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Thread: At a cross roads (Sony vs canon)

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    Member shakes's Avatar
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    At a cross roads (Sony vs canon)

    OK. Apologies if this is the wrong forum, I wasn't quite sure where this best fitted.
    So after a decent hiatus I've got the bug again. And I've well and truly reached the limits of my old EOS400d and 50mm lens, but shoot to it's strengths.
    With 2 young kids and a mortgage I'm also very tight on cash flow for toys.

    My preference for shots is all over the shop pending my mood, moody portraits. Street Art and random shapes. and then Landscapes and stars when camping/hiking.

    I can see two options ---- buy a 2nd hand L series 24-70/105 soon, deal with it's shortcomings in the short term on the cropped lens. Then in a few months, purchase a second hand 5d. Pros being I'm shooting more sooner, con's are heavier and older tech. but it also takes the couple of lenses I have floating around.
    Option 2) and the one that I suspect is more sensible, purchase a second hand Sony A7x and equivelant lens.
    pro's being much lighter and better in low light than the 5d. con's are much longer wait.

    Both options are around $2000. hopefully less pending bargins found.

    I think I'm leaning to the sony, but at the same time. The wait will torment me.
    Any experiences or advice welcomed.

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    Member Toddyh's Avatar
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    I have zero experience with the EOS but have had a Sony A7rii for a few years now. For landscapes and still subjects it's fantastic. For moving subjects like wildlife or sports it's only OK. The autofocus could be faster. I've got some decent results but it's harder to get those results than it should be.

    For landscapes and astro it's awesome. Full frame goodness, 42MP and excellent dynamic range. It's probably getting outdated now that the newer models are around but still does the job very well IMO. If you can get one for $2k I'd jump on it.

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    can't remember Tannin's Avatar
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    Which of the six different 5D models are you looking at? At a guess, $2000 second-hand might be a 5D IV. If so, you will find it an outstanding low light performer. Its ability to get sharp focus where I am struggling to even see the subject just blows me away. If there is a better all-round camera made today, no-one has told me. But if you really are tight on cash flow, why look at a top-of-the-range model like the 5D IV? (Or equally expensive things from other manufacturers.) You could pick up a very capable 5D III or 6D Mark 1 for not much. And, of course, you would then retain full use of all your lenses.
    Tony

    It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards.

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    Member GrumpyD369's Avatar
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    Just adding my 2 cents worth, I have had both Sony and Canon cameras over the years (low to mid range cameras) and found both to be good reliable cameras.
    The picture quality of both was excellent, I was told when I bought the Sony that the internals for Nikon or Pentax (can't quiet remember it was a while ago) were made by Sony. Whether it was a sales pitch or not who knows.
    I went back to a Canon this time around because I got a better deal on the camera.
    Hope this helps.
    Gear: Canon EOS 77D Tamron 18-400 mm Lens

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    Ausphotography Regular swifty's Avatar
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    If all you had was one camera and one lens, then I don't think you're a system buyer.
    Which means you can basically consider yourself not tied to any system or brand.
    Get what you feel best suits your needs today, whatever the brand.
    I think it's a good idea to buy used now. If your needs change or the photography bug sticks and you end up actually wanting to buy a system, meaning multiple lenses, accessories etc. then it's not a large financial hit to pivot.
    But consider that we're at a period of transition atm and there'll be a lot of action in the FF mirrorless arena over the next 24 months. For a system buyer it might be prudent to wait and keep a close eye at what eventuates and not prematurely over-commit.
    Nikon FX + m43
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    Member Aus275's Avatar
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    I'm only very new to photography, but something i have learnt quick is that switching between different brands/systems is not easy nor cheap.

    If you want to go mirrorless then it is a good chance to do so. Canon also have mirrorless which with an adapter you could still use your current lenses, perhaps it is worth comparing their mirrorless to the sony you'd like?

    Sony lenses aren't cheap, which may be a factor to consider. Also rumours are there of a A7IV being released shortly which should lower the cost of all the other A7 models accordingly, so a bargain may appear there soon?

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    shakes's Avatar
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    Thanks all for the thoughtful replys. Added in a couple things I hadn't thought of. and gave me more to ponder.


    Quote Originally Posted by Toddyh View Post
    The autofocus could be faster. I've got some decent results but it's harder to get those results than it should be.
    Not something I'd considered thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tannin View Post
    Which of the six different 5D models are you looking at? At a guess, $2000 second-hand might be a 5D IV. If so, you will find it an outstanding low light performer. Its ability to get sharp focus where I am struggling to even see the subject just blows me away. If there is a better all-round camera made today, no-one has told me. But if you really are tight on cash flow, why look at a top-of-the-range model like the 5D IV? (Or equally expensive things from other manufacturers.) You could pick up a very capable 5D III or 6D Mark 1 for not much. And, of course, you would then retain full use of all your lenses.
    Likely a Mark III with change for a 24-105 lens or similar.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyD369 View Post
    Just adding my 2 cents worth, I have had both Sony and Canon cameras over the years (low to mid range cameras) and found both to be good reliable cameras.
    The picture quality of both was excellent, I was told when I bought the Sony that the internals for Nikon or Pentax (can't quiet remember it was a while ago) were made by Sony. Whether it was a sales pitch or not who knows.
    I went back to a Canon this time around because I got a better deal on the camera.
    Hope this helps.
    Having been involved in manufacturing, it's no suprise. It's not unusual for an indapendant factory to make several brands. Hence rumours like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by swifty View Post
    But consider that we're at a period of transition atm and there'll be a lot of action in the FF mirrorless arena over the next 24 months.
    Part of the reason I'm looking at sony, I feel they are out of the experimental phase that most of the others are now entering. Canon has also annoyed me a little going to a different mount again for mirror less.
    Quite happy to commit to a system at this stage. Just can't decide which way at the moment, mostly due to finances.

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    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyD369 View Post
    ..... I was told when I bought the Sony that the internals for Nikon or Pentax (can't quiet remember it was a while ago) were made by Sony. Whether it was a sales pitch or not who knows.
    .....
    Definitely a sales pitch.
    While it's true that Sony makes most sensors for most cameras, it's not the same thing as Sony internals.

    It's that Sony has the manufacturing resources to make the sensors cheaper than individual manufacturers can do themselves.
    Canon use Sony manufactured sensors too, in some of their cameras(but not DSLRs as I understand it)!
    But the actual reality is that Sony make the sensors to the specs that each camera company ask them too, all internals are manufacturer's own, even if they are made by other companies.

    another way to look at this: the internal processors, that is the CPUs that do all the hard yards inside the camera, are also not made by the manufacturers.
    But they are made by whatever CPU making company to the specs that the camera company requires. That is, Fujitsu or Toshiba(both CPU making companies) can be making CPUs for any of the camera makers.
    It means nothing in real terms.
    Think of it as the tyres on your car. Toyota don't make the tyres, they find companies that make tyres to Toyotas requirements. Same with much of the actual internals of the car(fuel injection, wires, sensors .. etc).

    As for the OPs specific dilemma: budget!
    Think of it in terms of wants and/or needs.
    What do you need? What do you want?

    Add into this what you currently have.

    From your opening post, you have:

    1/. a 400D and a 50mm lens. Any lens other than this 50mm will give you options. Does it matter that there are shortcomings(on a cropped sensor) if you get a 24-105 lens? The main advantage is that you get new options to shoot with!
    Also, consider third party alternative lenses too, Sigma's 24-105 is just as good if not better than Canons. Not sure on price, but more than likely cheaper too.
    Don't worry too much that the 24mm end may give the impression of a 35mm lens, so not as wide as you hoped for, but this isn't important(yet). The main thing is that you now have wider than 50mm.
    You did mention tho that you have a couple of lenses floating around. These will(or should) work on your 400 D too, if they fit the 5D.

    Seems to me that you need a new lens option.

    2/. you also mention that low light is an aspect you deem important. If you can, try to work out what the highest ISO setting you regularly shoot at and this will help determine what the issue really is. There is software that can help you with this if needed.

    In general terms, for lower light larger sized sensors always give better low light ability. So it makes sense that you'd want to go to a larger sensor size format camera like a 5D or A7(something). Question is do you really need it? More importantly can you work around this issue in some way?

    I haven't had much time to play with cameras in the past few years myself, but have always been a bit geeky up to then. From my point of view, up to A7ii series, I didn't like their AF ability compared to even my D300!
    The last mirrorless camera I played with(at a store only tho) was a Fuji of some type, not long after it's release .. maybe 3(or 4) years ago now. I think it was an XT-2. Also didn't like it(that much).

    basically the point I'm trying to make, is that it could well be that old gen mirrorless vs older gen DSLR may be a backward step(for similar expense in the second hand market).
    Nikon D800E, D300, D70s
    {Nikon} -> 50/1.2 : 500/8(CPU'd) : 105/2.8VR Micro : 180/2.8ais : 105mm f/1.8ais : 24mm/2ais
    {Sigma}; ->10-20/4-5.6 : 50/1.4 : 12-24/4.5-5.6II : 150-600mm|S
    {Tamron}; -> 17-50/2.8 : 28-75/2.8 : 70-200/2.8 : 300/2.8 SP MF : 24-70/2.8VC

    {Yongnuo}; -> YN35/2N : YN50/1.8N


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    Ausphotography Regular swifty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakes View Post
    Part of the reason I'm looking at sony, I feel they are out of the experimental phase that most of the others are now entering. Canon has also annoyed me a little going to a different mount again for mirror less.
    Quite happy to commit to a system at this stage. Just can't decide which way at the moment, mostly due to finances.
    Its true. I think it's always better to get into something with known facts rather than a promise so if the existing Sony system already caters to your needs well, there's actually little reasons to wait if you need something now.

    But a quick note about the mount change though. It is a necessity to switch mounts if they want to be able to exploit the extra lens design flexibility afforded with the removal of the mirrorbox space. Which is why both the new Z mount and RF mount lenses have been very interesting to me. But of course these all come at a price so may or may not be of any consideration to you.

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    Ausphotography Regular bitsnpieces's Avatar
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    I'd go with Sony only because we're not getting any younger. Although the A7Rii is only ok for auto focus speeds, it looks like you're doing more still shots than action shots, I could be wrong. So you'll want that reso.

    And if you're doing some action shots here and there, more tha likely, spur of the moment, out comes the phone. So unless you're doing shots particularly for an event or something, decent auto focus speeds should be very sufficient.

    Also, there are a lot of adapters for the Sony cameras, so more than likely, there could be an adapter to use your current lens also - just double check first.

    Image/lens quality wise, are you a pixel peeper? Non issue here (unless you are lol)
    Regardless, both camera systems have amazing lenses either way, so non issue here

    All in all, sony has a lot going for it. If you can wait a little longer, maybe the Riii will drop in price, I believe that syarts having very good auto focus.

    Anyways, in terms of the future, apparently Canon is releasing a camera with 8k recording. Will this be something you need? Will this be proper 8k or some crop rubbish? Who knows
    Up to you

    But you can't go wrong with either camera choice you have there.

    For me, I like the idea of something lighter.

    Just remember, Sony's battery life is only ok, but again, doesn't sound like you're don't anything specific that requires everlasting batteries.

    And another thought, Sony's new batteries for their newer models is very good, so getting used to Sony now may be beneficial (owf you see yourself upgrading and using Sony again) in the future
    David Tran

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