How to deal with Police when out photographing (& Photographers Rights)

[farmer_rob]

^ Just because they can does not mean they should.

What are they going to do about students taking pictures with camera phones?

[Scotty72]

Enclosed lands. And, I suppose that the principal can, within the law and DET guidelines, do what she likes.

But, that is not the point. There are often very legit reasons for photographs in education and she is ignoring many of the guidelines.

There is also the issue of the principal effectively telling her staff she does not trust them. Obviously, this will destroy morale and stop many of us from volunteering to do anything. Eg. we have all agreed the none of us will (even if asked) contribute any pics to the magazine etc. So, who loses? The kids. Due to the new suspicions, I have withdrawn as debate coach - I don't want to be in the position where I am alone with a very small number of girls then, have this 1 moron teacher think that is strange. So, debates are cancelled.

The whole thing snowballs?

It should be more than the issue of who is technically able to do what. There are other principles at stake. These apply both in schools and elsewhere.

These are the things that management and police should (but often don't) have the brains to consider before they persue idiot policies.

[kiwi]

You guys know my feelings on this, but, I thought worth mentioning that yes, legally they can stop you

[Kym]

I might add, that the acting principal of my school is joining the ignorance.
She has announced, yesterday, that all photograph taking is banned unless she gives permission on a case by case basis - permission will only be granted if 15 criteria are met.

Stupid, but yes they can do that.

She also declared that the thousands of pics that I, and another teacher, have taken are now DET property.

Patently illegal, further there was no need to delete those images.

[Xenedis]

What are they going to do about students taking pictures with camera phones?

Didn't you know that only DSLRs are a threat to the sensibilities of ignorant fools?

Camera phones and P&S cameras are okay...

[Xenedis]

Enclosed lands. And, I suppose that the principal can, within the law and DET guidelines, do what she likes.

Indeed, it is true that the foolishness of outlawing some activity doesn't prevent people from using the powers that are available to them.

But, that is not the point. There are often very legit reasons for photographs in education and she is ignoring many of the guidelines.

It stands to reason that the school's Web site and newsletter is going to be rather text-centric from now on.

Due to the new suspicions, I have withdrawn as debate coach - I don't want to be in the position where I am alone with a very small number of girls then, have this 1 moron teacher think that is strange. So, debates are cancelled.

Ouch. How was that received?

The unfortunate result there is that the students lose out; it probably won't send the right message to the fools who need to hear it.

[Scotty72]

There prob was no need to delete our pics but, we saw it as our form of non-violent protest .

She has no good faith basis for suspecting any wrong doing by anyone. She is simply follow this stupid society's eg and thinking that if 1% of people are bad, we had better assume everyone is a potential 1%er.

I believe she knows she's gone too far but face/bloody-mindedness is holding her captive. The stupidity of rules is often in proportion to the number of clauses to those rules. What started as a simple complaint by 1 parent (rather than her simply saying, 'No, I trust my staff) has now blown out to a 4 page document with 15 protocols and even more conditions outlining the context of each protocols. In other words, stupid rules often need even more stupid conditions.

I've had no comment on the debate thing. But, I suspect bloody mindedness will allow her to justify it until, she hopes, it all blows over.

Once again, the real point here for the principal (and police) is when you impose stupid restrictions on decent people, they lose respect for the rules and the idiots enforcing them; you get people bickering over points of law and not doing their best at work or in life. Sure, they get to feel powerful; that theirs is bigger than mine but, in the end, everyone loses.

Scotty


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[farmer_rob]

... in the end, everyone loses.

So true.

[Norman]

This is a great thread and i am enjoying the various viewpoints

I took these whilst on a three month holiday i UK last year please note they are not submitted as an example of great photographic skill , merely to illustrate a point and add something to the discussion

Police at a well known London landmark , police are everywhere in London and i found them polite and mostly charming people with a great sense of humour i asked these two if i could take their pics and the senior female officer replied ''clothes on or off'' !!! then said ''of course you can and thank you for asking'' !!

They then struck this pose ,,,,,




I had no trouble anywhere with police or any other authorities in the U.K. ( did not go to Scotland) i am a large bloke and with a Lowepro backpack and two Nikon pro bodies and lenses around my neck i am hard not to see , maybe its my grey hair and advancing years and my wish to treat everyone politely , anyway here is a couple i took in a feature series on the underground and railway stations





And finally a scene from a saturday evening sroll along the southbank of the Thames (for another series i'm compiling) which also includes many shops and arcades,

No hastles from anyone



I really do think ones attitude is a huge factor in the whole subject of street/public area photography i ask when i can for permission and make it obvious i am about to press the shutter release and look for a reaction and have not had a bad one to date well except for private security in Straya

Comments questions welcome

Cheers

[Lance B]

As a matter of interest, Scotty, does the school produce a yearbook with everyone's photo in it?

[Scotty72]

As a matter of interest, Scotty, does the school produce a yearbook with everyone's photo in it?

Since 2005 (my arrival here) until this year, yes. Although I deleted all my pics, I gave them to some of the students who were compiling the mag; It looks great. I do have to say, that with myself and one other teacher's pics, it would be only, grainy phone camera shots or mug shots taken on school photo day.

Rather, we have close-up shots of girls in action at swimming carnivals, sports carnivals, public speaking, drama nights, dance comps etc. (often I attend in my free time -unpaid) Most of which occur in very poor light. (if I remember, I'll post a couple of egs when I get home - they are no longer students here so, there is nothing preventing me - the girls already have them all over facebook :P )

So, it looks like 2011 will be a very plain looking year-book.

Scotty


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kiwi]

Scotty, at least at my local school on sign-on the parents all tick off (or not) an image release for pictures used for internal school use (newsletter, website, year book etc). I do quite a bit of "work" with my kid's school and based on that there are six kids that are not OK to photograph out of 400 and they are known and simply deleted from any publication by the school. I dont need to worry too much personally

[james derek]

More of a legal matter.
Does anyone know if it is illegal to set up a tripod in the water of a stream in the rainforest?

A pro tog told me he was fined for setting up his tripod in the water even though it was only 3" to 2' deep.
I believe it was a ranger who fined him.

[kiwi]

That's a new one on me James

[Kym]

More of a legal matter.
Does anyone know if it is illegal to set up a tripod in the water of a stream in the rainforest?
A pro tog told me he was fined for setting up his tripod in the water even though it was only 3" to 2' deep. I believe it was a ranger who fined him.

I'd be asking to see the regulation of that! I just googled and could not find anything like that sort of law.
Sounds like an officious little p**** of a ranger to me.

The only possibility is some generic T&C on entering the park about staying out of waterways etc. But even then I'd be surprised about the fine, or the legal ability to enforce it.

[Scotty72]

Scotty, at least at my local school on sign-on the parents all tick off (or not) an image release for pictures used for internal school use (newsletter, website, year book etc). I do quite a bit of "work" with my kid's school and based on that there are six kids that are not OK to photograph out of 400 and they are known and simply deleted from any publication by the school. I dont need to worry too much personally

That is what we have done for many years - suddenly, even that is not enough...

[ricktas]

More of a legal matter.
Does anyone know if it is illegal to set up a tripod in the water of a stream in the rainforest?

A pro tog told me he was fined for setting up his tripod in the water even though it was only 3" to 2' deep.
I believe it was a ranger who fined him.

It depends! Is the stream an eco-sensitive area in its own right? There could be a million and one reasons why certain streams are like that. Endangered creatures, aquatic plant life, erosion and degradation caused by humans tramping in the stream in the past, maybe there is a pest species already introduced and they do not want it spreading. etc. I think without knowing the full details, it is impossible for us to answer that one. There are quite a few areas where signposts advise the public to not enter due to animal/plant habitat. If there is a valid reason this stream is protected in some way, that is signed at some point along the track, or entrance to the park etc, the ranger has every right to stop someone placing a tripod in the stream. Just cause we are photographers does not mean we don't have to obey signage/direction/instruction etc.

Without full and accurate details of what/when/where this issue arose, we are not in a position to advise.

[beckscj]

Thanks to Nick for the thread!

I'm a copper as well and all I ask for is common courtesy. I'm not annoying you, I'm doing a job that can be thankless.

When it comes to taking my photo while I'm working I would rather you didn't without asking. If I have time I may say yes, but I will always be professional. My concern is that the photo may be used to effect my job.

Cindy

[Longshots]

Excellent comment Cindy. Respect is a two way thing. BTW Welcome to AP

[HappySnap]

I agree totally with you Cindy. I'm a copper too and a keen photographer also. I understand the want of my fellow togs to take photos and that not everyone's out there to do the wrong thing with those pics. All I ask is for the same respect I show you. Sometimes we need to speak to you due to a number of concerns. Once we know it's totally innocent and any concerns we or other members of the public may have had are unfounded - go enjoy your day and thanks for a moment of your time. Please there is no reason to have attitude from the time I say hi and introduce myself. A respectful and adult like conversation where everyone is heard and respected makes for a much quicker and less stressful interaction for everyone.
As for photos of me whilst I'm working I too would prefer you asked and on most occasions I will probably say yes unless I'm busy or believe the photo may affect my job or be deliberately altered in a negative manner.
And please i don't mean to offend when I say "you". I'm using the term loosely - I know the great majority of folks are respectful and understand what I'm saying. The 'you' is referring to the 1% who don't. And yes this includes the 1% percent of my comrades who could benefit from reading this too.