How to deal with Police when out photographing (& Photographers Rights)

[ving]

gee its great having a cop on here!
thnx nick

[jjphoto]

...Considering 60 Mintues/ Today Tonight are trash media, anyone with intelligence would ignore anything they put to air.

Except their regular appraisals of new bra technology...

C'mon, we need that kind of information!!

[jjphoto]

I think security guards are a much bigger problem than Police officers.
They are just ordinary citizens with attitude
Again - being nice does defuse situations.

Yes and No.

I regularly have this problem because of the nature of my work, shooting cars for magazines. I would be the first to call the Police if a security guard gave me enough grief as I'm quite aware of my rights. The key is to know your rights and to stand up for them because they usually don't.

Most security guards are just fine, especially the more experienced ones. They're just doing their jobs. It's the snotty nosed green ones that cause grief.

If you are on private property then the guards have every right to potentially tell you to stop shooting or maybe eject you so you need to consider the circumstances. The problems generally arise when they over step their mark and tell you that you can't shoot some thing from public land, usually outside of the property they are guarding. That's when I usually get indignant and all huffy and puffy.

JJ

[NickMonk]

Thank you everyone for the valuable comments that have been added.

I am sorry that one of my comments was taken to be ambiguos, you may have noted I am very careful about what I write on this topic.

I clarified the point later, so that should be enough of that!

Without making myself out to be some sort of martyr, it would normally be unlikely you would get this sort of topic openly discussed by a serving police officer on an internet forum.

As I have answered most of the extra questions already put to me I won't be answering further ones based on every permutation of a situation unless it is via PM, and then at my discretion. By all means continue on this discussion though. If I have something meaningful to add later I will.

[Buddah]

Hey Nick

You have given more than enough. Many thanks. Any more and it should be over to Police PR.

Claude

[TOM]

Thanks for taking to write this article. There is some terrific info there. I always knew the law but it is great to hear it from a policeman's perspective.

As Justice Dowd said in 2001, "A person, in our society, does not have a right not to be photographed’.

[Nicholas N]

Considering 60 Mintues/ Today Tonight are trash media, anyone with intelligence would ignore anything they put to air.

Rick unfortunately the general population swallow everything fed to them by current affairs programs.

[rossmorgan]

Hi All

Well those who know me will know I used to have a website called morgs.tk and a business name Morgs Net - Photos from around Tasmania. This was a hobby business that actually made me a few dollars from my interest in photography and my volunteer work as a firefighter with TFS. Anyways I used to photograph Ambulance, Fire and Police Vehicles along with nature and anything and everything else.

I attended a few scenes where police were on site including a structure fire (out of my brigades area so I was there as a photographer not firefighter) and walked past the first police car with an officer standing there he looked at me with camera (DSLR) and didn't stop me. I was approched by a officer a few moments later as I was turning the camera on and he asked for my name and phone number, at that time I had some business cards advertising my website so handed one over and went on to grab a few photos one which appered in he TFS fireground Magazine.

As a volunteer firefighter I attended a few car fires and had the camera in my car the other guys knew of my camera and would ask if I had it if they knew it was a car fire or something suss as i would often take photos of the incidents (keeping in mind my first job as volunteer firefighter) but on two incidents my photos were used by police one was a stolen car and the other was taken at a vegetation fire.

Also if you do take a photo of a police officer / firefighter or ambulance officer make sure they are wearing their correct uniform. I once took a photo of a firefighter who was at a job and was almost going to submit it to the fireground magazine however he was not wearing his full turn out gear and if the ranking officers saw this the you know what would hit the fan. I have seen similar issues with Police who are not wearing there hat for photos.

We all spend a few dollars (some more than others) on our camera gear to enjoy our hobby so often something as simple as a business card, polo shirt with a business name on it is a good idea.

Overall, Expain the 3 W's and you're fine.

Ross

[willia]

This is a very useful discussion to have. I agree its always handy to carry business cards to give to people.
I've also read on other forums about people who carry detailed information about their way of working with photography on A4 sheets, to hand to people who are curious about what they are photographing.

[AmPhot]

Nick,
Thanks so much for writing this, as I'm becoming interested in street photography, this is a subject that has been at the forefront of my mind. As you say, common sense applies and as with any dealings with the public, a bit of common courtesy and respect goes a long way.

BTW, thank you for your service.

[pirate59]

already said but id like to add in my thanks. i always see this sort of stuff covering UK and US police and always wondered about Australia.

thanks heaps

[Paper_Mache_Man]

Yeah I agree, a great post and 99% of the time keeping your cool will result in a more positive outcome. This is a fact of life and a lot of people seem utterly oblivious to this simple fact.

I'd like to add the same info I posted in the other related thread as this one is a sticky and the info pertains particularly to being forced to delete photos by the police.

The only way to permanently delete data off a storage device is to overwrite it.

Most cameras, much like computers, simply unflag the data as a file and it's recognised as free space - i.e. space that can be overwritten. Provided you don't take any photos after "deleting" the photo you can easily restore it at a later date as the series of 1's and 0's remain in place. You'll need special software to do this but a lot of SD cards now ship with it.

Deleting is completely different to formatting an SD card. The process of formatting is basically writing "0" across the entire allocated memory. "Quick Formats" however are much the same as "Erase All" commands and the data can usually be retrieved.

This is something to bear in mind if you are ever forced to delete your photos.

Now, hopefully there isn't a backlash against the spread of this information whereby all photographers are asked to format their SD card or even worse, hand it over.

[Kym]

Deleting is completely different to formatting an SD card. The process of formatting is basically writing "0" across the entire allocated memory. "Quick Formats" however are much the same as "Erase All" commands and the data can usually be retrieved.

Camera formatting does NOT remove images. It is in fact a 'quick' format which means it simply writes and new empty directory structure to the card.

Proof: Files can be recovered after formatting on a camera by recovery software - eg: http://www.ausphotography.net.au/for...033#post203033

The ONLY way to fully clear a memory card is to do a full format on a PC or use special overwrite software. Eg. http://www.killdisk.com/features.htm

[Paper_Mache_Man]

Can't seem to edit my post but yes I believe Cypher is right, at least as far as most cameras go. I didn't specify that the formatting was being done on camera for this reason as I suspect the format option is a lie. Really that's a problem with the camera though as in virtually all cases formatting would be construed as the process of writing 0's I outlined.

A very easy way to check this is the time it takes to "format" a card. If your camera takes the same amount of time to "format" the SD card as it does to "erase all images" (as it does on my 450D) then chances are it's just doing a "quick format" which is virtually identical to erasing data (in the fact that it doesn't lol). Properly formatting an SD card actually takes a very long time, think Atari style.

Hope everyone is plesently confused now...I mean um...enlightened.

[michael_sa]

Some food for thought:

"A MAN detained and threatened with arrest under the Terrorism Act for filming police on his mobile phone has alleged police abused their powers."
"It was in my hand, and they were saying, 'Give me your phone, give me your phone,' but I just kept repeating, 'I do not consent to a search of my phone',"

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/s...76-952,00.html

A recent SA incident. This guy was taking photos of Police. I understand he was arrested for 'Resisting Arrest' (?!)

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/s...006301,00.html

Not at all confidence inspiring...
Not at all

[pommie]

Sorry michael_sa, I don't really understand what you are trying to say in regards to the last two links in your post, I get the idea that you are saying the police are all corrupt stand over merchants and the bikie gangs (as opposed to groups of bikers) are all sweet and innocent.
Surely I have misunderstood you

Cheers David

[oldfart]

Sorry michael_sa, I don't really understand what you are trying to say in regards to the last two links in your post, I get the idea that you are saying the police are all corrupt stand over merchants and the bikie gangs (as opposed to groups of bikers) are all sweet and innocent.
Surely I have misunderstood you

Cheers David

One would hope that even bikies deserve the same rights as the rest of us until a court has proven them guilty of a criminal offense.

[atky]

I'm disgusted that I have to parse an attitude test to have any rights

[campdog]

I agree, either arrest me or back off.




Is this something you really should be admitting to on a public forum?

Your basically saying "I am arresting you, not sure what for, we'll find soemthing to stick you with back at the station."

Do you wonder why people often have a negative attitude toward the Police?

I'd hope to God that comment doesn't find its way to the media, you'll be public enemy number one tomorrow.

I dont know about that. One offence can have a a lot of different charges depending on circumstances.You would be better to take them back to the station and then decided. If the Police questioned me about my presence with a camera taking photos of a train station, then I would know they are doing their job.
I just cant believe people can buy tins of paint and deface a wall and call it art, yet take a photo of it and you could be a terrorist.
John

[michael_sa]

Sorry michael_sa, I don't really understand what you are trying to say in regards to the last two links in your post

OK,
There are 339 police stations in Victoria. In a 12 month period, 100 (police employees) were "taken into criminal custody or punished for serious disciplinary breaches"

That's one bad egg for every 3 baskets.

I get the idea that you are saying the police are all corrupt stand over merchants

Emotive poetic licence, but no I'm not using those words at all.
What I am saying is that statistically, 1 in every 3 stations has a (confirmed) bent cop - how do you read it?

the bikie gangs (as opposed to groups of bikers)

There is no difference. A *bikie gang* is by definition a 'group of bikers'
"ah... it's just the vibe of the thing." huh?
One of these: seems appropriate.

Surely I have misunderstood you

Is it OK that a 50+ year old Ulysses motorcycle club member gets taken down by two Star Group officers because he was taking photos of motorcycles & Police?
That could have been you, me or any one of the people who would find interest in this thread.

For the record, I have no connection to the Ulysses Club or any other.
The last bike I rode was a Malvern Star Dragstar

The constant erosion of our civil liberties and freedoms is of concern to me.

Regards
Michael