User Tag List

Thanks useful information Thanks useful information:  4
Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: The ODD, Lost Terabyte...

  1. #1
    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
    Join Date
    18 Sep 2009
    Location
    Nthn Sydney
    Posts
    20,604
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    The ODD, Lost Terabyte...

    Something struck me as very DD today as I was transferring files between drives:
    The 2TB WD HDD was suddenly - or was I wrong the whole time? - reporting only 1TB max capacity.

    It is attached via a dock and USB3, but I am CERtain that it used to report 2 TB max.

    Now I am very susspickious of it, and I'll have to get another drive to use in its place.

    Any insights into this tale of incipient woe would be appreciated.
    CC, Image editing OK.

  2. #2
    Ausphotography Veteran bobt's Avatar
    Join Date
    22 Jun 2009
    Location
    Blackburn
    Posts
    2,322
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Doesn't the actual drive have its capacity written on the outside?

    Otherwise, is there any chance it's created a new partition or something? Seems odd. What does it say when you go into disk management ?


    "If you want to be a better photographer, stand in front of more interesting stuff.” — Jim Richardson

  3. #3
    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular
    Threadstarter
    ameerat42's Avatar
    Join Date
    18 Sep 2009
    Location
    Nthn Sydney
    Posts
    20,604
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yes, Bob, it is on the outside in large print - 2 TB. I even used Hard Disk Sentinel, and
    still the same (now) 1 TB

  4. #4
    Ausphotography Veteran
    Join Date
    01 Dec 2011
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    3,303
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Wow, I don't like these nasty surprises, especially if the data is important.

    Can you copy all the data off the (dodgy) drive to another (safe) location as a temporary save/backup operation and then try formatting the (dodgy) drive using Hard Disk Sentinel to see if it can re-claim the missing 1TB?

    Cheers

    Dennis
    Dennis

  5. #5
    Ausphotography Veteran bobt's Avatar
    Join Date
    22 Jun 2009
    Location
    Blackburn
    Posts
    2,322
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by nardes View Post
    Wow, I don't like these nasty surprises, especially if the data is important.

    Can you copy all the data off the (dodgy) drive to another (safe) location as a temporary save/backup operation and then try formatting the (dodgy) drive using Hard Disk Sentinel to see if it can re-claim the missing 1TB?

    Cheers

    Dennis
    Yeah .... wot he said. That's probably the easiest way.

  6. #6
    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular
    Threadstarter
    ameerat42's Avatar
    Join Date
    18 Sep 2009
    Location
    Nthn Sydney
    Posts
    20,604
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ta, Dennis. That exactly what I'll do. Just going to get a new drive today.
    After that I'll stick this on through Crystal Disk and suss it out good. I could
    have swrn it used to read 2TB. Piddy, too, as it had a 235 MBsec
    xfer rate

  7. #7
    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
    Join Date
    04 Jun 2006
    Location
    the worst house, in the best street
    Posts
    8,643
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Could it have been(accidentally, or forgottenly) formatted as two logical drives .. or something to that effect?

    Check it in Windows Disk Management(or use some other 3rd party disk management software, such as EaseUS PartionMaster .. or any other).
    Nikon D800E, D300, D70s
    {Nikon} -> 50/1.2 : 500/8(CPU'd) : 105/2.8VR Micro : 180/2.8ais : 105mm f/1.8ais : 24mm/2ais
    {Sigma}; ->10-20/4-5.6 : 50/1.4 : 12-24/4.5-5.6II : 150-600mm|S
    {Tamron}; -> 17-50/2.8 : 28-75/2.8 : 70-200/2.8 : 300/2.8 SP MF : 24-70/2.8VC

    {Yongnuo}; -> YN35/2N : YN50/1.8N


  8. #8
    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular
    Threadstarter
    ameerat42's Avatar
    Join Date
    18 Sep 2009
    Location
    Nthn Sydney
    Posts
    20,604
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    No, I don't think so, but will certainly do as you say.

  9. #9
    Ausphotography Veteran
    Join Date
    01 Dec 2011
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    3,303
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    As a general rule, if I am nervous that a HDD has been playing up or behaving badly, I would replace it with a brand new HDD, as the impact of losing important data and archives is far costlier than purchasing a new HDD just for peace of mind.

    Cheers

    Dennis

  10. #10
    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular
    Threadstarter
    ameerat42's Avatar
    Join Date
    18 Sep 2009
    Location
    Nthn Sydney
    Posts
    20,604
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    How TEDIOUS. While copying files from the old (pretending to be a) "2TB" drive to a new
    (actual) 2TB Toshiba Canvio, I found three folders containing a number of corrupt files. This
    was not by dint of checking, but by the copying HALTing during each of several attempts at
    bulk transfer. So I had to go through about 90 GB folder-by-folder so that I could cancel any
    more glitches quickly.

    Now it's done, and I'll go back through those IFFY folders to see what I can recover. At least
    they are not essential, but a loss is a lss. After that I'll see whether I can "fix" the drive.

  11. #11
    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular
    Threadstarter
    ameerat42's Avatar
    Join Date
    18 Sep 2009
    Location
    Nthn Sydney
    Posts
    20,604
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    The Continuing Story...

    Well, the disk has not been formatted as two logical drives.
    It was until today initialised as MBR, but it's now GPT. The
    images below show the story (including that it's still not been
    formatted since wiping the partition this morning).

    Other impressions...
    Now I just dunno if I ever noticed that it was anything but 1TB.
    I got it 2nd hand from a cptr store for a very low price.
    Today I saw it is a 2010 dated manufacture...

    1. The "said 2TB" HDD...
    2TB-IMG_20191227_104601[1].jpg


    2. What MiniTool Partition Wizard shows...
    2TBHDD.jpg

    Solutions gladly accepted

  12. #12
    Ausphotography Regular gcflora's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Dec 2009
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    1,915
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Last edited by gcflora; 28-12-2019 at 11:00am.
    Craig

  13. #13
    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular
    Threadstarter
    ameerat42's Avatar
    Join Date
    18 Sep 2009
    Location
    Nthn Sydney
    Posts
    20,604
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ta, Craig. Interesting links.
    What a pitiable bunch WD is making of us!!!

    I also followed through to this:
    https://www.google.com/search?client...pacity+Restore

    and will give it a whirl. It's the principle of the thing I find irksome - that it's
    next to impossible to get what something is rated as

  14. #14
    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
    Join Date
    04 Jun 2006
    Location
    the worst house, in the best street
    Posts
    8,643
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Will be interesting to hear what the issue is.
    'nother thing to try(cos it's free) is WD own diagnostic software(see what it says and/or does)
    DataLifeGuard(DLG)

    HERE

    Very limited in what it does, really only shows information. Can be used to erase any data on the drive.
    Dunno if it'll show you it's full capacity again tho.

    Lots of other software capable of doing same .. this is just WDs version of someone elses software to do same .. just WD endorsed.

    Note tho, I don't trust it fully.
    As I've said previously, I have many WD drives.
    Also have the same model WD 2 Tb Green EARS drive too. Mine is dated Mar 2011 tho.
    What I don't trust about DLG, is that you can erase the drive(write zeros to it) to properly format it.
    When I try to do this to this Green drive, the erase dialogue box shows that the drive target for the erase is my 4Tb Black HDD(ie. not the green one), even tho I've targetted the green one.
    The 4Tb Black drive is where my main store of photos is held. I have backups, but that's not the point. For some reason it won't maintain the green drive as the correct target.

    But there is more to this too tho: Reason I asked earlier if it's been weirdly formatted in some way.
    Dunno why, but mine has been multiply formatted into multiple partitions. I'd never do this and not know about it, more so ... I'd never create 500Mb partitions(pretty much useless!), more so I wouldn't create 3 of them!
    So I have no idea how/why/what .. but it had 3x 500Mb partitions, 1x 7Tb raw unformatted partition, and 1x 1.8Tb partition.
    None of which were readable in any way by any software or any OS that I could get my hands on. It all adds up to a proper 1.8Tb(this is mostly likely the usable size of a (supposed)2Tb HDD.
    Just strange that all this partitioning happened to this drive.
    I have a feeling it had something to do with the way it used to be connected to the PC many years ago. I haven't had this drive connected for a good 3-4(maybe 5) years now. When I did, I used to use it via a USB enclosure of monumentally dubious quality.
    I finally worked out that this old USB enclosure was low grade junk, and I lost some backed up data because of it too.

    Connected via a better quality USB device(HDD docking station) I've now deleted all those partitions and finally reformatted it again to a single 2TB(actual 1.8TB) drive. Works fine.

    I remember years ago too(when I first started using WDs, they have a bit of software that also allowed the HDD itself to possibly update the firmware of the drive. No longer available, only for their bought USB devices(their 'My' devices) .. not for bare HDDs any more.

    If you can't get yours working, you can have mine if required.
    Works fine, can erase if you need(it's formatted now anyhow) .. actually just thinking, I may see if there is any recoverable data on it, as the format I did was the quick type(not the erase).

    Drives are good, they do use low power(5.4K RPM types). Over USB2 data transfer was good(USB2 was the limitation). Only reason I stopped using it completely was my switch to USB3, and this is where it showed it's 'deficiency'.
    All other drives(mainly BLACKS) that I have are 3 or more times faster on USB3.


    back to the anomaly of the lost data tho: I've never connected my GREEN to the M/board directly, and via USB whatever the M/board issue, such as BIOS limitations, USB connected drive won't be affected by this. USB only works directly off the OS, so BOIS in effect is bypassed. I'm pretty sure you said connected via USB to transfer files, so the M/board BIOS issues won't be relevant to your problem(or very very unlikely too).
    Possible maybe side note to this tho, are you booting up the machine with the GREEN connected, or connecting the drive after the PC has booted?
    Never seen or heard of that being an issue(the boot sequence thing) .. but maybe it could be if M/board BIOS is old enough.
    But the process is, if the machine booted up and then the USB HDD is connected, the M/board BIOS has no way to know that the HDD is even connected up.
    The only possible way that the BIOS issue can transpire is that the HDD needs to be connected for the BIOS to recognise it before the OS takes over the handling of USB devices.
    So in theory, if the drive is connected and BIOS does only see 1TB out of the 2TB that it is, it may report that to the OS, and the OS doesn't bother to actually check for itself the real capacity. I'd reckon very unlikely, especially modern OS like Win7. Win 98 type days .. maybe, but unlikely today.

    Only reason I can think of how it could lose half capacity, first the obvious bad sector issue(hence why keep trying software(like DLG) and do a full scan. I've never heard of any HDD losing half it's capacity due to bad sectors tho. A few MB, maybe a couple hundred MB's but not a terabyte of it.

    But secondly, even tho this is also a remote hypothetical .. maybe it's an actual hardware failure. HDDs work on multi platter-multi head designs. That is, there isn't one single disk inside with 2Tb of space. This specific drive uses a 4 platter design.
    So a remote possibility is that 2 of the platters(more likely heads) have lost connection in some way, just not reported. I know that HDDs do have the ability to report if there's an issue(eg. like that).
    You would expect the WD DLG software to know how may heads, how many sectors per disk .. etc..
    So maybe a full scan using the DLG could reveal an issue like that(I don't think it will, but I dunno, just a hope I spose) .. or some other issue.

    Curiouser and curiouserer! I'm always interested in the ins and outs of what goes on with stuff like that.
    But as said before, I have one that I won't ever use .. only because I also have a 2TB black as a .. I'll probably never use, as it's a backup, to a backup .... to another backup!
    I'd even offer you the BLACK .. in fact I will if you want it.

  15. #15
    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular
    Threadstarter
    ameerat42's Avatar
    Join Date
    18 Sep 2009
    Location
    Nthn Sydney
    Posts
    20,604
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ta, AK. I will reply to your Qs...
    Connection to computer: I have tried booting up both ways you describe, with the same 1TB result.

    Multi-platter/connection between: somewhere along the line of using several disk checkers I saw a result that there were two platters. But I'm where.

    ANyway, ta for the offer, but don't send it yet. I will persevEARS with this drive for now, as it is no longer
    going to be used as a serious backup drive.

    As a separate question, do you think I should get a Seagate drive?
    Reason: decades ago, when they were of the 5~8 GB size, I and a few acquaintances had [quite a few of them]
    crash. We managed to rescue some data by swapping mainboards from the drives, but it left a sour taste in my
    mouth at least. I have shunned them since. But now this is the 2nd WD brand drive to play up - the other a WD
    Passport that simply can't be read anymore. I've been relying on Toshiba Canvio 1TBbers without issue since that
    one. Now I have a 2TB version as replacement for the "EARS".

    - - - Updated - - -

    I ran that firmware program and have to report: nuffin's changed

    Still wkg on it, though.

  16. #16
    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular
    Threadstarter
    ameerat42's Avatar
    Join Date
    18 Sep 2009
    Location
    Nthn Sydney
    Posts
    20,604
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    OK, so, I read thru all the links and...
    tried the prog in my post 13. It chucked an error and then did nothing.

    Your prog ran, AK, and changed nothing.

    I tried the drive on a diff machine using the same USB3 dock, and the
    same 1TB shows. One thing I can't test is whether the dock has a limit,
    but it's pretty new, so I doubt it would have such.

    Still digging...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Nope! - Read 3rd "Feature" down: 2 x 8TB drives supported.
    https://www.volans.com.au/product/vl-ds30/

  17. #17
    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
    Join Date
    04 Jun 2006
    Location
    the worst house, in the best street
    Posts
    8,643
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My dock is a Volans, 1Tb shouldn't be an issue.

    Max disk size I have is 4Tb, so can't confirm their 8Tb claim .. no reason to doubt tho.

    Volans are a reputable manufacturer too(made in Aus too I found out later).

    I had a quick peek about possible issues, and looked for any software that could analyse what could be wrong.
    Only product/software that I found that could detect if you have a head/platter issue is called ... Atola Disk Diagnostics(Media Scan).
    I think this is also a standalone machine thing .. not just software.

    Can't find any other software that you could run that will show you the number of heads on your drive, they all only show sectors and size of sectors.

    As I have a similar HDD, I'm thinking we could do a comparison to see that may be different between our respective disks.
    That is, run a HDD analysis program, and post the info. More focused on sectors, size and number of. That's the HDD storage area.

    I have a few software tools to view HDD stuff, but as I used to do a lot of partitioning and stuff, I basically settled on EaseUS(PartitionMaster).
    it has a properties feature that should allow us to compare.

    eg. screen shot of my 2Tb Green HDD:

    PartMaster_WD Green 2T_info.png

    Ignore the Asmedia Mercury On the Go ID of the device .. this is just the USB3 chipset that the dock is connected too in my setup.
    Disk vitals are the important bits.
    Everything from the Physical Sector line and below are what we should compare.
    If anything different, then you have a physical defect in the drive.

    Also remember a 2Tb drive is only so, when they count in decimal, not 8bit values .. so a 2Tb drive has 1.8Tb of actual space(assuming standard 4K formatting).
    Cluster size(ie. how it's formatted) won't make that much difference. You lose some, but not half the physical size of the drive, and this is only true as you add (small pieces of) data to it. If all your files are large, then cluster size won't make a lot of difference.

    Anyhow, if it's formatted and works, the two properties you can view are the physical disk or the formatting of it too.
    Note how in my screen shot, I have the physical disk highighted(the blue highlighting on on the entire disk). This shows the basic whole drive info. If you click to highlight the actual partition, then click view properties, it shows you the same whole disk info, plus all the relevant partition info.

    'Nother thing to note. As mentioned earlier re some strange formatting, could possibly be a hidden partition(s). EaseUS can show you if any hidden partition(can't recall how exactly) but it does have a hidden partition feature if ever required.
    In saying that tho, that point won't come up on the physical size of the HDD itself .. only in an operating system that will abide by the setting that it's hidden. Eg. Windows will show 1Tb on a 2Tb drive, if it's been split like that, but a HDD scanning/analysis tool will still show the drive as a 2Tb drive. So extremely unlikely that this is your issue here(but'cha'never'know!)

    Would be interesting to see if any sectors tracks or head numbers are different on your compared to mine(they shouldn't be).

  18. #18
    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular
    Threadstarter
    ameerat42's Avatar
    Join Date
    18 Sep 2009
    Location
    Nthn Sydney
    Posts
    20,604
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ta. Looking into it...

    - - - Updated - - -

    AK. What is that, Easus, or Atola Disk Diags?

    I just ran Easus, but the interface is different.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Don't worry, it's obviously not Atola.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here are the results of the EARS drive. - About half the expected # of cylinders ...
    EARS-Easus.jpg

  19. #19
    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
    Join Date
    04 Jun 2006
    Location
    the worst house, in the best street
    Posts
    8,643
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yeah .. 1.95 T sectors as opposed to the 3.9 T sectors it should have.

    So either half the disk space is borked(errors) .. unlilkely, or two of the disk platters heads are dead.
    Note that, there are 4 platters but 8 heads, so each platter has 2 heads that read off each platter.
    One on either side of the platter.
    I dunno enough about how they actually work, other than pixie dust is sprinkled on both sides of the platter.
    ie. not like a CD or DVD where single side is used, both sides of the each platter are used.

    I'd say more than likely a hardware failure on the part of the heads, or electronics, rather than loss of sectors due to unrecoverable errors.
    Either way, whatever has failed, it's unlikely that paying to get it fixed is worth it.
    Headed for the recycling bin I reckon.
    handy to pull apart too tho, gives the odd photo op, and or just the learning experience in pulling them apart.
    I have a draw full of (maybe 10 of 'em) old ones used for just those purposes.

    ps. I've found that EaseUS is fairly good software for HDD management. Never had a problemo in the years I've used it.
    But I note you have the trail edition. if you want to keep it, there is a free edition .. what I use.
    Does recovery, OK when also coupled with other recovery software to confirm .. etc.

  20. #20
    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular
    Threadstarter
    ameerat42's Avatar
    Join Date
    18 Sep 2009
    Location
    Nthn Sydney
    Posts
    20,604
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ta, AK. I think it's a lost cause. I will use it as a "1TB Temporary Stuff Only" drive
    It's a piddy, because I expected to use it as a "robust HBB"
    I might head for a 2TB Samsung SSD (or not )

    - - - Updated - - -

    ^That was supposed to be "Robust HDD", but I suppose BB is just as meaningful.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •