a stereo system or an iPod makes sound from electronic "data". When all the parameters of a well exposed picture are not met and in particular when parts of or the whole picture is underexposed and then one tries to bring back detail in those dark areas, graininess appears. The term noise seems to have been applied because the sensor and processor in cameras work as amplifiers and in the same way that over amplified music is bad and often "scratchy" the grainy areas of pictures are described as noisy.

There are quite a few factors affecting how noise is produced and some camera manufacturers have managed to get their sensors and processors working better than other makers to control "noise" especially at high ISO values ( heavily amplified light sensitivity ) and what is being done in 2010 is so far removed from 2005 as to be fairly astounding.

A quick attachment showing fairly typical noise, both for the make and model of the camera and the overall exposure of the shot. The dirty grainy areas within the circles ( and surrounding areas ) is the "dreaded noise".

[Beej]

Heya Gabby and others. I spent OH SO LONG going through this sort of decision. In the end I went with olympus for a few reasons, and I feel us oly's need to speak up every now and then in the face of Cannik superiority Firstly, I held all the cameras on offer, including the ridiculously expensive ones. Ergonomics play a big part for me and I wanted to know that my investment would feel good in my hands and make me want to use it. Lens support... now nikon and cannon supply some unbelieveable optics... they also supply some astronomical price tags. I found olympus lenses to be exceptionally high quality and with very few reports, if any, of faults. The crop factor of the sensor was a plus to me in the way that I don't have to lug HUGE lenses around to get the length or DOF supplied by many of the much smaller and lighter zuiko lenses. I say many with a little irony, be very aware that while olympus offers some premium optics at very reasonable prices (in many instances the optics are better glass than the cameras themselves can use) they still offer a very limited range. Also, should you want to buy second hand glass at any time, olympus isn't your brand, we tend to hold onto our lenses. Nikon and Canon have a MUCH larger second hand market in the lens department (many pros also cycle through their gear at a high rate and sell the cast offs on ebay quite regularly, needless to say, said pros are very rarely olympus users) Among many other reasons I came up with for my decision the two I found most compelling were the build quality of both camera body (my friends refer to my E3 as ' li'l tanky') and lenses AND that little fuzzy feeling I get when out and about, seeing so many canon or nikon neck straps, knowing that I'm in the minority. A very small minded approach to such a big financial decision, I know but hey, you have to enjoy the little things. If you got through all of that, Gabby, please take one thing away from my experience. Choose the camera that you just feel right holding. It may not be the best gear for you at the time but if you like it, given time, and those occasions when you take that shot that you feel extra proud of, you'll end up loving it. Good luck.

[gabby]

Well explained, I@M - which manufacturers do you consider better at noise reduction in the sensors and processors so far?

[kiwi]

Nikon is #1 in noise at this stage, D300, D90, D3, D3s in that order. Each is about a stop better than the last and imho a stop better than the Canon equivalents

[I @ M]

N, C, P.

Now everyone will call me biased and start jumping up and down again.

[gabby]

Thanks Beej-good points-I must admit when I hold a Nikon,it doesn't feel as comfortable as the Canon. I also remember times when I didn't want to cart all my old Pentax gear due to the heavy weight when you walked long trails.