New to the world of photography - Camera Choice

[Rick]

Hey guys,

First post/topic in here. There is lots of great information on these forums so I can't wait to get shooting! Firstly i'll be needing a camera.

I have been tossing up between the 450D and the D80. I've had a play around with both Canon and Nikon and like the feel of the Nikon more. I am undecided about how I should go about making my first purchase. New? Second hand? New camera body for a little bit more then save for a #####? Or buy both second hand for the same price?

I would like some opinions on what my options are and what you guys recommend? Are there any other Aus forums I can look to for second hand gear? Looking around $1100 max budget.

Thanks in advance

[kiwi]

If the Nikon fits you better, feels better, that's the one

ebay

Id buy a d80 or d200 second hand, just make sure the actuations (# of shots) less than 50,000 or so

[jasevk]

If you're able to stretch ur budget out some more, there's a nifty d300 for sale in classifieds with a battery grip, also there's a 16-85mm lens. I own the same 2 items and they're both excellent pieces of equipment.

[Avalon]

Welcome to the Forum.
I reckon the D80 is a great camera to start on,
I did and never regretted it.
Your lens choice will depend on what type of photography you like to do.

[Gregg Bell]

If you prefer the feel of the D80 then thats probably the camera for you. no doubt its a great camera, but its getting on now.

Have you thought of getting a D40/D60, and a good lens to suit your needs? Or do you think you will find a enthusiast prosumer camera more suitable?

What would you like to photograph as well?

[Analog6]

If a camera feels good in your hadn then it is probably the one for you. I am a great adviser in favour of second hand, you get more bang for your buck and if you don't like it you can resell without as much loss as with a new one (generally). But if you go the used road, buy on a forum like this, where you have some comeback and a bit of support in use of the new toy. Good luck and enjoy.

[N*A*M]

d90 operates and feels a like a d80 but with a LOT more features
very good value as grey import today

[ving]

nikon of canon (or any other brand), it doesnt really matter cause they all can produce good pics... just whatever feels good to you.

you say the d80 felt better in your hands just buy one of those. gettng a new one can be hard tho... have you considered getting one of the new nikons like the d3000, d5000 or d90 (if you have the cash)? all newer technology and you will get the warranty with them which you probably wont get with a second hand d80. the d3000 and 5000 dont have focus motors biult into thier bodies which limits the ##### you can use, but this system has been around for ages and most new lenses have a built in focus motor to deal with this so I doubt its an issue. the d90 is more expensive but will allow you to auto focus with older lenses if you want to collect older lenses.

any of those 3 would probably suit your needs.

I cant comment on canon gear as i am not familiar with it but much the same would apply, they are all capable cameras.

[Rick]

Thanks for the reply guys, some good feedback.

I'm mostly looking at doing landscapes, portraits and sports...

If I can pick up a second hand D80/90 with a lens under $1100 second hand I would be happy. I figured the D90 would be slightly out of budget. Only reason I wasn't sure about second hand was because of warranty. Is there anything else to look out for apart from shutter actuations and general wear and tear (scratches, marks etc)?

I was originally considering the D60, but have been lead on a different path from a few people saying that its discontinued, old etc etc. Is there any truth in this? New D40/60 vs. S/H D80/90? I also feel like something midrange would suit me better in the long run, and give me room to grow for quite some time. If the gear is in good condition I have no problem buying second hand.

How do the D200/300's stack up against D80/90? Main differences and forte, so to speak?

I'll have a scope around the classified section!

Thanks =]

[ving]

I was originally considering the D60, but have been lead on a different path from a few people saying that its discontinued, old etc etc. Is there any truth in this? =]

the d80 was discontinued well before the d60 came out i think...

discontinued doenst mean no good. the d200 has been discontinued for ages and is still a great camera. if you get one of the older cameras just make sure it has been looked after and the shutter actuations arent too high.

[Gregg Bell]

Thanks for the reply guys, some good feedback.

I'm mostly looking at doing landscapes, portraits and sports...

If I can pick up a second hand D80/90 with a lens under $1100 second hand I would be happy. I figured the D90 would be slightly out of budget. Only reason I wasn't sure about second hand was because of warranty. Is there anything else to look out for apart from shutter actuations and general wear and tear (scratches, marks etc)?

I was originally considering the D60, but have been lead on a different path from a few people saying that its discontinued, old etc etc. Is there any truth in this? New D40/60 vs. S/H D80/90? I also feel like something midrange would suit me better in the long run, and give me room to grow for quite some time. If the gear is in good condition I have no problem buying second hand.

How do the D200/300's stack up against D80/90? Main differences and forte, so to speak?

I'll have a scope around the classified section!

Thanks =]

The D60 is still new compared to the D80. Don't get so caught up on the tech side, and what's old or new. The major difference between the D80 and D200 is the features the D200 offers. D80 has presets like landscape, portrait, sports modes. For enthusiasts who want to take a photo, without putting alot of thought into the photo, and walk away with a great shot.

The D200 has only M,A,S,P and 3 custom settings, designed with features more to professionals.

The D60 is a great camera, and is as good as the D80, it is cheaper mainly because It lacks a AF motor. Therefore you are limited to DX, G, and I believe AF-S lenses. The D80/90/200 all have this motor which makes them capable of using D-type lenses from the early 90s, and late 80s.


If you just want to take pictures for fun, I think a D40/60 would be a good idea, and then consider getting a good lens. someone was told me this...

"Photography is all about description. The lens makes the image, but the camera records it."

With point and shoots you are generally compromised my a poor lens, and a decent recorder. however with P&S you are limited to the amount of artistic effects you can do while photographing.

I think if you are happy to take good photographs for personal pleasure, and its just landscapes, portraits, and sports, then maybe you should consider finding the lens that will suit you, and then consider getting a used camera body later on.

The newer camera's maybe "better recorders" but even the D40/60 are very good cameras, and do everything the pro cameras do, they just lack in professional features.

[abitfishy]

I bought a D80 and LOVE it. Plenty of features, easy to use, and having the AF motor built in makes it very practical when looking for cheaper lenses. I paid about $650 for mine (body only) off ebay last April (I think) which I'm pretty sure was quite a good deal at the time. Especially since its only done 7103 actuations now, and that's after a lot of playing around and a Japan holiday.

[old dog]

hey Rick...had the exact same dilema almost 2 yrs ago. Nikon or Canon....nikon felt way more comfy in my hand...went for the D80 and love it. As for second hand....I would sell my D80 to anyone...only prob is a few hot pixels but I don`t even give that a thought. Great camera. With $1100 to spend, I`d go a D90 with a 50mm f1.8 to start with or buy a s/h 18-135 or similar. That`s what 1`d do. Whatever you choose, you will have a great time....cheers.

[Rick]

Once again thanks for the replies!

I dont plan to shoot in auto mode, but would a D200/300 be a little too advanced for a beginner like me?

I think I would rather a second hand D80/90 for a little more than a D60 (new) with lens kit. I prefer the midrange type of camera as it will take me a while to grow out of it.

What lenses would people recommend for what I want to do? Are there any other good places to pick up S/H camera's apart from these forums?

Rick.

[Colourised]

id say with the current prices for the D90 being only $860 for grey market body its definitely a steal! and you could always get 2nd hand lenses from forums like this one here to seek for good ones

im a D60 user btw, would i have been better off with the D90 in the 1st place? yes, in terms of wider range of lens choice w/o being limited to in-built autofocus lenses only.

but do i regret having the D60 now? not at all. its a sound performer and im loving it

[Gregg Bell]

Once again thanks for the replies!

I dont plan to shoot in auto mode, but would a D200/300 be a little too advanced for a beginner like me?

I think I would rather a second hand D80/90 for a little more than a D60 (new) with lens kit. I prefer the midrange type of camera as it will take me a while to grow out of it.

What lenses would people recommend for what I want to do? Are there any other good places to pick up S/H camera's apart from these forums?

Rick.

Rick,

I don't know where your are with your photography, or much you plan on learning. It all depends on how much time you commit to learning, and how quickly you advanced. I wanted a camera that gave me complete control. The D60 I had was a fantastic little camera. it had everything I needed, when first getting off the blocks.

I never planned to learn so much about photography, let alone start looking into the works of Henri Cartier-Bresson, Joel Meyerowitz, O'Sullivan, and recently Max Dupaine. Everyone progresses at different levels. Kiwi started off with a D40.

I got annoyed when I found the D60 had limited features, and the D200 offered me alot more features that I wanted. That was because

I am not going to tell you which camera to go for, There's NO auto mode on the Dxxx just FYI. The Dxxx are prosumer, or semi-professional bodies. honestly like I have said the lens makes the image, the body records the image. I think a D40, D60 or a D80 would be a good options. The tech and ISO in the D60 I think it much better then the tech in the D80 though. and the D60 has a far better dynamic range then the D80/200.

This D40 here will cost you around $300, which will give you $800ish to spend on lenses.

as for the lenses, it depends if you really want the lenses to be specialized, and if that's the only thing you want to photograph.

For landscapes you can go as cheap as the Sigma 10-20mm f/4.5-5.6 for as cheap as $505, or if you want a good Nikkor lens like the Nikkor 10-24mm f/3.5-4.5G ED DX for $940. Both of these lenses will work on all the cameras discussed, even the D40. However these lenses are primarily landscape lenses only!

IF you want a lens to do everything you want to photograph then you might want to consider getting the 18-200mm f/3.5-4.5G ED VRII for $770. However because of its focal length covering everything this lens has it's drawbacks, and that usually image quality. However if you just want good sharp photographs this lens maybe for you.

Portrait lenses, well I think the best lens for portrait on a D40/60 would be the 35mm f/1.8G DX, which is a wonderful little lens. If you want something cheap and cheerful and you get a D80/90 then the 50mm f/1.8D can be had for $165.

the kit lens 18-55mm is very decent optics, the annoying thing I found with that lens was that I think there is ants inside which adjust the lenses inside to make it focus correctly (in other words its slow at focusing) The best lens for landscapes, and portraits to be had would have to be the 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED DX though it out of your budget, it is a versatile brilliant lens, that would do the landscapes, and portraits you want, and yet still be a great general all rounder.

you could look at getting the highly rated Tamron 17-50mm f2.8 XR Di-II LD for $438, or get the one with Vibration Control for $670. Both of these are good lenses, and better then the kit lens, but fall short from the 17-55mm DX.

For sports, well I guess if you want to be cheap then the 55-200mm or a 70-300mm lens of your choice, though everyone highly rated the nikkor 70-300mm VR which sells for around $1000.

The question you should ask yourself is how important is quality?, how much sports will you be photographing?, Is shooting landscapes the main reason to get into photography?

If your answer is no to all these, then maybe you should get a 18-200mm. If not then why not get a D40 or D60, get a Tamron 17-50mm, and maybe a 55-200mm, or a 70-300mm lens for sports. If sports isn't such a big deal and landscape is more important then why not get the Sigma 10-20mm?

D40 ~$350
Tamron 17-50mm $438
Sigma 10-20mm $505

Total - $1293. A little over but you have a good lens for landscape, and another for general use.

D40 ~$350
18-200mm $770

Total $1120. close to your budget, and you have a lens that can be used for everything, but doesn't have fantastic image quality.

end of the day you got to come to a decision, about how important are those genres, and how important is quality.

[arthurking83]

T.....
I'm mostly looking at doing landscapes, portraits and sports...

.....

Thanks =]

Once again thanks for the replies!

I dont plan to shoot in auto mode, but would a D200/300 be a little too advanced for a beginner like me?....

Rick.

In order of preference:

D300; D200; D90 because of the slightly better AF abilities, and brighter viewfinder.

D200 and D90 would be a close run thing though, and (because I use this feature so much more than I ever expected!!) D90 may have an advantage over the D200 for it's LiveView.

Sometimes for landscape shots you may need Mirror Lock Up(D300 D200) as opposed to Exposure Delay(D90 D80) as the one second delay time is insufficient. I never use exposure delay anymore on the D300, only the Mup feature.

For sports the D300 may be an advantage over the rest due to a slight better AF module.
other features of the Dxxx series compared to the Dxx are too numerous to list again, but needless to say they can come in handy when you need them.

As for starting lenses.. ATM I can't see any lens better than the Nikon 18-105VR as an all rounder, just to get you to the point where YOU will have a better understanding of which focal lengths and aperture values are important to you.
105mm is short for most sport activities though.

The way I see it is that skimping now(at this stage) will only end up costing you more in the future.

On Wed 17th, were having a meetup at StKilda pier(see the Vic/Melb Meetup thread) come along and see for yourself what each camera is 'really like' in action.
There'll be many and varied brands to peruse.(be careful tho.. you may end up lusting over a D3x and multi thousand dollar lenses.. from which there's no recovery )

[Rick]

Thanks for the replies!

All of the technical talk seems a bit overwhelming at the moment, but the more I research the more I start to understand it.

Landscapes is mostly what I will be shooting.

Grey market imports are refurbished cameras from overseas im guessing? Meaning no warranty etc. Who retails them? Is it smart to get warranty? Obviously if you don't take care of it and something goes wrong it pays to have it, but providing the appropriate care is taken, is there anything that can go really wrong? If not I have no problems with buying S/H.

The more I read about the D90 the more I am liking them. It seems the smarter way to go, both financially and I won't feel the need to upgrade for a while. The more I read second hand also seems like the top option.

Apart from these forums is Ebay the place to be looking for second hand gear?

Thanks

[abitfishy]

Rarely are imports refurbished. Very rarely. Most are just HK internet sellers taking advantage of their cheap source VS our retail prices.

As much as anything can go wrong I guess, if you take care of it it should be fine. I don't think DSLR cameras are particularly troublesome, although there are acceptions to any rule. Having said that, the way I look at it, if you have it a few years before it goes bung you'll find by then it will probably be 3/4 of the price to replace with something 3 times better.....

Given my love of my D80, you won't be disappointed with the D90.

[Gregg Bell]

Thanks for the replies!

All of the technical talk seems a bit overwhelming at the moment, but the more I research the more I start to understand it.

Landscapes is mostly what I will be shooting.

Grey market imports are refurbished cameras from overseas im guessing? Meaning no warranty etc. Who retails them? Is it smart to get warranty? Obviously if you don't take care of it and something goes wrong it pays to have it, but providing the appropriate care is taken, is there anything that can go really wrong? If not I have no problems with buying S/H.

The more I read about the D90 the more I am liking them. It seems the smarter way to go, both financially and I won't feel the need to upgrade for a while. The more I read second hand also seems like the top option.

Apart from these forums is Ebay the place to be looking for second hand gear?

Thanks

The D90 is getting on it won't be long till nikon come up with another replacement.

D70 - April 2004
D80 - September 2006
D90 - October 2008

I sense there will be another new mid range camera this year, and Nikon might announce it sooner then you think. However if you want this camera, then get it, just remember in a two years time it will end up becoming obsolete. It also only leaves you $300 at most to spend on a lens, to do not only landscapes, but portraits. $300 just won't cut it, you'd probably be looking at a Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 which I think is $450.

If I were in your shoes and I'd really want the D90, I would consider pushing your budget a bit more, for a decent lens. The whole point and purpose of owning an SLR is because it has interchangeable lens, as opposed to a fixed lens.

As for grey imports they're generally imported form countries where they are retailed cheaper, so they can therefore make a profit on them for selling less. If you buy from DWI, you can buy MACK 3 year warranty, where the warranty is covered under MACK.