Noise reduction; where does it fit in the workflow?

[Lani]

I have been searching for a post I think I remember seeing here that answered this question, but can't find it.
I have been having a play with neat image (trial version) and it seems to have a nice effect on portraits in particular, but I am not sure when I should be doing it. I know the general consensus is to sharpen last, but what about noise reduction, when should I be doing that?
I am using ACR, and CS3.

I have tried the CS3 noise reduction filter but am not sure if that is good enough compared to using a dedicated program.
The other one I am considering is the Dfine software, as part of a Nik software package.
Also , which version of Neat Image do you use, there is a home edition, and pro, some with the plug-in version, which I assume would be more workflow friendly?

sorry for going off on a tangent from the original question.

[Miaow]

If i do any I tend to do it after I've sharpened if I'm doing with with PhotoImpact mainly since I've found that sharpening can sometimes create more obvious noise.

I have Neat Image but haven't really played with it much yet

[mickeymoo21]

Hi Lani, for me nosie reduction is the final step in my workflow (well apart from resizeing for the web that is). I use neat image (trial version) as a stand alone program, I have found it to give exceptional results in most conditons. Also I am always working in tiff format and as you may know the trial version doesn't allow you to save in tiff only jpeg so therefore for me its better to work all the way though with a 16bit tiff untill the last step where it is then converted to an 8bit jpeg, of course if you were going to get serious you would want the full version so you could complete your workflow in tiff format and as a bonus your exif data would remain intact.

Michael.

[davesmith]

This is an excellent question, one I've never been able to find a good answer to either.

All the dedicated noise reduction software/plugins are relatively good at what they do. And I understand everyone will have their own methods and preferences for what seems to be the best method.

But at what point should it be used for maxmium effect, which I think is Lani's original point. It's widely accepted that sharpening is done last, but sometimes I do two sharpening routines, which doesn't go with that "flow". And I think if you apply noise reduction as a final step after sharpening it loses sharpness. From my experience it can "smudge" what you've just sharpened.

I often wonder if noise reduction should be done before anything (eg basic levels, curves etc), done mid-flow (after basic levels/curves adjustments, but before say, some saturation boost), or at the end (before final sharpening).

[Lani]

T

I often wonder if noise reduction should be done before anything (eg basic levels, curves etc), done mid-flow (after basic levels/curves adjustments, but before say, some saturation boost), or at the end (before final sharpening).

Yes Dave, that was what I was thinking too, and I guess it would really depend on the image, and the effect you were after. A bit of softness with portraits isn't really a bad thing, but for landscape and architectural type stuff, I agree it would defeat the purpose of sharpening. Ahhh, another thing to try and work out.

Thanks for the responses everyone.

[ving]

I often wonder if noise reduction should be done before anything (eg basic levels, curves etc), done mid-flow (after basic levels/curves adjustments, but before say, some saturation boost), or at the end (before final sharpening).

i vote dave most quotable person in this thread

noise reduction last... why?
adjusting levels, sharpening, curves, saturation boost, etc all work to make noise show up more.... try it
brightening an image make noise in dark areas pop out where as you may not have seen it before... this is why i do noise reduction last of very very near last....

[mercho]

Alright i have done a bit of testing. This is only basic as i dont know a whole lot about this process to start with...

Done using a combination of CS3 and noise ninja and a very noise source image (jpeg), which i don't know is that good a testing image...

1. Original Section of image 100% crop


2.Noise ninja reduction with 60% sharpening at a radius of 1.2 then CS3 sharpening


3.vice versa of 2.


4.CS3 noise reduction at strength 5 and 25% and de-speckled then CS3 sharpening


5.vice versa of 4.



The only major difference i can see with this image, with "basic" editing is that noise ninja has a far better noise removal system over cs3, but the image is a lot softer...

[ving]

PSP12 has a really good noise reduction which i use as the last step in my processing as it has an attached sharpener too. some times i do some spot sharpening after tho.

[mercho]

I use noise ninja which is an awesome noise reduction program, but i usually find it softens the image after the noise reduction process...

So for me it really depends on the image when it comes to noise reduction, some times ill do it last, some times ill sharpen first....

very very good question though ill be interested to see some more of the answers...

[Lani]

Hi Lani, for me nosie reduction is the final step in my workflow (well apart from resizeing for the web that is). I use neat image (trial version) as a stand alone program, I have found it to give exceptional results in most conditons. Also I am always working in tiff format and as you may know the trial version doesn't allow you to save in tiff only jpeg so therefore for me its better to work all the way though with a 16bit tiff untill the last step where it is then converted to an 8bit jpeg, of course if you were going to get serious you would want the full version so you could complete your workflow in tiff format and as a bonus your exif data would remain intact.

Michael.

Hi Michael,

just a bit OT, but what are the advantages of saving in Tiff as opposed to PSD, which is what I have been doing, up until I convert to jpeg before printing/web publishing.? Is there an advantage or is just personal preference?

[mickeymoo21]

Hi Michael,

just a bit OT, but what are the advantages of saving in Tiff as opposed to PSD, which is what I have been doing, up until I convert to jpeg before printing/web publishing.? Is there an advantage or is just personal preference?

Im not really sure if there is actually any advantage in useing tiff probably more a personal preference I think, someone who knows more than me may be able to awnser that better though.

As psd is the native format for photoshop (I think?) it may not be as widely supported across a range of other software?? But again I don't really know hopefuly someone will though

[ricktas]

I have moved this thread to the tutorials section as I think it deserves to be available long term. Some of the replies and examples are very informative.

Thanks everyone who contributed so far.