Do we value the local camera shop?

[Redgum]

maybe canon should look into this and start helping out the smaller blokes.

People keep saying this but both Canon and Nikon have already "looked" into it. Who do you think supplies the online/grey market? Numbers are everything and if I can sell 10 units and you only 1 who do you think they will supply? Both of course!

[OzzieTraveller]

G'day all

Although I started this thread early this morning ~ and thanks for all who have made comments ~ several weeks ago I was in Townsville and popped into the chain store that has bright yellow bags ... to look at a new Nikon 20x ultrazoom job

Now each of you has a camera dial that has P A S M or something very similar upon it

I asked the girl in the cameras area "I presume this camera has PASM?"
She looked at me as though I was an idiot ~ she didn't have a clue as to what I was talking about - and her face said that she didn't want to know either

A young bloke came along and I asked him the same thing - he went to the computer terminal and started to read off the specs - mpx, zoom, etc etc and price ... but nothing about its non-auto capabilities. I didn't recommend either the shop or the camera to the person who had asked for my 2-bob's worth in the first place

Regards, Phil

[Big Pix]

Now each of you has a camera dial that has P A S M or something very similar upon it

Regards, Phil

....... now hands up all that know what " P A S M " would be.......

[Ozzi Paul]

I have only ever purchased camera gear from a bricks & mortar shop. (Camera House, Photo Supplies) Although the closest one to me is 130km away. I always ask if they can do a better price and they normally do even though I don't mind paying a bit more for quality service, but they have gone close to some online prices. They normally get my stuff in pretty quickly to, 1 or 2 days is not to bad I think. The only thing is that they don't hold a lot of stock like the online stores so there at a bit of a disadvantage there, and the don't have much for Pentax. Still, I will be sticking with them for a bit yet.

[Analog6]

Well, yesterday I went to the local camera shop in Tweed Heads for a small purchase and was treated in such a rude, arrogant and high handed manner by the owner that I just walked out. And I am a huge supporter of local shops wherever I can.

Since the store changed hands a couple of years ago the service has gone from friendly and knowledgeable to an 'I know what you need and don't argue with me' attitude. And the guy is totally different if men or younger women go in - I've seen him in action. Well, that was my last shot at 'giving him a go'.

[Steve Axford]

....... now hands up all that know what " P A S M " would be.......

Never heard of it.

I looked it up on the internet and Wikipedia lists the following (in this order)
- Parrot assembly language
- Pima Air & Space Museum, in Tucson, Arizona, United States
- Porsche Active Suspension Management

And last, and least

- Program mode, aperture priority, shutter priority, and manual modes on the mode dial in SLR photographic cameras

By the way, my camera doesn't have a mode dial. I've never missed it.

[Big Pix]

Never heard of it.

I looked it up on the internet and Wikipedia lists the following (in this order)
- Parrot assembly language
- Pima Air & Space Museum, in Tucson, Arizona, United States
- Porsche Active Suspension Management

....... no wonder I have trouble with exposure and focus.......

[Big Pix]

By the way, my camera doesn't have a mode dial. I've never missed it.

........ now would that be a mode Dial or mood Dial...... now I am even more confused.....

[KevPride]

Well, yesterday I went to the local camera shop in Tweed Heads for a small purchase and was treated in such a rude, arrogant and high handed manner by the owner that I just walked out. And I am a huge supporter of local shops wherever I can.

Since the store changed hands a couple of years ago the service has gone from friendly and knowledgeable to an 'I know what you need and don't argue with me' attitude. And the guy is totally different if men or younger women go in - I've seen him in action. Well, that was my last shot at 'giving him a go'.

I have had the same experience in many shops, because I have grey hair they assume I have no idea what I want or have any knowledge - I refuse to put up with their BS.

A recent experience I had with a well known SA Camera retailer - I went in with my money after getting a quote from them via Email - no stock? when would it arrive I asked, "not sure we have had an order in for some time!" I will ring you when it comes in - well 3 weeks later he rings me to say it has arrived - in the mean time I picked up the same Pentax K7 camera from their retail arm 19 days earlier.

If the stores think this style of service is acceptable then they deserve to disappear.

[jeffde]

Bought my first 400D from the local camera store but every purchse since has been online. Drop in and get some gear, a slingshot bag, cleaners etc. But they just can't compete on price.
I have friends in the courier business in Orange it's booming Why
Online retail and Ebay.
I would never go into retail anymore, its to damn hard to compete...

[Redgum]

I would never go into retail anymore, its to damn hard to compete...

So you've been completely sucked in Jeff? Next thing your local retailer closes and your online source decides to charge an excess fee for those without local competition. Don't laugh, we've seen it with banks, food chains (online shopping) and even the very small items, music (iTunes come to mind).
It doesn't matter how it's done the whole idea is to get rid of the competition and become a monopoly (I think of Telstra and many of their online services - you now pay to have your bill sent to you)
The only thing that's keeping online traders honest at the moment is fierce competition but that will die soon as things become regulated.
Me. I'd be pushing to keep the local supplier in town even for a small bounty because eventually you'll pay through the nose without him.
PS: How do you get your online supplier to come to a club meeting to speak? They're invisible, no?

[Steve Axford]

So you've been completely sucked in Jeff? Next thing your local retailer closes and your online source decides to charge an excess fee for those without local competition. Don't laugh, we've seen it with banks, food chains (online shopping) and even the very small items, music (iTunes come to mind).
It doesn't matter how it's done the whole idea is to get rid of the competition and become a monopoly (I think of Telstra and many of their online services - you now pay to have your bill sent to you)
The only thing that's keeping online traders honest at the moment is fierce competition but that will die soon as things become regulated.
Me. I'd be pushing to keep the local supplier in town even for a small bounty because eventually you'll pay through the nose without him.
PS: How do you get your online supplier to come to a club meeting to speak? They're invisible, no?

Strange argument. We used to have much more expensive cameras and the online stores brought the price down. Now you argue that the only thing keeping the price low is the local stores. So why was the price high when there were only local stores? It doesn't make any sense.

[rellik666]

I doubt that very much! The thing with the internet is that it is a truely global market and that will always keep the prices down.

I agree that B&M shops need to hybridise, provide the ease of the internet with a physical location. However there location need not be on the high street, but somewhere that customers can visit or call.

They may not match the grey importers, but there is a business for a local shop with the personal advice and experience, plus the ease of the internet.

Unfrotunately for them, I have found some of these grey importers and internet shops to be more than just a price and have been very helpful. Not all but some!

What the answer is I don't know, but to the lay person Price will always be driver, especially in the high volume entry level market!

Roo

[Redgum]

Strange argument. We used to have much more expensive cameras and the online stores brought the price down. Now you argue that the only thing keeping the price low is the local stores. So why was the price high when there were only local stores? It doesn't make any sense.

G'day Steve, the answer is simple, competition. Online suppliers provide competition in abundance but can't really provide service as we would expect. Whilst the local service points are around online prices will be really good. Once they go the pressure is off and prices go up. Just flip through eBay for any product that doesn't have an offline presence and you'll see what I mean.
Back in the old days everything was more expensive because Australia is such a small market. These days we're part of the global community and enjoy the benefits but that's only while we have local manufacture and retail.

[MarkW]

So you've been completely sucked in Jeff? Next thing your local retailer closes and your online source decides to charge an excess fee for those without local competition. Don't laugh, we've seen it with banks, food chains (online shopping) and even the very small items, music (iTunes come to mind).
It doesn't matter how it's done the whole idea is to get rid of the competition and become a monopoly (I think of Telstra and many of their online services - you now pay to have your bill sent to you)
The only thing that's keeping online traders honest at the moment is fierce competition but that will die soon as things become regulated.
Me. I'd be pushing to keep the local supplier in town even for a small bounty because eventually you'll pay through the nose without him.
PS: How do you get your online supplier to come to a club meeting to speak? They're invisible, no?

Thats the biggest load of rubbish so far printed.

Who cares if the local retailler shuts down, it wont and cant change the economy of the online sales. If your online shop wants to charge some fee then go to another online retailler - this is the key, there are plenty of them and the competition is real.

Bricks and motar shops base their pricing on what the market will bear and it has nothing to do with costs of product and overheads. Banks charge fees because they're in oligopoly situations or their customers are locked to them for a number of resons including laziness. As for iTunes you are paying for a service and the ability to get just what you want ie parts of an album, not the whole lot.

If you want to talk about Telstra then you need to also say that Telstra was formed as a monopoly by the Government selling a government owned corporation which had no competition by the fact that it was Government controlled operations.

Regulation - what rubbish is this, who talking about regulation of online trade and how would you "regulate" it. Import and taxation regulations already exist what else would be introduced. Your post is just blatant scare-mungering

Pay through the nose without a local retailler - no - pay through the nose at the local retailler. If he cant compete with other forms of sales well then I'm sorry thats just tuff.

Lastly I wouldn't want a local retailler at a camera club as all he sees are dollar signs and really has nothing to offer of value.

[Redgum]

I'm sorry Mark that you have no understanding of economics at all. Others comprehend and history is the proof.

[MarkW]

I'm sorry Mark that you have no understanding of economics at all. Others comprehend and history is the proof.

Wrong

But I'm not going to argue - its just not worth it - and the opions of others in this thread only confirm my views. I am yet to see anybody confirm yours.

[Steve Axford]

G'day Steve, the answer is simple, competition. Online suppliers provide competition in abundance but can't really provide service as we would expect. Whilst the local service points are around online prices will be really good. Once they go the pressure is off and prices go up. Just flip through eBay for any product that doesn't have an offline presence and you'll see what I mean.
Back in the old days everything was more expensive because Australia is such a small market. These days we're part of the global community and enjoy the benefits but that's only while we have local manufacture and retail.

Name a few? I can buy lots of things that have no local presence here. I do it with many things and there is still online competition.

[rellik666]

^^

[Bally]

Please excuse the clumsy copy and paste, but I haven't worked out the how to make quotes work yet

MARKW Thats the biggest load of rubbish so far printed.

That's a bit strong and your following comments didn't really support your assertation that well

MARKW Who cares if the local retailler shuts down, it wont and cant change the economy of the online sales. If your online shop wants to charge some fee then go to another online retailler - this is the key, there are plenty of them and the competition is real.

The economy of the the online shops may not change if the local retailer shutsdown, but there is no logical connection here with who cares. I and a number of others care if the local shop closes, because I want to look feel and test a new camera. get advice service and support from them. As a number of others have said, the local shop could also have a online capability and reflect the savings from selling in an online environment.

MARKW Bricks and motar shops base their pricing on what the market will bear and it has nothing to do with costs of product and overheads. Banks charge fees because they're in oligopoly situations or their customers are locked to them for a number of resons including laziness. As for iTunes you are paying for a service and the ability to get just what you want ie parts of an album, not the whole lot.

Everyone charges what the market will bear, unless they are selling into a competive market, that is why unique items sell for so much, and commodity items so little. Competition is the ultimate market force. Banks "may" be an oligopoly, but again when funds are easy to access, small players come into the market and drives costs down. again competition.


MarkW If you want to talk about Telstra then you need to also say that Telstra was formed as a monopoly by the Government selling a government owned corporation which had no competition by the fact that it was Government controlled operations.

If you want to use Telstra as an example of a monopoly, then perhaps it is not the best example. There are plenty of monopolies and monopolistic businesses out there. For example, Standard Oil, Bell Telephone, both broken up. Microsoft invested in Apple to ensure that they didn't reach 95% market share and become a victim of monopoly laws.


MarkW Regulation - what rubbish is this, who talking about regulation of online trade and how would you "regulate" it. Import and taxation regulations already exist what else would be introduced. Your post is just blatant scare-mungering

Something like banning australians from buying from overseas sites? They already have the laws in place to block sites if they did this. Not likely I admit, but possible, grey marketing is illegal in some countries.

MarkW Pay through the nose without a local retailler - no - pay through the nose at the local retailler. If he cant compete with other forms of sales well then I'm sorry thats just tuff.

As I said in an earlier post the local retailer may or may not be able to compete, but under the current structure it is disadvantaged by manufacturer selling tactics, not the selling opportunites.

MarkW Lastly I wouldn't want a local retailler at a camera club as all he sees are dollar signs and really has nothing to offer of value.

Really silly, I don't think there is much of a need to comment on that


So in summary, local retailers can offer online services as cheaply as a big company, but also offer unique capabilities above and beyond online busnesses. They can't buy as cheaply as high volume sellers, but this could be addressed as it is in other industries by the sales model of the vendors. If it was they could then compete, and have a full service offering business and a no service online business and even a third model that involves both.

Allowing the little retailer to be run out of business would be bad for the manufacturers in the long run.
Monopolies grow out of unregulated markets and are broken up in regulated markets.
Laws and regulations change with time, experience and circumstance.
I think your agression and lack of understanding about marketing and economics are displayed here.