See later post
 |
  |
 |
Thanks useful information: 15
Threadstarter
See later post
Last edited by davidd; 31-08-2019 at 1:44pm.
David
Nikon D810
Nikkor AF-S 24-120VR, Nikkor AF-S 16-35VR, Nikkor AF-S 70-300VR, Nikkor AF 50 f1.8
Tamron 90mm Macro
Porgess!- which is "progress" of sorts
CC, Image editing OK.
Threadstarter
Well, strange happenings!
Yesterday when I plugged my Multi-card reader in to the tablet, it worked fine, but only with SD card. It ignored the CF card. When I plugged my CF-only reader in, it ignored it.
I installed X-plore as suggested, and after fighting with it for a while, seem to be winning.
Today, when I tried the multi-reader again, it could not see either card! I then tried the CF-only reader, and it worked, it could READ CF FILES!
The Multi-reader works fine when connected to my computer.
When I plug in the CF-only reader, the app asks 'Allow X-plore to access Extreme 2.0 reader'. When I tap Allow, it shows the CF card and files, and allows me to copy them.
When I plug in the Multi-reader, it asks 'Allow X-plore to access USB reader' When I tap Allow, it just does nothing.
It would appear I need a new card-reader? Maybe get an SD only reader, and use different readers for the different cards?
Maybe the multi-reader is wanting too much power?
I also tried connecting directly to the camera. It opens a 'Camera Importer' app, which does allow me to import the photos from either card but will not show the files in X-plore.
However I am not fond of connecting the camera directly to anything else, so will keep this for emergencies only.
As an aside, the tablet is able to view the NEF files, so must have some sort of codec installed.
- - - Updated - - -
Now even stranger! The multi reader is now working, BUT ONLY SHOWING CF CARD. It cannot see the SD card!
This is doing my head in!
Last edited by davidd; 31-08-2019 at 1:47pm.
LOL! same here.Originally Posted by davidd
....
This is doing my head in!
I haven't tried my Lenovo M10, but obviously later Android has raw file support.
I knew it did raw files from the built in cameras(most models), but didn't know it had native support for other raw file types.
Progress
But doing my head in too.
Older D300 works fine, plug in, can't 'see' the NEF files, in that it can't decode them to view the thumbs, but still sees that a file type called xxxx.NEF is present and can do what I want.
This is just using the built in file explorer app.
raw aware apps can see the actual images of the NEF files.
D300 has a few connection modes when connected via USB, so no issues here at all.
So obviously Nikon removed the options for USB connected modes on cameras, shifting file transfer capability to the OS(ie. the various OSes out there) .. and Android finally got raw file support.
With my D800E tho, I connect the camera via USB, due to the apps I have installed(remaining) on the Tab 7, I get file explorer, Raw Droid and DLSRDashboard as my only three options.
None can see the files on either card tho!(the doing my head in bit).
I use File Explorer, I can see that a D800E is connected, as it's an option in the storage pane, but just black .. ie. no images(neither SD or CF).
So going by your desvription David, I'd say yeah... probably both a power issue and most likely flaky driver support too.
I remember seeing that max power draw on most Android devices through the USB is 500mA, so maybe the reader is right at that threshold.
Not an issue on any computer(PC/Linux/Apple) as they're usually more power capable(1A - 2A is not uncommon).
So a 'powered' USB device will be the better option. Dunno if you can get powered USB card readers .. could possibly try a powered hub.
That is, connect the card reader via a powered hub .. but then it's getting overly complicated.
Camera is self powered, so should be fine.
think of the analogy:
Connecting a USB connected SSD should be simpler as an SSD doesn't usually draw more than 500mA.
But connect a HDD, and the for HDD to be more stable, it needs to be a powered type. HDDs usually draw more than 500mA. Could possibly get away with using a lower powered USB HDD, but the risk could be losign data during transfer, just when power draw would be higher.
One last note on what I think we've worked out is the power issue:
Two things spring to mind. Search for a 'powered' OTG adapter and if you have some high quality USB cable, try them.
This could be an option for your setup, but I don't know.
I did try various USB cables, tried the Nikon USB cables too .. for me those times it didn't work, the cable made no difference.
eg. I tried the USB3 cable that the D800E came with, which is an obviously high quality cable compared to the flimsy micro USB cables that a card reader usually comes with .. no dice!
At the least! .. you know that the CF card should be readable, as I knew it would be, as I've never had issues.
My S8+ is close to 10year > tech, USB3 conencted, capable of higher power throughput on USB, so it's no surprise that it worked straight up no issues.
I'm assuming that the option to update the Galaxy Tab A isn't viable for you, but that is also one to look into.
A tablet with USB3 connectivity(like my M10) .. or any other with that setup could help with stability.
ps, For $230, best thing I did was update my TabII 7 with the M10.
Otherwise as a cheaper alternative search for a decent quality powered OTG adapter.
Nikon D800E, D300, D70s
{Nikon}; -> 50/1.2 : 500/8 : 105/2.8VR Micro : 180/2.8 ais : 105mm f/1.8 ais : 24mm/2 ais
{Sigma}; ->10-20/4-5.6 : 50/1.4 : 12-24/4.5-5.6II : 150-600mm|S
{Tamron}; -> 17-50/2.8 : 28-75/2.8 : 70-200/2.8 : 300/2.8 SP MF : 24-70/2.8VC
{Yongnuo}; -> YN35/2N : YN50/1.8N
Threadstarter
OK, new update.
I have purchased a new card reader. Unfortunately it has the same behaviour as the old one.
It shows the CF card and I can access the files with no problem, but is unable to see the SD card!
I have tried 2 different SD cards, with no result.
Why does it recognise only CF cards now, whereas the first day I tried, it would recognise only the SD card?
I don't think it's a power problem, because it works perfectly well with the CF card.
I have tried both 'My Files', the Samsung app, which worked for SD cards but not for CF on the first day, and X-plore, which works for the CF cards now.
A mystery....
Yes. - And almost all the refs to this problem point to SD cards not being seen.
So in a way you're vindicated - which is odd for it being a loss
1 more question:
when you test the ability to read the cards(both types) are you doing so one by one, or both at the same time(in the car reader that it) .. or a combination of both methods.
I assume you've done a combination(which I've tried) to no avail.
ATM for me, on my TabII, and with my current hardware, I just can't get access to any pics via the CF card at all on the D800E .. by any method. Noting that it's not a problem on the D300.
For me to get access to files off the D800E, I need to shoot onto the SD card and use that in the built in car reader on my OTG adapter.
That's progress I guess!
I'm guessing that if the need arises tho, and I wanted to get access to files off the D800E(or any newer camera I ever get) .. the Lenovo M10 shouldn't have such fragility.
I will test the M10 at some point, always handy to know it's possible to do it.
Threadstarter
It seems most of the problems reported are to do with the Micro SD card extended memory (internal).
My tablet sees the 128Gb Micro SD card without any problems, it is only the one in the card reader it cannot see.
- - - Updated - - -
Hi Arthur
I have tried a combination many times.
Plugging the Camera in using the OTG cable opens the Camera Importer and allows me to access both cards (although it doesn't differentiate between photos on either card, showing them all together sorted by date.
At least that's a win. I can't get images/files to show on my D800E(on the TabII).
And from this, then the issue is almost certainly(99% sure) to do with power requirements on the card/reader combo.
So again I'm (99%) sure that if you had a 'powered' OTG adapter connected the card reader to that, then you shouldn't have issues.
I'll post a (ebay)link to one I think will work, if you dare to give it a go.
On the assumption you have a microUSB connect to the tablet too.
Aus 4-in-1 OTG powered
Note in the description for most of these type of adapters, they says won't work with hard disk!
With the caveat that I'm no electronics expert, but have some experience with, the assumption with this device is that it won't inject more than about 500mA through the (micro)USB system.
USB can easily handle up to 2amps tho.
The fact that it has a charge mode is a bit of a bonus, and the additional USB ports will mean you can connect additional USB devices(to the tablet).
Even tho it won't connect a hard disk, which I'm assuming mean mechanical HDDs, and usually need more than 1amp(can't recall exactly, but I think 2amp is about right) ... I suspect it will connect an SSD tho.
SSDs (good ones) usually only need about 500mA to run OK.
If my basic electronics serves me well(which it may or may not!
At 5v, this equals 2amp for a HDD, and about 100-200mA for an SSD.
So with the above in mind, and assuming that the cheapo Chinese OTG adapter can supply a stable 5(or more) volts, then you could connect the SD reader with both cards and the thumb drive.
With this setup, you could then transfer the files on the cards(via the reader) directly to the thumbdrive, and or the mSD card in the tablet.
You could even try using an SSD.
In fact I'd recommend to 'build your own' external SSD device. Easy to do, happy to recommend some parts if you like.
For approx $80, you could have an M.2 based 250G SSD setup as the storage device, or for a bit over $100, you could extend that to 480-500G, in a thumbdrive sized little storage unit.
Makes it all compact and most likely usable.
May sound like a bit of hoop jumping, but that's only if you don't understand it all.
In reality, it'll be compact. Flexible and usable. The only unknown for me would be the ability for that powered OTG adapter to supply 5 or more volts.
Many of these cheapo USB devices can only supply say 4.8 or 4.9 .. which is close, but can be flaky if pushed hard.
None of the devices will stress the powered OTG cable, except maybe if it's used in charge mode to charge the tablet at the same time .. ??
On the basis of this thread, I've actually ordered a cheap thumbrive CF reader($10) to test it with my gear.
I couldn't test my recommendations above, as my Galaxy tablet uses it's silly proprietary connector(not a mUSB type like yours does).
Threadstarter
Hi Arthur, thanks for all the effort you are putting in!
I am not so sure about the power being a problem, as the system works fine for CF cards.
I have another theory! (I have a cunning plan!
When I connect the Multi card reader to my PC, it shows up as 4 separate drives (F,G,H and I).
The CF card is drive F, and the SD card is drive G.
My theory is that the tablet is unable to show 4 drives at a time so only shows the first (the CF card).
The solution to this would appear to be getting a card reader that only does SD cards.
What do you think?
+
As regards the SSD drive, I actually have a 250Gb portable SSD drive that I built using the original Drive C from my PC, after I replaced it with a 500Gb SSD.
It works fine plugged into the PC, but does not work when plugged into the tablet, so power is probably a consideration there.
Last edited by ameerat42; 02-09-2019 at 12:39pm.
Hi DD.
Though not AK, do you think it can only see one card at a time in the reader?
So, either it see a CF, or an SD? I mean, have you tried that?
OK, found some old hardware, not used for a good many years.
I've been looking for this from the beginning where my D800E via card reader couldn't be recognised.
Anyhow, I'm not 100% sure it's a power thing.
Reason is, the microUSB connection format(from the tablet).
I don't think it was just a new model syndrome situation where my S8+ phone could immediately see stuff without issue.
Now, with the caveat that my Galaxy TabII uses it's proprietary silly connection(based on microUSB plugs), I found the power adapter for my powered USB hub.
That is, I have a USB hub with has a power brick that connects to it and passes power through each USB port to help those 'high power devices' operate .. and not rely entirely on the Host device(usually a PC) to power it up AND transfer data.
Cant remember exactly why I needed a powered USB hub, I know it wasn't for this purpose(using a tablet to store files off a camera/CF card)
I think I've said a few times now, I've never had an issue with my Galaxy TabII and the D300, I think I remember using a card reader but it may have only been as a test. I used to connect camera direct to TabII.
So now, for me I couldnt' get the D800E directly working. Connected but no files to see. Couldnt' get either SD card nor CF card via card reader either.
Connected card reader to the powered USB hub, powered USB hub connected to USB port on the OTG adapter .. no issues. Actually not exactly true, but ...
Not only no issues seeing the cards, but both show up at the same time.
Without the powered hub, I got none!
CF card comes up as UsbDriveA, SD card comes up as UsbDriveB .. exactly formatted in this manner. The location of both those directories is under /storage.
RawDroid shows both USB devices under /mnt .. I think same difference, just something to note if you use multiple apps to access stuff. X-Plore as with File Manager under /storage.
The issue I had.
D800E raw files **directly from camera** don't show up on the CF card in the above powered USB hub setup! No idea why, other than some anomaly in the way the D800 formats the CF card. Could be similar with D810, don't have one to test.
SD card no issue tho.
I navigate to /storage/UsbDriveB (SD card) I see the 101D800E folder, and files.
do same with the UsbDriveA(CF card) and nothing, even tho I know there are two NEFs in there.
Format the CF card on the PC(Fat32) then load an NEF file off the PC, and it shows with no problem on Android.
***** Damned! .. made a liar out of me!
I just re tested again as typing, and now with the CF formated again the D800E, and a shot taken, it now works on the tablet too .. ahhhhh!
I'm assuming flaky driver/file/device support plus some strange formatting maybe.
CF card straight out of D300 onto SD card showed up no problem.
Anyhow, from this I think I can say with 100%(surety) that the issue is a power one.
I believe that with a powered OTG adapter ... *** note that it's not set to charge mode!!!*** ... as it supplies the USB devices with a small amount of power, they don't then rely on the Host device(ie,. the tablet or phone!) for power, which may be hard for the phoen to back charge(ie. supply enough power) back via the mUSB connector.
Looking further into it, I found that my S8+ can charge devices (has a mode for it) via it's cable to say another device. eg. if a friend had low power and need a small boost, with my cable(plus the adapter to suit their device) .. I can charge it.
@ David : re the SSD, I'm assuming a 2.5" type drive?
Yes .. they do consume more power, especially the older gen models.
Again, I'd say either a powered USB hub, or powered OTG cable will sort that out.
The SSD type device I was thinking for 'ya(or anyone else reading along) .. M.2 type 'gumstick' drive + cheapie enclosure ($80-100 all up) .. it'd possibly use 0.5 - 1w of power at the meagre 19MB/s transfer speed that USB is capable of.
Faster transfer = more power requirement.
Summary: powered USB hub is a PITA, with cables and stuff everywhere. Works, works well(except the anomaly with the first try with the D800Es CF card).
I'd say even a 1amp powered OTG will be OK. Not entirely sure if it'd power up both a card reader with two cards AND a 2.5" SSD .. but only testing will prove/disprove that idea.
Threadstarter
Hi Arthur, gee you're putting in a lot of effort here!
One question I have, how does the powered OTG hub get it's power? does it need to be connected to a power point?
Threadstarter
Another more serious problem has cropped up. The whole process appears to corrupt the Raw files.
I hadn't tried actually viewing the files in the PC after sending them through the whole process, but this is the result. All photos appear to be affected.
When I download the same photo direct from the card reader to my PC it's fine.
What now?
Image.jpg
Last edited by davidd; 02-09-2019 at 4:29pm.
No worries on the effort .. happy to help .. learn something, and just in case I need it at some point in the future too.
.. so all good.
Power to the USB OTG can be via any USB plugpack.
That is, you're current charger(s) for phone/tablet/etc .. there's usually a microUSB lead that will have the 'power' symbol (a lightning bolt).
If you're not close to a power point for your normal charger, then a battery bank would do the trick.
As said in my last reply too .. some newer devices with USB-C type ports may have the ability to output power via their connection port.
On my S8+, there's a setting that pops up, or I have to try to dig it out of some hard to find setting.
So I could use my S8+ as a battery bank.
I had a good look about for a battery bank/USB hub/OTG adapter and only found one device worth a look in(and even then, not applicable in many situations).
Device is the Zendure X6, but it needs a USB-C connector in, so for the USB hub to work, could be tricky (eg. on our tablets).
So, for the power in, you'd use either one of your current chargers to the device, or a battery bank.
If you want truly mobile and a battery bank setup, I'd suggest to avoid the cheap ready to go battery banks. 99.999% of them use really cheap nasty batteries, many instances soldered in.
Not only are the amp/hour claims stupidly overstated, the batteries themselves can pose a fire risk under charge.
You can get nice neat battery bank enclosures, where you insert your own 18650 type LiIon cells, and you get decent quality 18650 cells .. say 2600-3000mAh quality and good to go.
I've been looking into a battery bank setup myself, but when I had my old LG phone. It's battery had swelled and needing replacement. cheapest decent battery I could find as in the $30 range, and a battery bank was going to cost me just under that for some of the bits I'd found.
Lots of trustworthy U-tubers out there with the lowdown on how bad most of those ready made cheapie powerbanks .. and it's mainly the sub par battery components that cause the issue.
the DIY method is usually cheaper and a lot more secure in the quality of the bits you've acquired.
Threadstarter
Hi, further to the file corruption problem, it seems to happen if I use the Gallery app in the tablet to view the files. It seems I had better not try viewing them, just store them.
Update: The Photos app (by Google) appears not to damage the files.
AS far as the powered OTG, I would not really need a battery power system, I am sure I can do the backups when power is at hand, using my phone/tablet charger.
Last edited by davidd; 02-09-2019 at 6:08pm.
That would be the ideal.
But I'm also thinking of it from an alternative point of view.
eg. my holidays consist of a few days driving around the country(usually as far I can get too). Sometimes camping, sometimes just a quick couple hour snooze .. depends.
Mains is not a luxury in those situations.
I've fitted multiple USB charge points around the car, all 2+ Amp points for this(and other reasons) ... so my recommendations are more broadly based(I guess).
Always good to know of the various options.
Also don't forget that if you're holidaying overseas to have mains chargers that operate on those overseas voltages.
Soem years back, when brother went on his first O/S holiday .. he planned for almost all situations(including the battery bank thingie, which cost a small fortune compared to todays prices!) .. he didn't have UK and Euro plugs for his devices.
No problem, he went into the first $2 type shop and bought a couple.
But, I think having that ability to use your 250G SSD for storage would be the most ideal solution, and having the SD card reader, plus a few USB thumbdrives as emergency/secondary backup locations wouldn't be impractical.
To completely remove the possibility of any other corruption issues, when you do transfer, obviously use 'copy/paste' type transfers, not 'move' .. that is, leave files on memory card till you're sure they're OK.
And try using any raw file viewer app available for Android.
Haven't tried many, but I've found that RawDroid had always worked well for me. Always gave quick rendering thumbnails, so you could quickly see that files were OK-ish, and I'd open some files randomly to be sure .. to be sure
Back when I used to use the system to do backups on the D300, when on the road, I used to have a 64G mSD card on the tablet for storage and if that ever filled too close to the brim(always leave a couple of Gigs) .. I'd also have access to various thumbdrives.
I think I only ever used one 8G thumbdrive once .. in the couple of years I settled on that backup routine.
That would have been approx 2009-2012(maybe 2013 .. can't say exactly) .. 2013 I got my D800E, and never used the backup routine. Had 2 x 32g cards .. bu then they were better value for money in size vs speed terms.
In the D300 days, 16g would have sufficed(except that one time when I was out for 5 days or so) .. and it was single card only .. etc.
With the D800E the twin cards I think gave me a sense of peace of mind .. whether that was a false one or not ... can't say.
But from about that time, I've had less and less time to get out and do it too.
Threadstarter
Hi Arthur
One more little quirk I have discovered!
The X-plore app is unable to see the 128Gb USB stick. It quite happily shows an 8Gb stick!
However, all is not lost, the Myfiles app that came with the tablet CAN read the 128Gb stick.
But it is unable to see either card in the card reader.
Any ideas?
It seems I will need to use both apps to carry out the entire plan (backups in tablet and USB stick). Not a deal breaker.
Last edited by davidd; 03-09-2019 at 11:02am.
Weird.
Can't test for that, as my largest (removable)storage device is 64Gb. I had it managing files onto and off that mSD ard no worries.
Only possible thing I can think of .. maybe a paid for limitation?(just a guess, can't find
I had similar issues with the Files app built into my TabII .. had issues with the USB connected reader(odd stuff).
Other file manager apps to try are FileManager+ and Total Commander.
Threadstarter
Well, made another discovery.
If the SD card is formatted in my PC, it can be read by the tablet. However, if it is formatted in the camera (which it will have to be), then the tablet is not able to read it.
BUT the Tablet can read the CF card that has been formatted in camera!
Also, my Samsung phone can read CF and SD cards that have been formatted in camera.
The phone is running Android 8, the tablet is Android 9.
Any more ideas?
Last edited by davidd; 04-09-2019 at 2:26pm.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
