Olympus future direction

[olympuse620]

I don't do a lot of live view shooting. What is over heating sensor, screen, card?? Seems a bit odd.

Graeme

Don't know what is overheating it just comes up with the red warning indicator on the screen, the manual does not say exactly what is hot just that you should turn the camera off for a time before continuing.

[Scotty72]

It's a shame that there is a persistant critic that seems to love to come in and bag Olympus when he only ever experienced a 10m pixel lower model camera (E520 & not the E3) or earlier & knows nothing about the 12.3m pixel models & the improvements that have been made to each emerging model & the capablilites of them. He comments on all Olympus models as if he knows all, but unfortunely he seems to know little of the capabilities of Olympus cameras. It's obvious there is some bitter resentment of not being satisfied with what he had with Olympus gear & I don't believe he used them with appropriate settings & got poor results because of it. Unless he can offer helpful & knowledgeable comments on Olympus gear, then I suggest he stick to making comments on Canon stuff in the Canon section. He is entitled to his opinion, but when it's just negative ignorance, then I would ask him to keep his opinion to himself.

Ross

Gee! I wonder who this post is about, it is hard as you have used your powers in order to be as subtle as a brick through a plate glass window.

It is a shame that there is at least one poster on this forum who seems to think no-one is entitled to a conversing opinion. Who could that be? That would be YOU.

Now, should you have been referring to me (of course if you were, you would have been polite - not underhanded), I did state that it was my opinion.

I also stated that I have owned several Olympus cameras in my time and was very happy with them. In fact, the first camera I owned (not just borrowing dad's Olympus) was an Olympus. I took it to my school formal (a million years ago) and took a photo with the girl I loved/lusted after (see attached - yes, high school was an awkward time... but, I have fond memories with that camera) I also mentioned/implied in good light - they are at least as good - if not better than my Canon 40d. (gee, aren't I a terrible hater of Olympus)

Yes, the e-520 was my first DSLR. However, your suggestion that I pay near $1000 (at the time, for the twin lens kit) and put up with rubbish is offensive.

Do you do that? Pay $1000 an electronic good and simply accept rubbish or do you expect a quality product for your hard earned... maybe you are super rich and money means nothing to you. For me, I expect my $1000 to buy me a certain amount of quality.

How much? Well, at a very similar time, a beautiful lady friend of mine bought a Canon 450d. These are about the same level of camera. It's noise at >400 ISO is exponetially better. I think I have every right to be miffed that Olympus sold me a (at that price point / compared to its Canon equiv) dud.


Now, you may say, I should have done my homework before I paid up. You'd be right. Hopefully, my posts (which you would deny me the right to make) will help someone else in their homework - which you would deny them too.

Plain fact is, compared to larger sensors, at high noise - 4/3 is crap - IMO - sorry.

Sure, they are probably getting much better as high ISO stuff- but so too are Can-nikon etc.

I think it will be a cold day in hell when 4/3 will outperform the others - as far as I understand it - it is in the physics of light collection.

Having said that, if you are happy with your 4/3, good for you .. unlike you, I will not label you - accuse you of being an Olympus-a-phile... please shoot and post away with your praise...

Scotty

PS. The fact you stated that they are moving towards larger sensors in their high end cameras is great - however, it seems to me that even Olympus have recognised they have a problem and are now setting out to fix it. I hope they do fix it - the market needs more than the big two (plus others). The more big players, the more competition. I hope Olympus makes a super-dooper model and they become the big third.

[Scotty72]

Sorry for possibly burning your retinas

[ricktas]

It's a shame that there is a persistant critic that seems to love to come in and bag Olympus when he only ever experienced a 10m pixel lower model camera (E520 & not the E3) or earlier & knows nothing about the 12.3m pixel models & the improvements that have been made to each emerging model & the capablilites of them. He comments on all Olympus models as if he knows all, but unfortunely he seems to know little of the capabilities of Olympus cameras. It's obvious there is some bitter resentment of not being satisfied with what he had with Olympus gear & I don't believe he used them with appropriate settings & got poor results because of it. Unless he can offer helpful & knowledgeable comments on Olympus gear, then I suggest he stick to making comments on Canon stuff in the Canon section. He is entitled to his opinion, but when it's just negative ignorance, then I would ask him to keep his opinion to himself.

There is a rumour that is suggesting a possible increase in sensor size will be in the next top model but will still be usable with all the 4/3's lenses & new primes will give a larger image circle to suit the larger sensor & this rumour could fit into the suggestions of modular design (or adapters) as well. These are all wild rumours but what Olympus will probably be bringing out or introducing at Photokina will be improved & with some nice added features. We will just have to wait & see. I would like to buy some more 4/3's lenses except my money won't stretch that far just yet, but I wouldn't hesitate if funds allowed.

Ross

Ross, this is bordering on being a personal attack, you are getting stuck into a member, rather than discussing his views (which he is entitled to). I suggest you re-asses your approach on this site.

[olympuse620]

Scotty you're welcome back from the darkside when Olympus do punch out the world first 1meg ISO. lol

[Ross the fiddler]

Gee! I wonder who this post is about, it is hard as you have used your powers in order to be as subtle as a brick through a plate glass window.

It is a shame that there is at least one poster on this forum who seems to think no-one is entitled to a conversing opinion. Who could that be? That would be YOU.

Now, should you have been referring to me (of course if you were, you would have been polite - not underhanded), I did state that it was my opinion.

I also stated that I have owned several Olympus cameras in my time and was very happy with them. In fact, the first camera I owned (not just borrowing dad's Olympus) was an Olympus. I took it to my school formal (a million years ago) and took a photo with the girl I loved/lusted after (see attached - yes, high school was an awkward time... but, I have fond memories with that camera) I also mentioned/implied in good light - they are at least as good - if not better than my Canon 40d. (gee, aren't I a terrible hater of Olympus)

Yes, the e-520 was my first DSLR. However, your suggestion that I pay near $1000 (at the time, for the twin lens kit) and put up with rubbish is offensive.

Do you do that? Pay $1000 an electronic good and simply accept rubbish or do you expect a quality product for your hard earned... maybe you are super rich and money means nothing to you. For me, I expect my $1000 to buy me a certain amount of quality.

How much? Well, at a very similar time, a beautiful lady friend of mine bought a Canon 450d. These are about the same level of camera. It's noise at >400 ISO is exponetially better. I think I have every right to be miffed that Olympus sold me a (at that price point / compared to its Canon equiv) dud.


Now, you may say, I should have done my homework before I paid up. You'd be right. Hopefully, my posts (which you would deny me the right to make) will help someone else in their homework - which you would deny them too.

Plain fact is, compared to larger sensors, at high noise - 4/3 is crap - IMO - sorry.

Sure, they are probably getting much better as high ISO stuff- but so too are Can-nikon etc.

I think it will be a cold day in hell when 4/3 will outperform the others - as far as I understand it - it is in the physics of light collection.

Having said that, if you are happy with your 4/3, good for you .. unlike you, I will not label you - accuse you of being an Olympus-a-phile... please shoot and post away with your praise...

Scotty

PS. The fact you stated that they are moving towards larger sensors in their high end cameras is great - however, it seems to me that even Olympus have recognised they have a problem and are now setting out to fix it. I hope they do fix it - the market needs more than the big two (plus others). The more big players, the more competition. I hope Olympus makes a super-dooper model and they become the big third.

I'm sorry Scotty, but I was seeing comments on Olympus cameras that were not considering the improvements of the later models & my feelings got away with me. Sorry.

In using the E520 I did have to stick within it's limited ISO good range but still found it to be effective for long exposures as this example shows that was actually taken with ISO 400 as well as Auto Gradation On (shadow adjustment) & the noise in the dark sky is not too bad considering the increase to the shadows is on top of ISO 400.
P5264336awb.jpg
It is always best to stick to ISO 100 for night/long exposures (IMO if the timing allows) but I was in a class with instruction to use ISO 400.
There is a point for Olympus users to remember when using long exposures & that is to not to only make sure that auto noise control is selected in the menu but to have the shutter drive selected for single shot & not continuous shutter as it cancels the noise control.

I now use the E30 with an increase in ISO range & a lighter AA filter than the E520 & more resolution but is also a higher level model (with all it's added features) & is on a similar level to the Canon D50. The E620 & PEN cameras are all producing better & lower noise images than the previous 10m pixels (the E3 was good though) & Olympus is continually improving.

I've seen advice that it's good to get a nice body, but better to get good lenses as bodies will be updated & can be replaced in the future to go with the lenses.

All in all, it's just my opinion.

Ross

[Ross the fiddler]

A correction to my last post which should read;
There is a point for Olympus users to remember when using long exposures & that is to not to only make sure that auto noise reduction is selected in the menu but to have the shutter drive selected for single frame & not continuous shutter as it cancels the noise reduction.

[lanegd01]

It sounds like sensor over heating. So unless you are doing lots of continuous shooting, I suspect that this is a fault.

[swifty]

Perhaps the contention is that the improvements in newer Olympus sensors have rendered previous user experience less relevant. Of course everone can still have their opinions and it looks to be just a misunderstanding.
But it does appear that the gap between 4/3 and APS-C is narrowing though not on par. FF's still got a significant advantage. IMHO though noise will become less and less relevant as NR techonology improves and the 'look' of larger sensors become more and more important.
But I am very impressed with both Olympus and panasonic. Since I'm not a high ISO shooter I do appreciate their innovations and out of box thinking. I reckon if I'm not invested in Nikon it'd be 4/3. But the lack of larger sensor option atm bothers me which is why the rumours of square sensors and the 1/2X wide converter with a 1 stop exposure advantage are very encouraging and exciting.
Photokina and the possible unveiling of GH2, GF2, E3 modular succesor would be one heck of a show.

[dbax]

mmm well having been a Oly owner I'm inclined to agree with Scotty, but I do miss those superb Zuiko lenses....sigh

[Scotty72]

mmm well having been a Oly owner I'm inclined to agree with Scotty, but I do miss those superb Zuiko lenses....sigh

I agree. They are brillant lenses... Sharp as a tack and vivid beyond belief.

Olympus, for me, are a bit like Ansett. Once they gave me a really shoddy experience. I then chose to move away from that carrier.

Of course, my hex on Ansett ultimately led to the demise and financial ruin of the company.

But, unlike Ansett, I wish Olympus well and have not cursed it.

Scotty

[piXelatedEmpire]

Of course, my hex on Ansett ultimately led to the demise and financial ruin of the company.

But, unlike Ansett, I wish Olympus well and have not cursed it.

Well I'd hope not, I only recently bought into Oly DSLR gear in January!

[griffljg]

It was the Olympus lack of direction that caused me, when a colleague asked for advice on a camera for his wife, to point him in the direction of a Nikon D90.

He took my advice, and reports that his wife is very happy with her camera.

[lanegd01]

It was the Olympus lack of direction that caused me, when a colleague asked for advice on a camera for his wife, to point him in the direction of a Nikon D90.

He took my advice, and reports that his wife is very happy with her camera.

I don't think Oly has a lack of direction. It is clearly focussed on m4/3 into the near future and most likely modular camers in the longer term. The latest 4/3 ( e620 e30) cameras and lens are more than adequate for their selected market. Will we see an Oly full pro 4/3 camera? I don't think so, that ground is too well held by Nikon and Canon and at a price point that Oly will have difficulty matching given the R & D costs. I love my e620 it still does what I purchased it to do - take superb shots with vivid natural colours unsurpassed (IMHO) by any other brand.

[peterb666]

There is talk of a modular camera based around the MFT mount with interchangeable lenses and other bits. Might be a pipe dream.

[banj911]

First, the admission, I use Olympus and love it.
I use an E-500 (ancient by current standards) with a variety of lenses (9-18mm, 12-60mm, 50-200mm).
I found that I too was becoming worried by the lack of high ISO capabilities and bought an E-30, hoping for an improvement. There was undeniably an improvement in high ISO abilities, but the low ISO performance was lacking, providing substantially more shadow noise and softness at ISO 100-200 which is where I shoot most of my images. So I sold it and bought a 12-60mm instead.
I got to keep a camera I enjoy using more and a stellar lens to use with it.
I guess what I am trying to get at is the lack of high ISO performance compared to other brands may not be that much of an issue, especially if you don't shoot at high ISO much anyway. Also with the advent of new and always improving noise reduction software the odd image with noise problems can be easily dealt with.
I sometimes wonder, what will be the new ISO 400 in 10 years? Will we hear 'Don't buy camera X, there is visible noise at ISO 128000, you can't take clean pictures under moonlight!' Sometimes noise/grain can be good.

On another note, I hope Olympus come up with some innovations with their new cameras. The modular system being touted on rumour forums could be fantastic. They are known for bringing a few new ideas to DSLRs, the anti dust system, live view and Micro4/3s to name a few. Bring it on Olympus!!

[Ross the fiddler]

First, the admission, I use Olympus and love it.
I use an E-500 (ancient by current standards) with a variety of lenses (9-18mm, 12-60mm, 50-200mm).
I found that I too was becoming worried by the lack of high ISO capabilities and bought an E-30, hoping for an improvement. There was undeniably an improvement in high ISO abilities, but the low ISO performance was lacking, providing substantially more shadow noise and softness at ISO 100-200 which is where I shoot most of my images. So I sold it and bought a 12-60mm instead.
I got to keep a camera I enjoy using more and a stellar lens to use with it.
I guess what I am trying to get at is the lack of high ISO performance compared to other brands may not be that much of an issue, especially if you don't shoot at high ISO much anyway. Also with the advent of new and always improving noise reduction software the odd image with noise problems can be easily dealt with.
I sometimes wonder, what will be the new ISO 400 in 10 years? Will we hear 'Don't buy camera X, there is visible noise at ISO 128000, you can't take clean pictures under moonlight!' Sometimes noise/grain can be good.

On another note, I hope Olympus come up with some innovations with their new cameras. The modular system being touted on rumour forums could be fantastic. They are known for bringing a few new ideas to DSLRs, the anti dust system, live view and Micro4/3s to name a few. Bring it on Olympus!!

That's interesting what you say that about the 2 cameras. One new thing on the E30 (which is also on the E520) that I've mentioned before, is the Auto gradation. The low ISO photos you took on the E30 with noisy shadow areas might be noticeable if gradation was auto. If you look you up those photos in Olympus Master 2 (or Viewer 2) it will indicate the setting as normal or auto (or hi or lo key etc) & if in RAW, can be changed back to normal in the Oly RAW developer, but I guess you're quite aware of that. I would be interested to know if that was the case. I'm familiar with the image quality & behaviours of the E410, E520 & E30 but not with the E500. The E520 had a stronger AA filter (than E410) & produced slighter softer images than the E410 (but with more dynamaic range), then the E30 has come out with a weaker AA filter (than the E520) & sharper images are obtainable & they need to be with the higher resolution sensor.

The 2 programs that are often recommended for cleaning up the noise (again mentioned before) are Noise Ninja & Neat Image & come as stand alone or plugins. They do an excellent job on fairly noisy looking images.

I am happy with my ZD14-54 II, but would like the 9-18 & 50-200 SWD lenses, the latter being a lovely faster (aperture) lens (& faster focusing plus heavier than my ZD70-300) & the former be great for those wide landscape shots etc. The wish list is longer but will have be a wish list for a longer time.

Ross

[lanegd01]

Here is an independent (as much as the press is independent) review. The E620 comes out of it pretty well

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Ol...SO_noise.shtml

[Pearly]

I've been an Olympus owner for 2 years now. My first (and still current camera) is the E-500.

I'm still very much a beginner and have a lot to learn, but I have loved the E-500. It was so easy to learn on. I still capture great images on it even though it's so ancient now.





The only issue I have with it is the noise level as mentioned already numerous times at ISO > 400.

I currently own the kit lenses (14-45, 40-150), a Zuiko 9-18 SWA, and an old OM mount 50mm 1.8. The 9-18mm is the lens I use the most as most of my photography is automotive and I like getting up close. I love the quality of the images the SWA produces and I like the perspective. I've been using the 50mm as well quite a fair bit as I love shooting wide open, and at night. This is the only time I don't really mind the noise, as it gives the images a bit of a film feel (to me anyway as I've never shot film) so I edit my images to reflect this.





Recently I've been considering upgrading to the E30 for the meantime as I want to wait until the E3 replacement is released and there have been enough tests and reviews. If the E3 replacement is not up to standard, I will most probably jump ship and go to Nikon. I will still keep my Oly gear though.

Anyone who owns an E30 have any good / bad things to say about it?

[peterb666]

The E-500 is getting on a bit now and newer models like the E-620 are much better for noise. I will be paying an interest to the E30 and E3 replacements too although I would prefer a semi-pro and weatherproofed Pen camera instead.