Cloud Backup

[Brian500au]

This topic often comes up in various forums. Up until now I think we can agree the reason could back up has not taken off domestically is most likely due to the speed of uploading GB/TB's of data. Cost has also been a factor (for me anyway).

I normally load all my photos onto an external hard disk tethered to my laptop and that in turn is back up to a NAS in another room. Every now and again I do a copy of my external hard disk and put it in a safe. This method has worked fine for me but it is not without its faults (break-ins, fire, and not copying over to the disk in the safe often enough).

Most of my non photographic data is kept in my MS OneDrive. I find this very convenient because I can access it from many different devices over a wide geographic area.

Recently I started investigating cloud back up and how has it changed. I found a place where the cost is affordable ($60AUD for 5TB of space). Around three years ago we moved from wireless internet to the NBN and more recently the infrastructure has been upgraded to fibre to the house - so this gets over most of my upload speed issues.

I have decided to take the plunge and back up around 3TB of data to the cloud. The initial back will take approx 1000 hours (give or take) but this is no inconvenience as it just runs in the back ground (had to stop my laptop from going to sleep). Once it is fully backed up then it becomes an automatic back up as files change. I can restore one file, one folder or it worst comes to worst the complete back up data itself.

The company I chose are based in Sydney and I have already tested their support desk for some help in the initial set up (and they were excellent).

[ameerat42]

Interesting. I still employ your old method - external drives (minus a NAS).
(My occasional fault, and which is current at the moment, is that I sometimes
delay in doing the backing up . Another fault was that I did lose data once
when a not-yet-secondarily-backed-drive packed it in. - That stung )

So, I suppose if you have the need for it, cloud storage/backup has its benefits.
All you'd have to look out for is a hack attack or a maliciously deployed EMP

[Brian500au]

With this cloud back up I am also backing up the data on my NAS - so in reality this back is just replacing the disks I keep in my safe.

[bitsnpieces]

I still have my external harddrive, but i do plan on backing up everything to my website, since my plan has unlimited space.

Not quite the cloud, but at least there'll be a backup i don't have to worry about one day rotting away lol

Just need to make time to do it ...

Cloud sounds like it'd back up quicker though, as uploads to this site seems slow, but I might nust be doing something wrong.

Price just seems a bit steep for it to not be unlimited space, compared to having a website lol

[Tannin]

Anyone backing up to the cloud, please remember that it is not 100% safe, not by any means. Companies large and small have been known to take shortcuts; over-worked IT departments of all kinds have horrendous screw-ups; hardware fails everywhere; hackers and digital vandals are always trying to destroy or steal stuff (cough cough, Medibank, Optus); and possibly the biggest risk of all, companies go broke without the slightest warning.

In other words, the cloud is just another form of backup, subject to much the same risks as every other form. There is only one safe answer, and that is many different answers. If you are backing up one way (any way!) it is unsafe. Many copies in many different places stored in different ways is safe. Nothing else is.

[ameerat42]

Some home (and cloud) truths in this thread
David (bitsn...), wouldn't it all be the same, ie, determined by your ISP upload speed? For instance,
mine's ~50/18, down/up. And, you certainly are backing up to the cloud - just your own bitnpiece
of it

[Brian500au]

I do agree with Tony - as I said my cloud back up strategy is an additional safeguard - not a replacement. This all came about as I was thinking - what would happen if I went camping for the weekend and come home to a house that had been broken into. Where as once I used a desktop - I now use a laptop, so even easier to pick up and carry out. Although I have an external hard drives hooked up to this laptop - that could also disappear. Additionally I have a NAS in another room which is backing up the external hard drive as files are added / modified - but once again this is a portable device. I also every now and again copy to another set of hard drives and keep them in the safe - but on my last check this was last done during COVID shutdown.

All my processed files are stored at Smugmug but that is a fraction of my unprocessed files, hence my reason to back up all my files to the cloud.

[Tannin]

That is good thinking, Kel.

I do something a bit similar. I have two copies of everything on external drives (currently 4 drives per set, so eight in all) plus a third, seldom updated copy on desktop drives which plug into a caddy, so call it two and a half main backups.

Another pair of external drives backs up all the top level files (i.e., only those remaining after I have sorted out and put to one side anything from 50% to 95% of the not-so-great shots). In other words, these two drives each have a full copy of the best 10-20% of shots. One of them lives with friends in another state. These are updated seldom, once every year or two, but that is OK because they keep the old stuff safe and I always have extra copies of the newer stuff floating around - e.g., on a field trip I take 2 or 3 external drives, plus my laptop, These are not the main backup drives and they get wiped once in a while when I update the main ones.

(You know all this next bit Kel and I'm preaching to the choir. No matter, I'll say it anyway.)

The two really important rules are:

(1) Have lots of copies. (This is obvious.)
(2) Never, ever have them all on-line at the same time. (Because then a single event - power surge, virus, hackers, major brain-fade, anything - can take out the whole lot in one hit.) You MUST have an off-line backup at all times.

(So how does one update the second backup except by plugging it in and copying stuff over from the first backup, making yourself vulnerable to a whole-lot-at-once failure ? Easy: you copy Backup A to a spare, blank drive, which then becomes the new Backup B. The old Backup B becomes the new spare.)

Does a NAS box count as "off-line"? No. It can be taken out just as easily as a hard drive. And you probably shouldn't count the cloud either, though that one is more arguable.

[arthurking83]

For those not aware of it, NAS is awesome, but as Tony said, not without it's issues too. Especially when always online, as most will probably be with default settings nowadays.

Many NAS brands have in recent months been affected by ransomware, some more than others AND multiple times. Quite easy to avoid, simply by maintaining updated firmwares and software(apps).

The most prevalent ransomware affecting NASes in the past couple years has been 'Deadbolt', which just encrypts all your files.

I recently had a mate that was affected by this on his Asustor. Luckily his NAS was his secondary backup point, his main being a drive on his PC, so it was trivial to restore all his files.
Took a while to figure out what happened exactly, and he missed the ransom note on his NAS .. but in the end turned out all ok with his restoration.

Some of us use NASes in different ways .. not just backup locations. For example I (used too) use mine mainly for backed up movies, and when connected to the TV, the kids used to be able to watch their movies more easily.
I personally don't use these services myself, but the main point here being the services running on the NAS. This is where the vulnerabilities come from.
All NASes run services, and the fewer that are running, the more secure the NAS is.

For example: I have a QNAP NAS, and the only superfluous service I used to run was it's app called Photostation. I used to run it primarily so it would index the files(again mainly photos) generate thumbnails, and I could manage the files without needing PC on. I could do it via the TV. It also had a viewing feature.
I've since removed photostation, due to lack of use, and once the index has been made, it's no longer needed anyhow. But the ability to show photos via the TV was kind'a handy for a short while, so I installed the safer Qmagie app(more secure).

The main point here is to be mindful of what services/apps running on the NAS.

And specifically for Brian here: you could have potentially saved a lot of "laptop on time" ... depending on what brand of NAS you have.
Many of them have an ""upload to cloud ability, in that you can backup your NAS to a cloud service too. That is, instead of backing up your files, and assuming that your NAS is a full backup of your files, you'd have a NAS backup routine enabled on the NAS, where it simply creates the backup for you on the fly.

As far as I'm aware, these ransomwares affecting NASes in recent times haven't affected the cloud service backed up files.

I don't really use cloud services to their fullest myself, but what I was thinking(as an example of how this NAS backup could work, would be to back the important stuff to (again just an example) .. Google drive(15Gigs). ... and another if you so desire .. thus making multiple locations of backed up stuff.

Another thing I DON'T do any more is to make two way syncs of files. Been bitten by that before, where I unwittingly backed up corrupted files to the NAS. While this isn't common nowadays .. it's always possible.

AND (I think finally) .. I'm pretty sure a NAS can be made to be both always online but partially offline too. That is, for protection of files from power surge type issues, you can individually turn HDDs on and off as you require.
This is what I do.
I don't use my NAS in the traditional sense by having RAID configs and stuff like that. I just use individual disks(JBOD) where each disk is it's own storage spot.
So my files are backed up to two drives, made identical every now and then.
I backup regularly to one drive(always on) and then ... eg couple of months, or yearly or whatever, the non active drive gets restarted .. backed up too and then turned off again.
Don't help if I have a break in and thieves steal the NAS itself .. but then again I'm thinking thieves aren't smart enough to know what a nondescript black box sitting in a dark corner, which is hard to find, unless you really look for it .. kind of thing.

Hope this makes sense .. and check your NASes(if you have them) for updates regularly.

[Brian500au]

Thanks Arthur - always appreciate your input on any thread.

I looked into backing up my NAS to the cloud and the company I am using do offer that option, but at a price (it falls under the business umbrella). The way I opted to do it was to map a drive letter to my Synology NAS and back up to the cloud from there. I am also backing up my OneDrive for any data I have on there. The company based in Australia only charge $60 per year for 5TB of space to back up files.

My NAS is configured to be mirrored - so once again just in case one drive fails (and I have had a drive fail in my NAS).

[arthurking83]

.... The way I opted to do it was to map a drive letter to my Synology NAS and back up to the cloud from there. I am also backing up my OneDrive for any data I have on there. The company based in Australia only charge $60 per year for 5TB of space to back up files.

My NAS is configured to be mirrored - so once again just in case one drive fails (and I have had a drive fail in my NAS).

Sounds like the way I do it(or how I'd do the cloud backup of a NAS drive) too.

I'm curious as to which Co. you use.
Are there any weird restrictions(eg. transfer limitations, etc)?

What I hope I can find as a service is a multi user, pay per Tb storage service, where I would be able to set up myself and my mate(ransomware guy) ... and anyone else that wanted in, that didn't cost the earth, and was flexible where you only pay for the amount of storage used.

The ability to sync with the NAS isn't vital, as any folder/drive could be backed up to the online space, but doing so via the (pretty much) always on NAS, which uses far less power than most PCs and laptops is handy simply for that specific reason.
I don't like to leave my PC on all the time, whereas the NAS is 'always on' so to speak.

EDIT: I forgot to add a potentially important aspect of why the NAS sync version could be easier/better too. If you use the native NAS app to sync to a another storage space, they almost always come with a compression routine, and if the compression is fast enough, it could save either space and or money in a per Tb service too.

[Brian500au]

Arthur once I am fully backed up I might investigate the NAS cloud back up more seriously. Originally I was looking at a few companies and reading a lot of reviews. I am starting to trust reviews less and less these days - seems it is a good way to advertise your product.

The company I eventually settled on based on price and domiciled in Australia is this company - www.idrive.net.au.

Do NOT get this company confused with www.Idrive.COM (which is a totally different USA based company).