User Tag List

Thanks useful information Thanks useful information:  0
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23

Thread: Setting Grey Point - Am I going crazy?

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    28 Jul 2007
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    506
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Setting Grey Point - Am I going crazy?

    OK, heres the situation.

    I took some photos of the girls today. I have some new goodies, so I wanted to try them out. Since I bought a standard run of the mill Grey card, I thought I'd give that a shot to see how improved my shots would be.....I had my youngest hold the card at the beginning and end, took a shot and then continued on.

    In post processing, I took the shot, opened it in Adobe RAW, used the White balance tool and set the white balance by clicking on the grey card. Here is a before and after:

    Before


    After


    Now, is it my imagination, but does the after shot look way too warm? According to RAW, as shot was 55K (which it was) and it set the WB to 64K

    Am I missing something?

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    12 Feb 2008
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    7,831
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    couple of things, the 2nd does look more natural to me

    But, it doesnt look like a 18% grey card to me, too dark
    Darren
    Gear : Nikon Goodness
    Website : http://www.peakactionimages.com
    Please support Precious Hearts
    Constructive Critique of my images always appreciated

  3. #3
    Administrator ricktas's Avatar
    Join Date
    24 Jun 2007
    Location
    Hobart
    Posts
    15,643
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I agree with Darren, the second does look more natural to me as well. How long since you calibrated your screen Hoffy? Screens can 'shift' over time.
    "It is one thing to make a picture of what a person looks like, it is another thing to make a portrait of who they are" - Paul Caponigro

    Constructive Critique of my photographs is always appreciated
    Nikon, etc!

    RICK
    My Photography

  4. #4
    Serial Truant.... phild's Avatar
    Join Date
    01 Jun 2008
    Location
    Launceston
    Posts
    538
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The second looks good to me as well, the first looks a touch cold.
    Phil

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    12 Feb 2008
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    7,831
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    by the way, not so much cool #1 but a definate magenta cast

  6. #6
    Member
    Threadstarter

    Join Date
    28 Jul 2007
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    506
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Cheers. When I look again, yes, I would say the second is closer. Just maybe a tad warm.

    Yes, I need to calibrate again. It has been too long.

    The card is supposedly an 18% grey. It was a "Zone System" card that I bought from the local camera store.

  7. #7
    Member
    Threadstarter

    Join Date
    28 Jul 2007
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    506
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    OK, here we go again, this time I met the WB halfway And for reference, the 2nd from the OP:


  8. #8
    Administrator ricktas's Avatar
    Join Date
    24 Jun 2007
    Location
    Hobart
    Posts
    15,643
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    The right side one here looks the most natural to me.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    12 Aug 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    104
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hoffy. Are you sure thats 18% grey card? looks alot darker.
    The 2nd image is close but still looks like its got a bit of green tint.

    The 1st image has alot of magenta!

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    20 Mar 2008
    Location
    Glenorchy
    Posts
    4,040
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I agree #2 looks best, but you need to stand the child beside your monitor and compare them that way. Only you can say which is right.
    Odille

    “Can't keep my eyes from the circling sky”

    My Blog | Canon 1DsMkII | 60D | Tokina 20-35mm f/2.8 AF AT-X PRO | EF50mm f/1.8| Sigma 150-500mm F5-6.3 APO DG OS HSM | Fujifilm X-T1 & X-M1 | Fujinon XC 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 OIS | Fujinon XC 50-230mm F3.5-5.6 OIS | Fujinon XF 18-55mm F2.8-4R LM OIS | tripods, flashes, filters etc ||

  11. #11
    Ausphotography Regular leanneqld's Avatar
    Join Date
    21 Feb 2009
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    1,425
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I thought the grey card was used to get optimal exposure more so than white balance-neutral white card is better for white balance ???

  12. #12
    It's all about the Light!
    Tech Admin
    Kym's Avatar
    Join Date
    15 Jun 2008
    Location
    Modbury, Adelaide
    Posts
    9,641
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by leanneqld View Post
    I thought the grey card was used to get optimal exposure more so than white balance-neutral white card is better for white balance ???
    The theory is an 18% (or 12%) grey is what DSLR camera software tries to average the image to.
    So by giving PP a reference point it can align to the sensor.

    The card looks dark to me as well. (Calibrated here)

    Ash .. If you want to borrow my Huey Pro let me know.
    regards, Kym Gallery Honest & Direct Constructive Critique Appreciated! ©
    Digital & film, Bits of glass covering 10mm to 500mm, and other stuff



  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    12 Feb 2008
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    7,831
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think the card Ashley's using would be fine to set WB, to do so you only need a neutral reference point. Problem with white is that it's rarely white.

    18% etc is more useful for exposure though

  14. #14
    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
    Join Date
    04 Jun 2006
    Location
    the worst house, in the best street
    Posts
    8,185
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'd say using matrix metering has compensated(on the dark side) and may be making the grey card look darker than it may be.

    I've found using grey to balance Wb better is very effective even if the grey isn't 18%. I sometimes just use a random part of a scene that I remember to be 'grey' or grey enough. The idea is ore to neutralise the color cast rather than get correct exposure. I generally do that when lighting is mixed, or if I see an obvious colour cast(say as you would in a purple room)... or using a CPL in slightly overcast conditions(where it may produce an obvious yellow cast.

    With the grey card.. the best thing to do, is to manually create a preset WB setting using the 'Pre set WB feature of your camera. the camera will confirm all the variables for you and then you shoot in that pre set WB mode. Handy for weird lighting conditions, as in this shot with the purple looking room.. which usually throws AWB off(hence the magenta cast).

    Also any brand new piece of clean white paper such as an A4 sheet of printer paper can be used for pre setting WB in camera(which I've also done).

    Either or both of the second images look perfectly fine. The first in both posts have a magenta cast.
    Nikon D800E, D300, D70s
    {Nikon} -> 50/1.2 : 500/8(CPU'd) : 105/2.8VR Micro : 180/2.8ais : 105mm f/1.8ais : 24mm/2ais
    {Sigma}; ->10-20/4-5.6 : 50/1.4 : 12-24/4.5-5.6II : 150-600mm|S
    {Tamron}; -> 17-50/2.8 : 28-75/2.8 : 70-200/2.8 : 300/2.8 SP MF : 24-70/2.8VC


  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    12 Sep 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    27
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Firstly I'll say that the "corrected" image looks better to me than the original magenta one. But whether it's "correct" is a different question.

    Leanne's on the money here: the grey card you bought (which is designed to be a particular tone/lightness) is probably not neutral (without colour). Products like the WhiBal, Lastolite white balance target, ExpoDisc, etc are meant to be neutral and used for custom white balance. Whether they come out black, grey, or white is just dependent on your exposure!

    Traditional 18% "grey cards" are usually printed cardboard, and they're renowned for fading and changing colour over time. Of course it was always in Kodak's interests to sell you a fresh one every couple of years. Something like a sheet of paper or a white T-shirt can be used for an approximate custom WB, but they won't be "correct" (especially in sunlight, those examples tend to flouresce slightly blue). But they can get you close, and you can tweak the sliders "by hand" a bit from there.

    In the end that's often all you have: if you shoot a sunset and choose a WB to neutralise a grey/white reference, the colours may be "correct", but they won't look "right". In the end we adjust the images to "look right". Obviously this is only possible with a properly calibrated/profiled display though.

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    08 May 2009
    Location
    Buninyong
    Posts
    1,235
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by arthurking83 View Post
    Also any brand new piece of clean white paper such as an A4 sheet of printer paper can be used for pre setting WB in camera(which I've also done).
    I'm guessing this would be dramatically affected by the light you doe this in? ie incandesant vs fluro vs sunlight. What would be best?
    Mic

    Photography is the art of telling stories with light.

    www.michaelgoulding.com

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    12 Feb 2008
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    7,831
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: Setting Grey Point - Am I going crazy?

    No. The point is to advise the camera to set a wb that makes the object being photographed look neutral/white.

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    08 May 2009
    Location
    Buninyong
    Posts
    1,235
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ahh of course, tailor the camera WB to match the light...of course.

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    20 Mar 2008
    Location
    Glenorchy
    Posts
    4,040
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here is a 20 grey scale example - if you cannot see 20 distinctions then your monitor is off.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  20. #20
    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
    Join Date
    04 Jun 2006
    Location
    the worst house, in the best street
    Posts
    8,185
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The other problem with 'setting WB' is that you;re trying to make white look white again to offset the colour cast for the situation. Great if perfect colour accuracy is the goal, but not always desirable.

    ie. if you look at a piece of white printer paper in incandescent lighting, it'll have a slight yellow cast.. that's. Setting or pre-setting Wb to make that white paper look white again may look 'correct' .. but it's not natural.

    eg. at sunset/sunrise the light is a warm orange glow... taking a grey card reference, or pre setting WB usually makes the scene look much colder(colour temp), and the reason you're out there shooting at that time of the day, is then lost.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •