ACMP v AIPP - why 2? why join?

[Kym]

We have two professional photography bodies in Australia. ACMP and AIPP

I am not a member of either. I am interested in the pro/con of each (without getting into a slanging match).

Are you a member of one or both?

What benefits does membership lead to?

Why don't they merge?
Surely a single professional voice would be better for lobbying the Govt etc.
(If this is too much of a can of worms - then don't air dirty laundy on AP )

[kiwi]

I've often thought of joining AIPP. I think it does good work. But, my problem with it is that it's imho there to really support professionals rather than amatuers that do a bit of pro work.

But, it's only my opinion.

ACMP I thought was mainly for news/commercial photographers.

[Clubmanmc]

why is there a choice between Nikon and Canon...

cos there is a choice...

M

[kiwi]

oh, don't forget APS...

www.a-p-s.org.au

[Kym]

oh, don't forget APS...
www.a-p-s.org.au

I am aware of APS but was focused on the 'professional' organisations.

[kiwi]

Yes, but didn't you want one united lobbyist, and therefore wouldn't it make sense to include the mass market of photographic enthusiasts ? A lot more mum & dad voters there.

[ricktas]

I have not attended any ACMP events, so have no opinion there.

AIPP, I have attended several events over the years and have learnt from the experience. The most informative event I attended was a morning course on how to do the role of a judge at an AIPP event. The morning consisted of a talk, some discussion, then presentation of a series of photos and explanation of how the judges come to a final score. We then got to have a go at a 'mock' judging.

Then in the afternoon, members were selected to take on the role of Judge (in a panel of 5), to determine Photographer of the Year, at a State level.

I got a lot from that day!

However, maybe it is because Tasmania is small, behind the scenes the petty remarks between photographers about other professionals was concerning for me. I tend to say what I think, and I do not really care if you are the most respected photographer in Aus, I will have my opinion and I am willing to state it, directly to you. I found the back-stabbing and snide remarks quite off-putting, where they would then be all 'happy to see you' when the actual person walked up. I do not know if that happens in each State. I still attend AIPP events here occasionally, but avoid any discussion about other photographers. Preferring to walk off and grab a cuppa, than get involved in that type of discussion.

Now that the 'personal' side of my experience is out of the way, the professional side of the AIPP is very much worth it. You can tap into a wealth of knowledge, experience and learn a great deal. It can be a very rewarding organisation to join.

[Longshots]

My second attempt - almost finished my first response and I had a power cut !

OK I'm a member of both. I'm also a member of Royal Photographic Society, British Institute of Professional Photography, SWPP, and BPPA.

So, clearly, I'm "into" being involved and seeing the benefits of being a member of photographic associations.


In all honesty, the benefits listed on the AIPP website, give a fairly clear indication that on those alone, its money well spent.

And thats before you consider the networking and friendly support from one member to another. Tassie has a good record of producing super efficient AIPP National Presidents. And at the moment a very bright Alice Bennett, from Tassie, is the the current AIPP National President. I'm very confident she's already moving the AIPP up to a whole new level of support. AIPP have just employed a full time Executive Officer in a very positive step towards increasing benefits and the reach of AIPP.

Its not only what you get from organisations such as AIPP, but also its a classic case of you get more back if you get involved. Getting involved means you get more back. Very simple really.

Why isnt there one organisation ? Yeah well ideal world there would be. But it would seem that there is a hardcore minority of both organisations that prefer to have their own camps. Doesnt mean that they dont work together - sometimes. As it happens ACMP was formerly known as FACE, and was "born" from AIPP as a funded and approved separate group.

As it happens I've been State President or Representative for both AIPP and ACMP, and have also been National Vice President and Board Member for both AIPP, and ACMP. I remain a working (ie I put my hand up for voluntary roles) member for both organisations.

Its definitely worth noting that there is a considerable difference between the numbers of membership - AIPP has I believe in the region of 2,500 members with some considerable growth over the past few years (and there is a very good reason for that which I'll come to later - and will address Kiwi's point/opinion), and that membership is very evenly spread across Australia. ACMP on the other hand has a much smaller membership ranging from 300-400 members - their membership base is more concentrated and the majority of its members are primarily Melbourne based.

As Rick has found, AIPP meetings, seminars etc, tend to be very friendly and always informative. As I've been fortunate enough to attend AIPP events in many other states, including Tasmania as a guest speaker, I can assure you that similar experiences can be had all around the country. Its not just a Tassie thing I'd urge people to go to one if they know its on (check AIPP event calendar or AIPP divisions calendar to see whats on) - you can often go to these events even if you're not a member, it just costs a little more - which you'll always find will be cheaper than a straight commercial style seminar/event.

Kiwi to address your feeling/opinion. I'd have to disagree with you. IMHO, AIPP have over the past few years, addressed the issue of part time photographers, or people who have multi careers, and its now possible to join AIPP on many levels - even if you're not a working photographer , but just enjoy taking pictures. That wasnt the case ten years ago. As I've said to you several times, the small annual investment would be money well spent even if you're "an amateur that does a bit of pro work". And without wanting to start another very in depth discussion I totally disagree with that, as that statement is a complete contradiction. You cant be an amateur if you're doing pro work in my book So keeping this brief, if you want to sell your work, aspire to even a weekend work which you want to sell, or go into it full time, then join.

ACMP is not just for commercial photographers. Equally AIPP is not just for wedding and portrait. In all honesty AIPP have the numbers that demonstrate that it not only truly represents a wide gamut of professionals, semi professionals, and yes non professionals. So if you need to select either one or the other - despite my history with both, and despite my choice to support both, then join AIPP.

The networking, the education possibilities, the sharing of knowledge, the support, these are all things that are sometimes forgotten when people are listing the material benefits. There is also the possibility of standing up, taking part and making a difference. So when you see something that irks you, something that you think is unfair, unjust or simply wrong; you can take part and make a difference, and make the effort to make a change. And thats not just for yourself, but for the mutual benefit of all in the photographic community - and that importantly is not just for members of your chosen photographic association.

So yes join You're not just helping yourself, but supporting others.

[Dan Cripps]

However, maybe it is because Tasmania is small, behind the scenes the petty remarks between photographers about other professionals was concerning for me. I tend to say what I think, and I do not really care if you are the most respected photographer in Aus, I will have my opinion and I am willing to state it, directly to you. I found the back-stabbing and snide remarks quite off-putting, where they would then be all 'happy to see you' when the actual person walked up. I do not know if that happens in each State. I still attend AIPP events here occasionally, but avoid any discussion about other photographers. Preferring to walk off and grab a cuppa, than get involved in that type of discussion.

It's universal. Happens all around the globe. Creatives are insecure by nature and tall poppy cutting is rampant.

I'm a full accredited AIPP member, but to be honest, I'm not sure I can measure the value very highly for myself.

[ricktas]

It's universal. Happens all around the globe. Creatives are insecure by nature and tall poppy cutting is rampant.

I'm a full accredited AIPP member, but to be honest, I'm not sure I can measure the value very highly for myself.

Agree it happens everywhere, but get a group of 200-300 together you can chose to move from the negative group to a positive and enlightening group. But when you get a place as small as Tasmania and less than 20 AIPP members at an event, it gets harder to separate from the negativity, cause their are way less 'other' groups to go to. (hope that makes sense). And I am not having a go at the Tas AIPP Branch at all. I have got a lot out of the times I have attended their events. Just sometimes the pettiness was a bit much from some members.

[dowden photography]

Agree it happens everywhere, but get a group of 200-300 together you can chose to move from the negative group to a positive and enlightening group. But when you get a place as small as Tasmania and less than 20 AIPP members at an event, it gets harder to separate from the negativity, cause their are way less 'other' groups to go to. (hope that makes sense). And I am not having a go at the Tas AIPP Branch at all. I have got a lot out of the times I have attended their events. Just sometimes the pettiness was a bit much from some members.

Since I started photography my biggest disappointment has been the cattiness of other pro photographers. Its like being in high school sometimes.

Some are never wiling to lend a hand, teach others help with ideas and will talk behind your back like a old housewife.

[Longshots]

Since I started photography my biggest disappointment has been the cattiness of other pro photographers. Its like being in high school sometimes.

Some are never wiling to lend a hand, teach others help with ideas and will talk behind your back like a old housewife.

Odd that you think that. After 34 years in the industry, I'd have to say that I find the total opposite. The time I've witnessed the experiences you describe have always been in the camera club/amateur area.

Business is business, its not always going to be a group of huggers

I've been working now professionally for over 40 years, with a wide variety of careers, and what you describe, I've seen and witnessed by others from all of those experiences. My own personal view is that as the majority of photographers are self employed individuals, they share a common ground of survival, and the sharing of knowledge is far greater that any other career I've experienced.


Although I'd agree that in any area, it doesnt matter what trade, profession or sport you want to select, and it doesnt matter if you include professionals or amateurs, there are some who want to help and some who dont. Its that simple, its down to personal attitudes of the individuals.

As a Ex National Vice President of both AIPP and ACMP, both organisations actual reason for being is to assist each other, (ie for example read the AIPP codes of ethics).

[SteveB]

I have thought about joining AIPP for a number of years now, tossed that question around (is it worth it) have been to a couple of the HOTD's which were brilliant. After that in depth run down William, you have swayed me over, I will get myself joined up in the next few weeks. Thank you.

[Longshots]

happy to help - so if you have any questions at all regarding joining call me.

Its worth noting that if you are intending to got to the HOTD event, the entry fee for a member is much cheaper than a non member - so I'd put in your application to join ASAP so it goes though before the event.

[kiwi]

Yes, quite true, me saying im an amateur that does pro work I agree is a bit like saying im only an alcoholic in the weekends

I will join AIPP, I just haven't internally justified the investment (not just money but I believe you have to put in time to receive benefit, and time is the killer for me at the momenbt). I like the AIPP ideals, benefits and networking opportunities.

There's the emerging member type that would interest me, but, I might be emerging for a lot longer than 2 years, lol

As you can see here on AP, there are hundreds on AP probably charging a little, some a lot for their work and there are very few members of AIPP. That's the opportunity.

[Longshots]

Oh I agree. But its an opportunity for AP members as well as an opportunity for the organisations AIPP have already made changes to recognise and open their doors to part timers. So now the opportunity is there for the taking

[Kym]

William - Thanks for you post - very informative.

There are a few AP members who might get benefit from the AIPP, so the information is helpful.

[Longshots]

I meant to add - which was on my original lost post - I would be happy to answer any questions and assist anyone interested in joining AIPP - either contact me here, or via my contact details on my website - www.longshots.com.au

Or you can always phone the helpful staff at AIPP National Office:
Telephone 03 9329 0044
Email admin@aipp.com.au

[kiwi]

William, re the emerging member, is the two year restriction on that membership likely to stay ? The alternative categories seem quite a big jump if you are only ever really a weekend warrior at best

I know we've talked about this before but it might be useful to get your views on this here too

[Longshots]

re the emerging member, there is definitely a two year limit and thats it.

What its designed for (and something I lobbied for for some time) is to give those who joined as students, and gave them a transition to full members.

OK I see your point about the big jump, but then again there are already a lot of semi pros or part timers as full members who will quite happily support the issue of the worth of AIPP full membership. Quite simply its one of those things that as you will see in the real listed benefits, the full member easily gets their subs back. Now if you look at the savings on Insurance alone, that will help you justify the full membership costs.

I see it as the same as owning a decent car - ie its the same cost to everyone, doesnt matter how much or how little you use it. At the end of the day, it gives the same pleasure and the same benefits.

Or perhaps a better analogy - Canon didnt sell you their lovely 400mm lense on the basis that you paid less for it then a full time sports shooter did they ?

On the reduced Emerging members - each member joining as an Emerging Member does actually cost the AIPP - ie they end up supplying more than they gain in income. So in fairness, and I think to appease people like me who pleaded for a stepping stone approach from the student members, you're either a member or not.

So at the end of the day I see your point, but I also need you and others to understand that the membership fees are a really good investment, no matter your level of interest in photography.