Photo delema

[J.davis]

So I really enjoy my time at the track taking pics. I share them on some facebook sites.
Last time at the track the raceway tog comes up to me and tells me off for stealing his business.
Since I started taking pics at the track, people have just taken my pics off Facebook and are not paying for his.
He shoots at several tracks, I, only one.
I use this as an outlet for my ex-Military mental condition.
I also take pics up in the mountains of the bikes, and yes, others do the same thing, but sell there pics.
Keep on going or not?

[Mark L]

If the track is on private property you may not be allowed to take photos to start with. Who owns the track? If local council it may be public property and then you may be able to take the photos. But even if it's public property do you have to pay to get into the event? There may therefore be terms and conditions that apply.

Last time at the track the raceway tog comes up to me and tells me off for stealing his business.

Tell him that may be so and ask for a legal reason why you should stop doing what you are doing.
maybe if you are stealing his business t's because you have better photos so approach the track managers and ask if you can become their official photog.

I have now idea really.

[J.davis]

Queensland Raceway, and no pic conditions apply for 'ride days'.
He can shoot wherever he wants, I'm behind the fence only.
I don't wish to sell pics, so if someone wants them, they can have them. Pretty easy to copy off Facebook.

[MarkChap]

I don't wish to sell pics, so if someone wants them, they can have them. Pretty easy to copy off Facebook.

And that there is the reason behind the track photographer being pissed off with you,
It would be a hard task to sell many images at all I would imagine and then you pop along quite happy to just give away your images, why would I pay for his, when I can have yours for free ??

Shoot all the images you want for therapy, but have the decency to not put someone else's livelihood at risk by giving them away

[ameerat42]

MarkChap. Spot on. Problem solved!

John. Give F-book the flick (re this) and give your free-loaders the flick too!
I mean, how do they help you?

[Gazza]

Sorry, I respectfully disagree with MarkC & Am...Tell him Nick off!.........His business and his insecurities aren't your problems. (Keep working through your own...)

I feel Mark L has asked the right questions and then provided a worthy and positive solution. You're certainly getting saleable results -

As for livelihood, has he ever looked at the quality of a downloaded facebook image? I suspect not...?
After Facebook compress everything into their tiny space you're left with nothing but crap! If he's comparing that to
his finished work, well, he's got more problems than you being out there and very legally enjoying yourself.

Perhaps he's 'Pissed off' or 'Worried' you may decide to sell your own and you'd have the better product...? Damn!!!!...what's this world coming
too when you can't do something nice and give your personal possessions away for free?

[Glenda]

The people taking your images off facebook are definitely not getting printable quality, whereas I assume the pro is selling full res jpegs. I'd assume the people using these wouldn't buy his either and would rely on family/friends phone shots if yours weren't available. I'd be interested to know if he is still selling more at the other tracks he photographs at. I certainly don't think you should stop photographing the events you enjoy, especially if it helps with your condition.

[blkmcs]

Sorry, I respectfully disagree with MarkC & Am...Tell him Nick off!.........His business and his insecurities aren't your problems. (Keep working through your own...)

I feel Mark L has asked the right questions and then provided a worthy and positive solution. You're certainly getting saleable results -

As for livelihood, has he ever looked at the quality of a downloaded facebook image? I suspect not...?
After Facebook compress everything into their tiny space you're left with nothing but crap! If he's comparing that to
his finished work, well, he's got more problems than you being out there and very legally enjoying yourself.

Perhaps he's 'Pissed off' or 'Worried' you may decide to sell your own and you'd have the better product...? Damn!!!!...what's this world coming
too when you can't do something nice and give your personal possessions away for free?

Spot on Gazza, although I might suggest something stronger than "Nick off".
Keep on keeping on John.

Mike

[bobt]

I have to agree with your freedom to take whatever photos you like and to post them wherever you like - as long as you are legally entitled to do so. The whole idea of sharing appeals to me, and unfortunately, professionals have to accept that individuals have rights too. If I give something away am I depriving some shop somewhere of business? If I give someone directions or travel advice am I undercutting some travel agent? We should all share whatever we have the capacity and willingness to share, as long as it's legal to do so. Businesses have to establish a business model that provides something more, otherwise they shouldn't be in business.

[J.davis]

Shoot all the images you want for therapy, but have the decency to not put someone else's livelihood at risk by giving them away

I am not giving them away 'persay', I am displaying my handiwork for all to see. Same as people post on this site and Flickr etc.

[Dan05]

So I also go to the racetrack and sell photos.

It doesn’t phase me is someone is giving the photos away but each to their own. I can see why the photographer is angry as you are cornering a market spot that he normally works and giving shots away. He can’t and nobody can compete with a free photo.

On the other hand, who are you hurting? You are simply shooting and posting. Isn’t that Instagram?

So how to shoot and not have this “gentleman” harass you? You seem to be there quite a lot so reach out to some of the clubs that ride there and ask if you can have track access and in return pass on the photos. You will now get a different angle as you have track access, you are shooting for the club so old mate can’t say to nick off and you still can post free as a bird.

And if someone asks how much, throw out a small amount for your time and effort. Put it towards some new gear. No shame in that. They are your photos and the buyer is getting your digital rights to it.

Just my .2¢

[Mark L]

And that there is the reason behind the track photographer being pissed off with you,
It would be a hard task to sell many images at all I would imagine and then you pop along quite happy to just give away your images, ......

Track photog is pissed of because his photos aren't worth buying and Johns photos are better.
Just conjecture on my part here.

[MarkChap]

Just conjecture -
Of course John's photos are better, they are FREE

Track photog is pissed of because his photos aren't worth buying and Johns photos are better.
Just conjecture on my part here.

[Snooks]

So when do people have to stop doing something that they love just because someone else believes that it is hurting their business ?

Don't we all take photos to enjoy the results, to share the results and images that we are proud to have taken? What is the use of him, me or you taking photos if no one else wants to look at them?

I certainly would continue doing what I am doing. I might just make a small compromise so that I show a small watermark on the images that I publish and if someone does want to purchase an image, they can ask me to do so and charge a small fee for removal. But that is only going to happen if he approaches me nicely, politely and with a good attitude. Any hint of a demand and the conversation is over and no compromises at all.

There is no crime in making a few dollars even if that is not your prime intention and if you feel that guilty about doing so, send it to a local charity.

You are entitled to enjoy your hobby.

[Mark L]

Just conjecture -
Of course John's photos are better, they are FREE

Regardless of that, maybe they are actually better photos.

[Geoff79]

The main point here for me has been made by several, and that is the fact that these images saved from Facebook are a completely different product to what the professional photographer would be selling.

The people saving low quality images from Facebook would almost certainly not be the same people looking to purchase high quality files.

Of course I could be wrong, but to me they’re entirely different products for different usage.

That said, jeez I wish I had the problem of taking photos I could sell.

Only other suggestion I could offer would be to change the settings on your Facebook page so only friends and family can see? But that may not serve your purpose? Either way, I tend to agree with those saying to keep doing what you’re doing.

[arthurking83]

I'd tend to agree with the tell him to bugger off point of view, and if he had stuff worth buying, then he wouldn't be so insecure about his product(s).

BUT!!! at the same time, why damage his ability to earn a living.

So what I'd do, is that if you desperately need to continue on with the photography/sharing therapy aspect of it, upload the pics to Fb at a low res .. something unprintable(800x600 or even less).
This way if anyone likes your photos that much more and want hi res printable versions, they then have to ask you for higher res versions, and you would ask for a specific fee.
How much you ask for is totally up to you too.

[Ross M]

As a similar suggestion to Arthur's suggestion of reduced resolution, perhaps watermark your photos somewhat "obtrusively". This, in addition to low resolution, reduces the attractiveness of copies from social media. The intention would be that potential buyers of the pro tog's work will be more likely to buy. This ignores my suspicion that there would be few such people wiling to pay, as hypothesised by Geoff, but it should placate he pro.

I realise that such a suggestion reduces the attractiveness of your shots and you would be quite justified in rejecting it.

I watermark all of my (worthwhile) Facebook photos, usually dead centre. I have encountered one instance of a car club cropping out my watermark placed in a corner.

I sometimes take photos at low-key Eastern Creek track days and race days. I haven't encountered your problem. In fact, I have seen pros chatting to togs over the fence and all looked very friendly.