ACMP v AIPP - why 2? why join?

[dowden photography]

Joining AIPP when I get paid from my last job, I'm a student who gets paid work so its only like $75 a year for me, well worth it because I'm sure picking up extra work through the site would be easier.

[Shane.R]

It's the general public who buy photo's, and "what" appeals to them. Who needs a lobby.

[Kym]

It's the general public who buy photo's, and "what" appeals to them. Who needs a lobby.

Gee we don't need anyone to lobby about... well lets see...
Copyright?
Photographers rights?
Unethical practices in the industry?

[Shane.R]

Gee we don't need anyone to lobby about... well lets see...
Copyright?
Photographers rights?
Unethical practices in the industry?

..you sound paranoid of a big brother state. A small % of photographers belong to the groups mentioned. The rest of us have a voice. If photography in public should become sanitized, don't you think the BIG BRAND manufactures will have a fit! I'm sure they can afford lawyers that the union/lobby cannot.

..each to their own. It's your money.

[kiwi]

..you sound paranoid of a big brother state. A small % of photographers belong to the groups mentioned. The rest of us have a voice. If photography in public should become sanitized, don't you think the BIG BRAND manufactures will have a fit! I'm sure they can afford lawyers that the union/lobby cannot.

..each to their own. It's your money.

Lol, Nikon wouldn't care a rats, why should they ? What % of their sales do you think are for street photographers in Australia, 0.001% ?

Now, if big brother was to ban family birthday pictures then they'd be trouble

[Redgum]

Kiwi, I think that's what Shane was saying. Reread his post.
In respect to your stats though the street photographer (if you mean consumer) is by far their largest market. Just go to any "attraction" and look for a Canon shooter. 99 out of 100 will be consumers and that's the same worldwide.
Shane's right, if consumers stop buying Canon and Nikon they can pack up and go home. The professional market won't drive them. just look at Sony, Panasonic, JVC etc.
The power of persuasion is in numbers (consumers) not organisations.

[kiwi]

Could also lobby ap for NZ rights

(jk)

[Kym]

Could also lobby ap for NZ rights (jk)

There is a solution - become the 8th state of Australia!
We'll give the white paint to fix the flags as well!!

[Redgum]

Bill (Longshots), I make no apology for my remarks but clarify they are in no way personal or directed at individuals. To provoke such a response, this issue has no doubt been raised many times before and explains Rick's remark in that the organisations attract relatively few members compared with the size of the industry, particularly in Tasmania. The AFI, APA, QFC, all of which I have served at board level, experience similar rejection.
The benefits are of little significance to the majority of members who rescind their membership after a short duration and one needs to be reasonably skilled in politics to access any substantial benefit. Of course the networking in itself can be of good value but that essential only applies to members in Sydney and Melbourne.
In a professional sense photographers would be better off subscribing to business networking organisations which they can clearly identify as providing work opportunities and not having to compete with a raft of organisational members trying to access the same work.

[Longshots]

Bill (Longshots), I make no apology for my remarks but clarify they are in no way personal or directed at individuals. To provoke such a response, this issue has no doubt been raised many times before and explains Rick's remark in that the organisations attract relatively few members compared with the size of the industry, particularly in Tasmania. The AFI, APA, QFC, all of which I have served at board level, experience similar rejection.
The benefits are of little significance to the majority of members who rescind their membership after a short duration and one needs to be reasonably skilled in politics to access any substantial benefit. Of course the networking in itself can be of good value but that essential only applies to members in Sydney and Melbourne.
In a professional sense photographers would be better off subscribing to business networking organisations which they can clearly identify as providing work opportunities and not having to compete with a raft of organisational members trying to access the same work.

Sorry Redgum, I missed this post, and I feel its really worth answering. And its a small point but I loathe being called Bill William is fine

Each to their own opinion, and I respect that certainly some people would agree with you. I'd just like to answer this post as I feel there are a few issues, where an opposing and alternative view point is really necessary. What I, and other members get out of joining a professional representative body is actually quite considerable, and not just the listed benefits. Those are tangible, the most important ones, are slightly harder to specify. On the first note, its not what I get out, but what I put into the collective organisation, that appeals to me. And for what its worth, everything I've ever put into the organisation, from a volunteer to AIPP board member, I can certainly ascertain its been "refunded" in droves.

Being a lone voice gains little these days. Representing an organisation on a particular pet subject, and mine has been lobbying for change to the copyright laws in the past, and now its persuading companies and organisations to produce fair and honest photographic competitions. I'm not blowing my own trumpet here, but highlighting that its not always what members can gain from being a member of an organisation, but what they can contribute as a collective to bring about changes for the better. I'm quite proud to say that on behalf of AIPP, I have made a considerable difference in how certain photographic manafacturers, and retaillers are producing photographic competitions that are fairer for all parties.

And on the second and more important note, membership of AIPP, ACMP and in the UK, BIPP and RPS, has really helped me develop my work. Without the honest, and helpful advice from other members, I wouldnt really be the photographer I am today. So the personal development assistance is again, considerable and proven.

And yes the networking can be considerable. Just on photographic assignments alone, and as an example I've recommended other AIPP members from other states, including Tasmania, who I've met and seen their work at AIPP events. And in reverse, I've been reccommended to clients by AIPP members resident in other states, and I'm quite confident that my AIPP subscriptions have been "recovered" by way of additional income from work, that I would not have normally gained.

Regarding your comment "not having to compete with a raft of organisational members trying to access the same work" - well I meet and speak with not just AIPP and ACMP members, but also plenty of those who are not members, all still work in the same area of photography as myself; and although I'm well aware that some of my colleagues and I are potentially seeking work from similar clients, the benefits of communicating - amicably - with so many other people in the same industry as myself, and helping each other with snippets of recent news is absolutely immeasurable. Chatting with other photographers, members of AIPP or not have certainly helped me with knowing who is a dodgy payer, who is a nightmare client, and who I should avoid a job from.


Oh and I'd absolutely agree with your great advice to joining other business networking to source work etc. Valuable advice indeed. But the two subjects are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

[Redgum]

Oh and I'd absolutely agree with your great advice to joining other business networking to source work etc. Valuable advice indeed. But the two subjects are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

Thanks William, so what you are saying is that there are no business opportunities with AIPP and ACMP, just fellowship!

[campo]

I think it also boils down to the approach one takes when asking for advice. Simply asking a pro to divulge everything they know/do in exchange for nothing is likely to result in the pro saying no. I guess when asking, one should consider what mutual benefit could be gained by both parties in the exchange?

I'm big on sharing but at the same time, if I was to have someone constantly asking me questions and showing little initiative to go out and learn for themselves, I think there would come a time where I would be reluctant to keep divulging...

[dowden photography]

Sometimes its just little things like camera gear they get catty over. I've seen a pro photographer move anothers gear because that was his seat last time, I've met one who won't talk to Nikon users because he think they are up-themselves.

As for never lending a hand, yes don't give all the tips away but sometimes just a little help like with a setting in a shot.

[Redgum]

Sometimes its just little things like camera gear they get catty over. I've seen a pro photographer move anothers gear because that was his seat last time, I've met one who won't talk to Nikon users because he think they are up-themselves.

As for never lending a hand, yes don't give all the tips away but sometimes just a little help like with a setting in a shot.

You know I've never struck this in 26 years in the industry. Although, I must admit it's common at just about every club meeting I've been to over 40 years.

[Longshots]

so the original question was ??

[Redgum]

so the original question was ??

What benefits does membership lead to? Pretty much covered.

[Tony B]

What benefits does membership lead to? Pretty much covered.

Covered very well. A professional association should not just be a toothless tiger or boys & girls club though. It should have ethical standards by which members are judged & lose accreditation if not complying to the agreed set of standards . In my profession I cannot obtain public liability insurance unless I am a member of the professional association & have to continuously update skills to maintain workplace standards. This to me is professionalism & not just fee earning & part of the definition of being a pro. Fees & benefits are similar to those for AIPP membership.

[TeddyTan]

wow thanks for the informative post longshots. That just made me wanna join AIPP. Peter Myers had been pestering me to join and I now see the value.

[ehor]

Interesting thread.
I think it's time I joined AIPP

[maccaroneski]

There is nothing correct in the statement that it relies on implying endorsing a product or service, you would be using there likeness in a commercial situation, simply by selling it as a card - which you cannot without a release.

William,

Where is this written (as they say)? My understanding was that Mr Chop was on the right track, but for a slightly incorrect assertion regarding "defamation laws" - it's actually "passing off" (which essentially falls into the same category, I'm just nit picking). And even then as far as the law has gone is to say that you are in danger if the subject is in essence a celebrity or other well known endorser of products.

The above however is based on 12 year old memories of law school and a little more than passing interest in relevant cases if they come to my attention.