Nature Photography Dilemma - Raise ISO or Drop Shutter

[GorgeWalker]

So I guess, in short, I'm not really sure.

I'm in the IT business so tend to prefer to admit to user error before equipement issue (if you've ever worked in IT you would understand why ). So I'm trying to refine how I go about obtaining focus. I do attempt and try to remember to "feather" rather than "tap" the back button for focus. Practice makes perfect.

I think the other half of the problem is a lot of the time I'm trying to focus on a small bird, with a medium range lens at a fair distance away. So missing focus isn't the hardrest thing to do - if I'm off the slightest, well focus is off. Gray Fantail is a good example. When I've had the opportunity to capture a shot of a small bird that is close, I've had much better success.

I may try this test I Like to watch has recomended. At a minimum it will give me reassurance that my gear is spot on as I'm about 90% sure it's me, not the camera. As I do have some good shots that I would consider sharp.

As a quick test just 15 minutes ago I saw a spotted dove on the neighbours roof, and as I was comforable (slippers, board shorts and from the comfort of my garage door) I was able to fire off some what I think were some pretty sharp shots. I think this adds to my belief it's likely my own technique and ability.


Spotted Dove

[I Like to Watch]

I don't think it is comparing apples with apples.

The subject here is pretty well separated from its surrounds. The lens (looking for differences in contrast) would easily notice the difference between the bird and the sky. Your earlier shots had leaves and branches to contend with.

[GorgeWalker]

I guess what I’m thinking it proves, is it doesn’t seem to have issues focusing when I remove variables from the photo that will bring on user error. For example I pointed focus at the branch near the fantails head rather than the fantail.

I could be wrong of course.

[arthurking83]

With ISO, I'd go higher(as I've said before) due to the camera you're using.
If you had a D800, I'd say keep it lower(eg. ISO3200, maybe 6400 max!)
With the D3500, I'd go ISO12800 max, for two reasons.

1. better ISO quality at that level. Newer sensor design(same as the D5500). and the higher the ISO, the higher the shutter can be
2. you're camera is cropped by comparison to the D800, so with say a full frame(eg. D800) and a 300mm lens, you're already cropped, whereas with a full frame you need to crop more. Cropping makes ISO look worse than it really is.

But those maximums assume no cropping. If you subsequently need to crop then those higher ISO values would be lowered a little, say ISO6400 on the D3500.
Your lens is aperture limited(to f/6.3 at 300mm) so nothing you can do 'bout it other than get a faster lens at 300mm.
Any of the 150/200 to 500/600 mm lenses from Tamron/Nikon/Sigma will give you that, but they are big, so if out and about with the kids and ancillaries you need to take this into account.
So at 300mm, the apertrue will be more along the lines of f/5, maybe f/4.5 .. dunno exactly for each lens.

This then allows a slight stop down from wide open.
Your lens works better/sharper at f/8 than f/6.3. Those big lenses mentioned will work better at f/5.6 as opposed to f/4.5 or f/5.
Hope that makes sense.
This way you eliminate the wide open softness and lower contrast that a lot of lenses exhibit.

Focus. I suggest you try AF-C mode. This gives continuous focusing for as long as you hold the shutter half pressed. Shoot a short burst.
In AF-S mode you only get a single autofocus action out of the lens, and rigt before the exposure. Sometimes tho, the focus can be missed, or more importantly the subject to camera distance can change a very small amount during the split second between focus and exposure.
Why I've never used AF-S mode and only AF-C.

if you prefer AF-S mode the way the camera is set up is that it won't allow the exposure until focus is achieved.
So .. not knowing how you operate the camera .. if you focus and then expose you're allowing a greater delay between focus and exposure. Don't do it this way. That delay is what you're trying to eliminate.
When you use AF-S mode, don't focus(ie. half press)!! full press. The camera won't expose the shot until it's got focus.
This method doesn't work well in the bird in the tree brances shot tho(again, why I don't use AF-S mode), but will work perfectly on the dove image, as there really is only one thing to focus on.

So try AF-C mode, all you do is half press until you think it's right on the subject area you want in focus(usually the eyes), and as said before shoot maybe three shots in succession. Dump the ones that don't look so sharp.

[GorgeWalker]

With ISO, I'd go higher(as I've said before) due to the camera you're using.
If you had a D800, I'd say keep it lower(eg. ISO3200, maybe 6400 max!)
With the D3500, I'd go ISO12800 max, for two reasons.

1. better ISO quality at that level. Newer sensor design(same as the D5500). and the higher the ISO, the higher the shutter can be
2. you're camera is cropped by comparison to the D800, so with say a full frame(eg. D800) and a 300mm lens, you're already cropped, whereas with a full frame you need to crop more. Cropping makes ISO look worse than it really is.

But those maximums assume no cropping. If you subsequently need to crop then those higher ISO values would be lowered a little, say ISO6400 on the D3500.

I do often crop - with a 300mm and small birds I find I pretty much do 95% of the time... but yes, I have set my max ISO to 6400 as I have come to the same conclusion. The higher ISO isn't really that bad and I get better results with a raised ISO then a slower shutter speed.

Your lens is aperture limited(to f/6.3 at 300mm) so nothing you can do 'bout it other than get a faster lens at 300mm.
Any of the 150/200 to 500/600 mm lenses from Tamron/Nikon/Sigma will give you that, but they are big, so if out and about with the kids and ancillaries you need to take this into account.
So at 300mm, the apertrue will be more along the lines of f/5, maybe f/4.5 .. dunno exactly for each lens.

I think in the end, and probably soon I will be in the market for a 500/600mm. I do a walking with the kids, but also do the solo walks too. So with the 300mm and 600mm, I think both will get some good use.

Focus. I suggest you try AF-C mode. This gives continuous focusing for as long as you hold the shutter half pressed. Shoot a short burst.
In AF-S mode you only get a single autofocus action out of the lens, and rigt before the exposure. Sometimes tho, the focus can be missed, or more importantly the subject to camera distance can change a very small amount during the split second between focus and exposure.
Why I've never used AF-S mode and only AF-C.

I only use AF-C and have the camera set to burst. Have been using back-button, but given risktas's suggestion about torquing the camera when focusing, I'm trying shutter button focus again as an experiment as it feel like I'm not moving he camera too much when focusing as opposed to using the back button.



Just a general question to you all - when you focus on something in the viewfinder, release the shutter and then you're looking through the viewfinder again. Do you find your point of aim/focus point has shifted?

[arthurking83]

If in the market for a 500-600ish lens, consider the lens size/weight factor.
Been where you currently are and not always amenable when kids in tow and they want to scoot off here there and everywhere.
(my side issue is a bung knee too tho).

But Nikons 200-500mm is very good, from what I've seen the Sigma(Contemporary) and the Tamron 150-600's are also both good lenses.

Sigma Sport 150-600 is also very nice(I have) and so far with the limited use I've had out of it .. I like it very much.
Does feel very weird on the D5500 tho .. far too big and out of place(hand held), on a tripod tho make no difference.

Interesting that you're using the back button AF method! From my reading up, I didn't think that the D3500(my D5500 doesn't) have that feature. So if you do have it, I assume you use the AE-L/AF-L button, I suggest you stick with it.
Although it's easy to say with the larger bodied cameras like the D300 D800 and so on, I dunno how well or not it works on the smaller bodied cameras, in terms of ergonomics.

Have to go check the D5500 now to see if it has that feature too.

Also, technically it's called the "AF-On" focus method. Some cameras have a dedicated AF-On button for that purpose (I won't get one that doesn't have it foir my personal use). I use it all the time for every situation.
It allows you to control the AF a little better, I feel it's more ergonomic using the rear button. Keep the shutter half pressed all the while(for exposure).

Remember here too tho. You have consumer gear .. camera and lens. Don't expect professional level performance out of it. That could mean that AF can sometimes be a little hit and miss .. pretty much normal.
What will be satisfying for you tho is that when you do get really nice shots(and your later thread shows that) .. it feels more personally satisfying that they were shot with consumer level gear!

Now, if you just use [A] mode and retain control of aperture, you decide if you want f/6.3, f/7.1 or f/8. You may even want f/9 sometimes!! You may even want to drop down to f/5.6 .. zoom out to about 220mm on the lens .. instant f/5.6
But keep that AutoISO in mind, set the min shutter, use that auto setting set to one notch to the left(slower). So that at 300mm, you should get roughly 1/250 or so shutter, but if you zoom out, you'll get slower again, say 1/180 at 200mm.
Remember thats the idea behind auto shutter speed.
See how that works for 'ya for a bit, it may or may not.

But note that if you demand higher shutter speeds and dont' have enough aperture to allow these, then all you end up with is under exposed images, and at high ISO.
This is where noise will become more obvious, and why many folks say that "high ISO is bad", or "keep it low" .. etc.
In my mucking abouts with this sensor, I've never seen problems at ISO6400, as long as shots have been exposed well. Even with a slight crop.

Two images, relatively high ISO, not quite nice lighting(fluoro)
Both from the same D5500(same sensor as your D3500)
D5500_DSC_0183.JPG

D5500_DSC_0183_01.JPG

Guess which one is higher ISO. Try to guess ISO value, and also which one has had NR applied?
Both images converted in Nikon's (free) software, to which, other than NR applied to one image, no other editing done.
But both are uncropped.
Unfortunately the Nikon 105VR(lens used) isnt' the sharpest tool in the shed either .. which reminds me .. gots to get me a new Macro lens sooner rather than later. And it hasn't misfocused so much as it's a DOF issue in these images.
The DOF is so shallow, the focus is on the skin, with some dust/hair/fur detail, but the seedy looking things are recessed into the skin so OOF due to the thin DOF.