How to deal with Police when out photographing (& Photographers Rights)

**ricktas** · 03-02-2009, 1:04pm

Members also have to remember that each State and Territory has differing laws/legislation, therefore what may be an offense in one State, may not be in another.

As was stated in the other thread, re copyright. Disobeying the directive of a police officer is an offense in itself. So, even if you felt you had done nothing wrong, you would be stupid to push the issue to far.

**NickMonk** · 03-02-2009, 1:07pm

Originally Posted by Chuq

Hi Nick,

When I read a post on another forum referring to this post as a "Really good discussion on Photographers rights etc. and Police here from a serving Police officer." with a link... I knew exactly who it would be before I clicked on it!

Edit: 0 posts?!?!

Hey Chuq!

What forum is that on?? Congrats on the second child on the way BTW!

**MarkChap** · 03-02-2009, 1:11pm

I cannot believe that people seem to be advocating "arguing" the point in public with a police officer.

I am pretty sure the first point Nick made is probably one of the strongest points.

If you FAIL the ATTITUDE test you WILL LOSE

"He who turns and runs (leaves peacfully, avoids unneccesary confrontation) away, LIVES to fight another day.

**Chuq** · 03-02-2009, 1:12pm

Originally Posted by ricktas

Your post count will remain at zero till you post photos etc. Posts to certain sections of the site, do not accrue a post count.

Thanks ricktas, nothing is broken then

I don't know if I want to force my shocking photos onto the more experienced members of this site, but I will dig up a few when I am at home tonight

Surprised this thread is in "off topic", I thought it is very ontopic for a photography site!

**Chuq** · 03-02-2009, 1:23pm

Hi Nick,

It was on Whirlpool - http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum...0939&p=12#r240

(Note their Photography section may not be immediately available to new users)

Thanks on the news, hopefully no-one else on this forum knows me as not even my family knows yet

**Kym** · 03-02-2009, 1:24pm

Originally Posted by NickMonk

Hey Chuq!
What forum is that on?? Congrats on the second child on the way BTW!

I posted to Whirlpool as they have a very similar discussion going on.

**MrJorge** · 03-02-2009, 1:44pm

Interesting thread and thank you for taking the time to put up some advice Nick.

It's just a shame that the world is in such a state where this sort of thing is almost required knowledge.

**Nicholas N** · 03-02-2009, 2:46pm

I arrest people every now and again and not know what charge I have arrested them on - but I do know that I can arrest them

Sorry but that just sounds a bit suspect to me, and unfair to the person who they are arresting. What happens if there ends up being nothing to charge them with? Or if they get slapped with some other charge just to make the arrest seem legit.

So Nicholas N ... are you suggesting an officer look up the exact crime first?

No, I am suggesting they should have some sort of knowledge of what they are arresting someone for before they do it.

**Nicholas N** · 03-02-2009, 3:12pm

How would you all feel if Telstra sent you a bill for $500 worth of phone calls, claimed they didn't know what calls you had made exactly but they know they can charge you for them so they will?

Everybody would be up in arms, going to the media, it would be plastered all over 60 Minutes and Today Tonight.

**ricktas** · 03-02-2009, 3:33pm

Your Telstra comparison is exactly the same.

Telstra sends bill / policeman arrests you
You call Telstra and discuss situation / You talk with police officer and discuss situation
Matter is resolved amicably- dispute escalates to telecommunications ombudsman / Matter is resolved amicably - dispute escalates to sergeant or higher.

Considering 60 Mintues/ Today Tonight are trash media, anyone with intelligence would ignore anything they put to air.

**pgbphotographytas** · 03-02-2009, 3:38pm

I have had some dealings with the police a few years ago (nothing to do with photography) and I found that if you are nice about things and don't come across as being a d!$#head you normally are ok, even when you are proving to them that they were wrong in what they were saying.

Paul

**Dizzy Photographics** · 03-02-2009, 3:49pm

I think this has really got off topic again....it started as a really informative post by Nick and has turned into a bit of an attack on him i think. At least that is how i am reading it, maybe i am reading it all wrong??

**Kym** · 03-02-2009, 4:01pm

Originally Posted by Nicholas N

Sorry but that just sounds a bit suspect to me, and unfair to the person who they are arresting. What happens if there ends up being nothing to charge them with? Or if they get slapped with some other charge just to make the arrest seem legit.
No, I am suggesting they should have some sort of knowledge of what they are arresting someone for before they do it.

The Police do have more than 'some sort' of knowledge - just they may not know the exact act/section at any point in time.

Do you know all the road rules - exactly - when you drive?
Technically you should as they have been gazetted by the Govt.

Originally Posted by Dizzy Photographics

I think this has really got off topic again....it started as a really informative post by Nick and has turned into a bit of an attack on him i think. At least that is how i am reading it, maybe i am reading it all wrong??

Actually I think most members are supporting Nick's position - I am for sure!

**davesmith** · 03-02-2009, 4:12pm

I don't think it's necessarily off topic, perhaps unnecessarily personal, but not off topic. Nick's statement, if read out of context, does suggest that the police in general can and will carry you away without exact reason why. Apply that to a photographer. In some cases, as Nick confirmed, it's obvious why, but also consider a police officer ignorant of the exact law regarding photography, they may see the photographer in their mind breaking some law and for whatever reason cart them away. The police officer in his mind believes a crime is/has been committed through the act of photgraphy but clearly not sure what. Is that different?

As for the attitude test, I will wholeheartedly arc up and defend myself if I have done no wrong. If that's costly down the track so be it, but I refuse to be intimidated if I am doing the right thing. I'm not that naive though to suggest it doesn't exist and know if I have done something wrong that "playing nice" will keep you out of a lot more trouble.

**kiwi** · 03-02-2009, 4:17pm

Possibly Dave, but, guarantee it wouldn't happen twice with the same officer. I think police have enough to do without wasting their time on a mistake twice in a row

It's always amusing the bravado that people have on paper.

I guarantee that no matter whether i thought/knew I was in the right or the wrong I would co-operate with a police officer on the spot.

**ricktas** · 03-02-2009, 4:29pm

It is great that this open discussion can take place, but please stick to the topic.

Any comments directed at a member, rather than the topic discussion will be dealt with (read, temporary or permanent site bans).

For reference - Forum Rule 3:
[3] Members should be treated with respect and courtesy. Members are requested not to insult or make personal attacks on other members. Remarks deemed to be libellous, defamatory, slanderous or offensive will be deleted, "Flame bait" postings, identical or similar repeat postings will also be deleted.

**MarkChap** · 03-02-2009, 4:31pm

Originally Posted by Nicholas N

What happens if there ends up being nothing to charge them with? Or if they get slapped with some other charge just to make the arrest seem legit.

**** Heeds Ricks Warning*********

Re written in a better tone
I think you will find that unless an officer was CERTAIN that a law HAD BEEN BROKEN there would be no immediate arrest.
Investigations woulde made into the incident and what laws applied, and if the police thought there was a case to answer, that evidence would be put before a judge and then an arrest warrant would then be issued by a court of law.

Police don't just arrest people for the hell of it with the intention of "finding' something to charge them with to make themselves look good.

**davesmith** · 03-02-2009, 4:34pm

It's not a matter of bravado on paper, everyone know's you can't win an argument with them and I'm smart enough to know when to back to down. I haven't let it pass that easily though. So even though you're well aware you're in the right, you'd move along without question?

**kiwi** · 03-02-2009, 4:40pm

Personally, I would ask politely what the issue was, probably state nicely what I thought the position was, but then if still asked to move on, put camera away I would.

Just being honest.

**Kym** · 03-02-2009, 4:49pm

I think security guards are a much bigger problem than Police officers.
They are just ordinary citizens with attitude

Again - being nice does defuse situations.

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