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Thread: How to deal with Police when out photographing (& Photographers Rights)

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    How to deal with Police when out photographing (& Photographers Rights)

    Increasingly people are becoming paranoid about photographers shooting in public places.

    As has already been stated elsewhere it is not illegal to be taking photographs in a public place of buildings or people.

    For buildings you need to be in a public place. Be sensible. I don't suggest trying to photograph nuclear reactors or functioning military grounds and buildings.

    For people apply common sense. Ask permission if there is an interesting shot, but of course you don't have to. Street photography doesn't always allow for this, but just use your brain. Don't take photos of kids if you can avoid it, that will just be a nightmare.

    For those that don't know I am a police officer. I offer the following advice with a disclaimer: Don't sue me if it goes pear-shaped!

    1) This can be applied to security guards too but bear in mind they have no legislative power to do pretty much anything different than an ordinary citizen.

    2) Shopping centres, sports grounds, community centres are public places MOST of the time for the purposes of 'public place' legislation - ie 'disorderly conduct'. HOWEVER they are actually privately or government owned and permission to be there can be withdrawn. The permission to withdraw the right to take photographs in such a place can also be withdrawn, as is happening in a lot of shopping centres these days.

    3) If approached by a police officer the first thing to do is BE NICE. If you don't pass the 'attitude test' you will not win. Ever.

    4) If they ask what you are doing be frank and open. Don't be smart. Say you are an amateur photographer or whatever, and that you are taking **insert genre here** photographs.

    5) Show them what you are taking and if they question the content (ie building or infrastrucure) explain why you took it. To a police officer the picture you took may be pointless (unless sinister). Let me explain. You take a picture of a boring everyday subject (say an electricity sub-station) with the intention of applying a brilliant photoshop effect to it to make it a work of art. All the police officer sees is a possible vandalism or terrorist target. SO upload some of your finished work covering all sorts of genres onto your mobile phone so you can show that you are serious. "See It IS art Officer!"

    6) If a police officer asks you to delete your photography, I would decline. THERE IS NO LEGISLATIVE POWER FOR A POLICE OFFICER TO DO THIS. Explain this very calmly and state why you want to keep it. If it really doesn't matter you can always do what they say of course (but I know I certainly wouldn't). If they do MAKE you do it then you have legitimate reason to complain about their actions.

    7) 99% of the time police are there because someone complained about what you are doing (usually they reckon that there is someone taking photos of kids). Remember this.

    8) Suggest a course of action politely (don't tell them how to do their job though - the difference is in your tone of voice). For example:
    "As you can see Officer I am not taking photos of kids/terrorist targets. Would you be able to let the person who complained know what I am up to so they can put their mind at rest. I'm sure they won't mind me continuing if they know what I am doing."

    9) All police are different. 90% are easy to get along with and quite sensible in how they deal with this sort of situation. About 10% can be quite cynical, impatient and/or arrogant. That is exactly the same as any profession, and like other professions they give everyone else a bad name. Also bear in mind very junior officers may make bad decisions and decisions outside legislation when put on the spot by an 'unusual' job. They are often the ones walking the beat that may deal with this sort of situation. Don't treat them with contempt though - you won't have passed the attitude test if you do.

    10) Police will often ask your name, date of birth and address. If you are not committing any offence generally you do not have to provide these. BUT you have nothing to hide so give them the details that they want so they can check you are not a criminal/terrorist/paeophile. It won't do any harm to you at all, and refusing might mean to the police that you have something to hide.

    11) If the situation starts turning bad for whatever reason do what you are told. It is better than having to deal with a much more serious situation if you don't, even if they are entirely in the wrong. You can always involve the media and complain about their behaviour to higher powers later.

    12) My gut feeling is that at least 95% of photographers that are put into this situation are male.

    13) It's not rocket science, but I see people that haven't done much (if anything) wrong, go completely down the 'wrong' line when dealing with myself and colleagues, and once tempers fray there are several legislative options available that can get you arrested. So - KEEP YOUR COOL!!

    Cheers!

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    Great thread. I think this subject has been on alot of photographers minds lately. Hopefully people can use some of your advice to help save them from being in deep water. I think the main point out of what you said is to KEEP YOUR COOL.
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    off topic but....

    I've always wondered, is it legal to take photos of the officer(s) and their equipment? like belt cars etc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by trigger View Post
    off topic but....

    I've always wondered, is it legal to take photos of the officer(s) and their equipment? like belt cars etc?
    Yes but don't expect them to be friendly about it. If you really want to do this make sure it is in a crowd situation such as a protest. Then they won't see what you are doing and can't do anything about it anyway.

    If I didn't want my photo taken I'd ask for it to be deleted. If this was declined I would know to walk away. Others wouldn't...

    Remember that being a police officer can be dangerous. One thing that we don't want is photos of us passed on to gangs and criminals etc - it is unnerving and we are very protective of where we live and who our families are. I'm yet to meet a police officer that doesn't have a silent telephone number for example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickMonk View Post
    ...Remember that being a police officer can be dangerous. One thing that we don't want is photos of us passed on to gangs and criminals etc - it is unnerving and we are very protective of where we live and who our families are. I'm yet to meet a police officer that doesn't have a silent telephone number for example.
    Nick, thanks very much for your post. Hope this can be stickied, if at all possible.

    Your point about keeping identities hidden is probably the most miss understood point about people taking pictures of Police. I think very few people understood this.

    JJ

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    Thanks JJ

    Quote Originally Posted by jjphoto View Post
    Hope this can be stickied, if at all possible.JJ
    Rick? Maybe it should, took me long enough to write it

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickMonk View Post
    Yes but don't expect them to be friendly about it. If you really want to do this make sure it is in a crowd situation such as a protest. Then they won't see what you are doing and can't do anything about it anyway.

    If I didn't want my photo taken I'd ask for it to be deleted. If this was declined I would know to walk away. Others wouldn't...

    Remember that being a police officer can be dangerous. One thing that we don't want is photos of us passed on to gangs and criminals etc - it is unnerving and we are very protective of where we live and who our families are. I'm yet to meet a police officer that doesn't have a silent telephone number for example.
    At the risk of getting a stern chatting to about it...I guess then thats why the spunky star force boys didn't smile at me when taking their pictures during a seige a few months back

    Must strongly point out too that these photos were never published anywhere or printed or shown to anyone other than family. We had an incident involving a number of star force officers and other emergency service personel just around the corner from home...the shots were purely taken to see how close i really could zoom in with the new (old now) point and shoot...i was pretty impressed really. After about 8 hours the hole incident ended without real drama...all precautionary
    Kind Regards, Deb


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    Being a devil's advocate for a moment, why do they respond in the first place about taking photos of kids ?

    It's not illegal it's not a problem and not the police's business, it's just fuelling suspicion.

    IF every complaint like this got 2 questions from the call centre?

    1/ is the kid dressed ?
    2/ is the kid in public ?

    if answer to both is yes, then why dont the police just say "nothing wrong here, thanks" and do not respond.

    When they respond then the public automatically SEE a problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi View Post
    Being a devil's advocate for a moment, why do they respond in the first place about taking photos of kids ?

    It's not illegal it's not a problem and not the police's business, it's just fuelling suspicion.

    IF every complaint like this got 2 questions from the call centre?

    1/ is the kid dressed ?
    2/ is the kid in public ?

    if answer to both is yes, then why dont the police just say "nothing wrong here, thanks" and do not respond.

    When they respond then the public automatically SEE a problem.
    Good point.

    JJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi View Post
    Being a devil's advocate for a moment, why do they respond in the first place about taking photos of kids ?

    It's not illegal it's not a problem and not the police's business, it's just fuelling suspicion.

    IF every complaint like this got 2 questions from the call centre?

    1/ is the kid dressed ?
    2/ is the kid in public ?

    if answer to both is yes, then why dont the police just say "nothing wrong here, thanks" and do not respond.

    When they respond then the public automatically SEE a problem.
    I agree but.... The police are a public service and there is a duty of care to check these things out. A member of the public complains, we have to make sure that there is nothing wrong. Happens with a lot of different scenarios, not just suspicious photography. Classic one is the dodgy car that is 'casing' houses in the early hours of the morning. Turns out to be the newspaper deliverer every time

    For every 1000 suspicious photographers one might be a paedophile. So we have to go to all 1000 to find the crook.

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    I fact more often than not we aren't called about things that we should be called about because people don't trust their instinct enough or think they might waste our time. Unfortunately when it comes to photographers they tend to call more than they should really.

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    Great thread. STUCK!
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    gee its great having a cop on here!
    thnx nick

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    Thanks for taking to write this article. There is some terrific info there. I always knew the law but it is great to hear it from a policeman's perspective.

    As Justice Dowd said in 2001, "A person, in our society, does not have a right not to be photographed’.

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    Police

    Hi All

    Well those who know me will know I used to have a website called morgs.tk and a business name Morgs Net - Photos from around Tasmania. This was a hobby business that actually made me a few dollars from my interest in photography and my volunteer work as a firefighter with TFS. Anyways I used to photograph Ambulance, Fire and Police Vehicles along with nature and anything and everything else.

    I attended a few scenes where police were on site including a structure fire (out of my brigades area so I was there as a photographer not firefighter) and walked past the first police car with an officer standing there he looked at me with camera (DSLR) and didn't stop me. I was approched by a officer a few moments later as I was turning the camera on and he asked for my name and phone number, at that time I had some business cards advertising my website so handed one over and went on to grab a few photos one which appered in he TFS fireground Magazine.

    As a volunteer firefighter I attended a few car fires and had the camera in my car the other guys knew of my camera and would ask if I had it if they knew it was a car fire or something suss as i would often take photos of the incidents (keeping in mind my first job as volunteer firefighter) but on two incidents my photos were used by police one was a stolen car and the other was taken at a vegetation fire.

    Also if you do take a photo of a police officer / firefighter or ambulance officer make sure they are wearing their correct uniform. I once took a photo of a firefighter who was at a job and was almost going to submit it to the fireground magazine however he was not wearing his full turn out gear and if the ranking officers saw this the you know what would hit the fan. I have seen similar issues with Police who are not wearing there hat for photos.

    We all spend a few dollars (some more than others) on our camera gear to enjoy our hobby so often something as simple as a business card, polo shirt with a business name on it is a good idea.

    Overall, Expain the 3 W's and you're fine.

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    already said but id like to add in my thanks. i always see this sort of stuff covering UK and US police and always wondered about Australia.

    thanks heaps
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    Thanks for the advice NickMonk. I spent 10 years working for WAPOL (not as a police officer), and I think your info is pretty spot on in terms of how to handle that sort of situation from what I saw and experienced.

    However, in general terms and from my experience of how things are done, I also think that sometimes too often someone who is incorrectly complained about is challenged and asked to move on just to keep the peace and make like easy for everyone concerned - except the person on the receiving end. In the context of this topic, I think it would be best if a balance was struck and the 'rights' of the photographer to go about their business were as valued as keeping busy-bodies and scare-mongers quiet. I think asking someone to move on for the sake of convenience runs the risk of actually confirming the worst fears of the person who complained, simply because the person's complaint was investigated and the 'offender' was dealt with. I would much rather the complainant was told that everything was OK and the photographer was entitled to be there. They would then be educated and 'their' inappropriate behaviour and concerns wouldn't be rewarded.

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    Thanks Nick!

    A very informative thread with sensible suggestions, points of view, attitude and responsible reaction. As seen from the police point of view.

    Cheers

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    I spend all day every day working very closely alongside the NSW police force, ranging from probationary constables right through to Local Area commanders .. and one thing I can tell you , is if you display any kind of arrogance or attitude towards them when they are trying to do their job, YOU WILL NOT WIN. So as Nick says, be smart, stay cool and most times common sense will prevail.
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    Thanks Nick - very informative.
    As a newbie photographer I still haven't got the hang of going out in a public place and setting up my tripod and taking shots.
    I have only done it three times since I bought my camera:
    The first time I had to go to a local shopping centre at night for a homework assignment for a photography course I attended - that felt really wierd.
    The second time was a couple of nights after New Year's Eve - I went down to Kirribilli for some Harbour shots. That felt OK because I would have been the odd one out if I didn't have a camera.
    The third time was the other day when my hubby and I went to Freshwater Beach - the other half took a swim while I took some shots. I received a lot of looks as if to say "what do you think your'e doing" but luckily nobody challenged me.

    Anyway, your thread has helped me understand my legal rights a bit better and hopefully I won't feel so guilty about practicing my new hobby next time I decide to do a field trip.
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