How to deal with Police when out photographing (& Photographers Rights)

[Cricket]

All very informative and thank you. I just ask that every photographer be sensitive to taking photographs of children whether they be in a public place, clothed or in swimmers and then placing those photos of said children on the internet in any form. Many parents go out of their way to ensure that their children's images are not freely available on the internet for some of our most depraved citizens so please do not make their efforts a lost cause.

[ricktas]

All very informative and thank you. I just ask that every photographer be sensitive to taking photographs of children whether they be in a public place, clothed or in swimmers and then placing those photos of said children on the internet in any form. Many parents go out of their way to ensure that their children's images are not freely available on the internet for some of our most depraved citizens so please do not make their efforts a lost cause.

I agree it is wise to ask first. However at present the laws of Australia do not distinguish about the age of a subject in a photo, except where the person is under 18 (or dressed to appear under 18) AND is in a sexual or sexually suggestive pose.

In Australia, a person (of any age) must expect to be photographed when in public. There is no such thing as privacy in a public place (beach/street/park, etc).

Whilst I think the 'intention' of 'protecting our children' is a good underlying message. People seem to dramatise the issue of strangers, when the vast majority of abuse of children occurs within the family unit, or from someone they already know. Strangers/photographers out taking photos, should be the least of their concerns.

[Colonel]

Whilst shooting motorbikes on the side of the Old Pacific Highway on the Central Coast (a very popular stretch of road for motorbikes) a police officer pulled up and asked me where my signs were? "What do you mean" I said. He then proceeded to tell me that if a motorcyclist happened to have an accident being distracted by myself taking photos I could possibly be held responsible! If I placed signs facing in each direction notifying oncoming traffic that a photographer was on that particular section then that would make everything ok.

If somebody knows the legalities of this situation then please enlighten me.

[ricktas]

Whilst shooting motorbikes on the side of the Old Pacific Highway on the Central Coast (a very popular stretch of road for motorbikes) a police officer pulled up and asked me where my signs were? "What do you mean" I said. He then proceeded to tell me that if a motorcyclist happened to have an accident being distracted by myself taking photos I could possibly be held responsible! If I placed signs facing in each direction notifying oncoming traffic that a photographer was on that particular section then that would make everything ok.

If somebody knows the legalities of this situation then please enlighten me.

Stupid. I wonder if a hot looking girl was walking along the footpath and a motorcyclist was distracted by her, if she would be held responsible for the accident? That cop was an idiot and needs to learn the laws he is supposed to uphold, not the ones the voices in his head are telling him.

[Colonel]

Stupid. I wonder if a hot looking girl was walking along the footpath and a motorcyclist was distracted by her, if she would be held responsible for the accident? That cop was an idiot and needs to learn the laws he is supposed to uphold, not the ones the voices in his head are telling him.

I think that is a great way to look at it ricktas. I don't understand his motivation to try and deter me from taking photos.

[thegrump]

In a recent challenge, rhymes with great, I saw a great opportunity with a great grate at a petrol station. Thinking that the attendant might get suss at me taking photos of a highly inflammable sight , I went inside and explained to him, that I was on a photo challenge and I needed a photo of something rhyming with great, and that I thought his huge grate running across his entire site could be a winning photo. He was more than willing to let me proceed. It also made me more relaxed so I could survey the possibilities.

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Whilst shooting motorbikes on the side of the Old Pacific Highway on the Central Coast (a very popular stretch of road for motorbikes) a police officer pulled up and asked me where my signs were? "What do you mean" I said. He then proceeded to tell me that if a motorcyclist happened to have an accident being distracted by myself taking photos I could possibly be held responsible! If I placed signs facing in each direction notifying oncoming traffic that a photographer was on that particular section then that would make everything ok.

If somebody knows the legalities of this situation then please enlighten me.

Years ago I navigated in a rally car. It was my job to give the driver ALL the info I could. On my first rally, I noticed a sign on the verge saying "CAUTION - Photographer" I did not mention this to the driver. The next thing that happened was a flash in the drivers eyes. This could have been serious as it was on a hair pin bend. BTW, It was a great shot.

[Colonel]

Years ago I navigated in a rally car. It was my job to give the driver ALL the info I could. On my first rally, I noticed a sign on the verge saying "CAUTION - Photographer" I did not mention this to the driver. The next thing that happened was a flash in the drivers eyes. This could have been serious as it was on a hair pin bend. BTW, It was a great shot.

I can certainly appreciate the danger of a flash in the eyes of a rally car driver driving at 10/10ths! It certainly would make more sense in my instance if I was using a flash also. Thanks for sharing your experience. Being a navigator for a rally car driver must require a lot of trust!

[Lance B]

Whilst shooting motorbikes on the side of the Old Pacific Highway on the Central Coast (a very popular stretch of road for motorbikes) a police officer pulled up and asked me where my signs were? "What do you mean" I said. He then proceeded to tell me that if a motorcyclist happened to have an accident being distracted by myself taking photos I could possibly be held responsible! If I placed signs facing in each direction notifying oncoming traffic that a photographer was on that particular section then that would make everything ok.

That's simply absurd. Driver distractions can occur with anything yet there are no requirements for those other distractions. What about a Cop with a hand held radar standing on the side of the road, which I would consider a much more distracting thing than a person with a camera. In fact, many people take one off photos of passing traffic or stand on the side of the road taking a photo across the lanes of traffic at say a point of interest across the road and yet there are no requirements for that.

[ameerat42]

I agree. The argument has to be extended. I have been distracted - well at first anyway - by the sudden
movement of those SCHOOPID roll-up signs. The world is full of stupid signs touting meaningless drivel.

[Cricket]

I got very distracted one day with two police officers strip searching a young woman on the footpath beside the road in the middle of the day. Hands down her shirt, up her shirt and pulling at almost every bit of clothing she had on. Now that, I found extremely distracting as a driver on the road. I also felt very offended for her as I felt that regardless of the crime she may or may not have committed they had no right to degrade her in such fashion in public view of many many people.

[thegrump]

I agree. The argument has to be extended. I have been distracted - well at first anyway - by the sudden
movement of those SCHOOPID roll-up signs. The world is full of stupid signs touting meaningless drivel.

am ... You just reminded me. A few years back while driving back from Geelong along the monotonous Freeway, I was distracted by a huge sign off in the distance. While concentrating on the sign and not my driving, on reaching a distance where I could read the sign, it said. "Loosing consecrations while driving kills" DOH

[Grant S]

I know a few ex and current NSW Police officers and the 3 I've spoken to say the bloke that told you off has no idea what he's talking about. None of them are aware of any legal requirement for signage when taking a photo roadside. Maybe he's a rally enthusiast?

[Liney]

Folks

First off thanks for a very interesting and informative thread. I'm still working though all the details, but the general thrust of the thread is good information.

The overarching rule I've always worked to is that I stay in Public places and only take images of things in public places. Add to that when I take the images I make it clear I am doing so, and what I am taking the image of, then no-one can be taken by surprise or accuse me of being sneaky.

I guess we are victims of the way technology and society have been moulded by the plethora of cameras on phones and laptops and the desire in some parts of society to take and publish images of everything they do on social media. A group of young women snapping selfies with phones and sticking them on facebook or whatever means that we are more likely to be photographed without our knowing about it, and no-one ever seems to be concerned with this happening in every street in the country.

Contrast that with a single photographer, obviously carrying a sophisticated camera and taking great concentration on looking for something to point the camera at. Whenever a case is reported of inappropriate images being taken of children, the culprit always seems to be reported as a single person seen acting in a suspicious manner. What people remember is what the media wanted them to concentrate on, unfortunately it's only a small step from the image of a single honest photographer to the single person holding a camera with other motives!

I have found myself on occasion framing an image then stopping and thinking "do I really want to take this image?" I've lined up a great shot of a fountain and some young kid wanders into my view, and while the image could well be enhanced by the happy smiling toddler, I find myself thinking about whether I want to risk having this image in my photo records. If questioned could I justify this image? Could I convince the authorities that I had no malice or evil intention when I took this image?

On the subject of putting signs up to warn people, as someone who works in the safety profession I get into endless discussions about signage and whether it should be applied to various scenarios. While signage has it's uses, it can also be overused and in that case it can be more of a hazard. Putting up a sign as a warning could lead the driver to be distracted looking for me when he should be keeping his eyes on the road. Saying that if I was taking images of passing cars I would ensure that I was not likely to cause a distraction or cause the driver to lose concentration.

[J.davis]

I was approached the other day for taking pics, all was OK, but, If you where asked to remove your pics from your camera, could you not ask the 'asking person' to delete the pictures off their phone too.

[Mark L]

I have found myself on occasion framing an image then stopping and thinking "do I really want to take this image?" I've lined up a great shot of a fountain and some young kid wanders into my view, and while the image could well be enhanced by the happy smiling toddler, I find myself thinking about whether I want to risk having this image in my photo records. If questioned could I justify this image? Could I convince the authorities that I had no malice or evil intention when I took this image?

What's the problem. Non-pornographic image of a youngster taken in a public space.
And Colonel, if you where in public space the policeman had nothing better to do, and as Grant suggested, he "has no idea what he's talking about"
A few things to look at ,
http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm
http://content.photojojo.com/photo-t...photographers/
http://www.artslaw.com.au/info-sheet...aphers-rights/

[Liney]

Mark

Agree with you in that the image is in a public place and "non-pornographic", but how many images of young children in public places do you need to have before you could be accused of "stalking innocent children"? People making snap judgements based on limited information, if I had 10 images on my camera when stopped and questioned about my motives, and 7 of those included children, it would not take long for someone to reach the wrong conclusion. My point is that we will be judged not by our actual intentions but by an interpretation of the evidence. The public in general may be more likely to believe the worst about a situation

[spootz01]

The problem I've had in the past isn't with police, in fact I've actually had police officers defend my position, it is with the general public. I was once borderline attacked by a mother who thought I was taking photos of her daughters. even when I showed her every photo I had taken that day and that none of them contained her daughters, and I pointed out that her daughters were behind me she still wouldn't drop it. It was only by chance that a police officer happened upon the situation and managed to stay level headed enough to realise the facts of the situation.

Some people just refuse to believe that they are wrong.

[Hamster]

I wish there was a rule about taking photographs of motorcyclists on the road. I've been photographed a couple of times now by government photographers sitting in Nissan X Trails. Both times they had the audacity to send me a bill for their work when I didn't even commission it!
Next time I'll point out they should have had a sign.

[I @ M]

I wish the was a rule about taking photographs of motorcyclists on the road. I've been photographed a couple of times now by government photographers sitting in Nissan X Trails. Both times they had the audacity to send me a bill for their work when I didn't even commission it!
Next time I'll point out they should have had a sign.

That is pure gold, post of the month ------

[Gazza]

I wish there was a rule about taking photographs of motorcyclists on the road. I've been photographed a couple of times now by government photographers sitting in Nissan X Trails. Both times they had the audacity to send me a bill for their work when I didn't even commission it!
Next time I'll point out they should have had a sign.