Nikon Mirrorless

[ameerat42]

Somebody at Nikon mussta thought they were being klebba

[arthurking83]

.....

.... Long on promises, short on detail, and often product. Windows 9, anyone?

I'm more than happy knowing the likes of a Windows 9 never saw the light of day, and that instead we got Windows 10!
if Windows 9 was a lesser experience than Windows 10, and more importantly the same as Windows 8/8.1 .. I'd never have switched.

Once again, I'm pretty sure that the world expects that the Nikon mirrorless camera isn't going to be vapourware.

the definition of 'Vapourware' is a product that promised much, but never got released. (ie. never saw the light of day)
Nikon haven't really promised all that much as far I've read so far.

If they(Nikon) believe that they have a 'speed advantage' of some type .. why is that to be considered marketing guff?
Without knowing the specs, we can only take Nikon on it's word that there is going to be a speed advantage of some type.
Unless anyone knows the specifics of the camera and can say with absolute certainty that there is none .. then the arguments put forward so far are meaningless.

What if it transpires after the product is released, that there is no marketing hype, and this new product does indeed have a speed advantage of some type over it's current competitors.
Wouldn't you expect your company's marketing department to seize on that advantage and tease bits of this info prior to the official announcement?

I think there's a bit too much derogatory sentiment here considering the lack of any actual specs or product details made.

If Nikon hadn't used this type of marketing strategy for this new high end mirrorless product, I for one(with no knowledge, and no interest as yet, myself) would have been disappointed in Nikon.
The assumption I'd have made would be that Nikon have totally abandoned the idea of marketing altogether.
For their own sake this strategy is not only expected .. in a way it's demanded nowadays.

I think your comments have been a bit harsh.

As stated already(Swifty post #17 above) .. revisit the thread on or about Aug 23rd, once the hardware is out there and more is known about it .. then feel free to make harsh and/or critical comments.

[John King]

Arthur, I'm not making harsh critical comments ...

However, IIRC Nikon did promise some other kind of system before that was cancelled after much obfuscation and no product, so the company (among plenty of others ... ) has prior form .

[ameerat42]

I agree. I don't think the comments are harsh. Some people think that sort of release is "good",
and others don't.

[arthurking83]

Arthur, I'm not making harsh critical comments ...

However, IIRC Nikon did promise some other kind of system before that was cancelled after much obfuscation and no product, so the company (among plenty of others ... ) has prior form .

They announced that they had 3 compact cameras 1" sensors, fixed lenses ... not really the same thing.
Development/accounting teams realised that they would be too expensive to make, and subsequently try to sell at a reasonable price .. so before they went into production the decision was made not to progress to that point.

not really the same thing. The product was there .. the camera market collapsed right about the time the cameras were due to be released.
Point to note is that (going from Dave Etchells recent article re Nikon sensor development) it seems that a cameras development period is roughly 4 or so years(from idea to production point) .. and back then in that 4 year period was when the major ILC camera market decline hitit's most severe slump.

So no! Not the same thing. Not a system, but three distinct non ILC cameras.

Unlike the other manufacturers(namely Olympus/Fuji/Pentax(Ricoh)/Sony/and any others) Nikon don't have a major corporation behind them to absorb huge losses of an imaging subsidiary. So the 'imaging' department needs to be accountable to the accountants!

- - - Updated - - -

I agree. I don't think the comments are harsh. Some people think that sort of release is "good",
and others don't.

Actually Am, it is(ie. they are).

The comments being made deride Nikon's 'promise' or claim of speed, or light .. or whatever .. yet this is just marketing hype.
No product details yet realeased, so no one knows what this 'promise' is relating too.

Is it related to physical speed. ie. frame rate advance.. as in going after the Sony A9's 20fps super frame rate?
or is it relating to high ISO quality .. as in potentially ISO104K gain with the quality of current ISO6400 noise levels?

My point is that the marketing is being 'refuted' here, but with no basis of fact.

eg. Nikon says "ongoing mission of heading into the future".
Why is that a bad thing?
We don't know Nikon's product planning for the future, but what if this is a pointer that they want to eventually cease all DSLR development and production and switch to mirrorless.

Wouldn't such a claim be a representation of fact if that is their future goal?

From your point of view, it's nothing, mirrorless to you is already omnipresent.
But from Nikon's point of view .. primarily a DSLR manufacturer mirrorless is a new future.
The way I'm seeing this marketing is that it's probably aimed at the likes of the Me's of this world.
Me, being a DSLR dinosaur! I have no interest in going mirrorless. As of yet I'm yet to find one that 'fit's my hand' so to speak. I don't like the current dinky electronic viewfinders.
(IMO) OVFs still offer the best overall performance.
If Nikon have made some new fangled 'klebber' breakthrough that turns an electronic display into an analogue display(ie. no latency/dynamic range), then maybe I'm wrong about mirrorless.
Won't know this till I get my hands on one.
it is incumbent on Nikon's marketing dept. to create the hype to get dinosaurs like me interested.

I'm not taking other folks word for it any longer .. that this new product is leaps and bounds ahead of OVF .. been there, hated that .. no longer trust those comments.

[John King]

Arthur, methinks you are reading far more into a few simple sentences I have written than I have actually written ...

I am also very pro diversity of choice in cameras, and everything else. Both of my businesses have involved helping my clients to make decisions that suit them, not my making decisions for them.

[arthurking83]

Arthur, methinks you are reading far more into a few simple sentences I have written than I have actually written ...

....

true.

it was actually your comments that compelled me to go to Nikon's teaser site to see and read this supposed marketing hype for myself.

I found none to speak of, and came back here asking questions. Seeking clarity I suppose.

I've seen and read more hyperbole on other manufacturers product sites for certain products that are 'in the flesh' ... that never rated a peep from anyone.

I just found it interesting that Nikon suddenly became a target.
And I guess I found it even more interesting that this specific product receives all this commentary, yet the same marketing strategy didn't for the Df and D850(that I can remember in recent times).

[Bear Dale]

I've tried a few mirrorless cams and the EVF's make me feel seasick. I'll be sticking to dSLR's and OVF's for a long time yet.

It's interesting reading the tsunami of comments on tog sites though, its like mirrorless is the second coming of Christ. You get one of these mirrorless cam's in your hand and your photos are just going to be BETTER!

There may be some bargain F mount lenses (and FF bodies abounding) if droves of people love and take up the new Z mount.

It is entertaining to read about all this new tech coming, but its still more fun using the tech that you actually own and getting out and taking photos.

[swifty]

We get a glimpse of the grip this time:

Via Nikonrumors:
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/07/27/m...wn-timer.aspx/

[richardb]

Agree 100%.

[swifty]

Second video teaser is out:

[arthurking83]

Another new video uploaded recently to their site(and youtube):



Shows a bit more details on the mount design.
Obviously the mount is different in a total sense, but some interesting differences I noted:
F mount(and S mount before this one) both used a three pronged flange design.
New one uses four pronged flange(that is 4 cut outs).
On some devices I have(old manual adapters and stuff) it was always easy to get the flange oriented incorrectly before you realised it.
Harder with lens to camera, due to various factors .. but adapters were easy to mess up fitment.

Also, the number of electronic comms lines. On the f-mount they had increased over time from AF to AFS, and ended up being 10 comms lines for the last few years due to AF-S and whatnot.
New mount has 11 lines. That is the dots that do the comms between camera and lens.

On the topic of marketing: .. seems entirely appropriate for Nikon to make the claim of "leaping into a new dimension" .. new mount is literally a totally new dimension when viewed from the point of view of the old mount types!
If it's also hinting at any other dimensional perspective, parallel, alignment or shift .... I know nothing and care little!!

Only inconsistency about that marketing hype tho, is the fact that their mount designs are only 60 odd years old, and no where near 100 years old.
Company itself is 100 years old now, but only in terms of optics .. not cameras.

Anyhow! .. it's their birthday(celebration) and they're free to do as they please.

[Nick Cliff]

Perhaps Nikon is having it's Nokia moment
Seriously the Japanese patent system made it hard for other companies to emulate great innovations in technology, perhaps this has changed.
There was a problem with quad runner bikes and different ways of mounting engines and also with the steering on their various makes of cars as each manufacturer had to use different designs.

cheers Nick

[swifty]

Looks like a Panasonic G9
Or if we're going back in history, kinda reminds me of an F100.

[swifty]

From https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/05/a...e-leaked.aspx/

We get a pretty good look at the top plate.

[richardb]

You all see a wrong cam mock-up

[cupic]

Some Say this will stretch the marriage of Men will GAS
Me on the other hand will look to sell sell sell to the newer system....But will keep the glass


cheers

[arthurking83]

Nikon Rumours have just posted so called 'official press images of the two cameras Z7 and Z6.

Nikon Z6 and Z7 mirrorless on NR

My current thinking:

* subject to an EVF that doesn't make me feel queezy! ... the grip looks nice(for my taste).
My primary camera feature when I decide to make a purchase is it's grip.
No 1 ergonomic feature by a long shot.
No 2 is then viewfinder. I still haven't found an EVF that I think won't make me seasick after a couple of minutes use. (ie. still not a fan)

So I'm currently more than keen to get a hold of one ASAP.

[arthurking83]

Nikon Aus has yet to update their website, but the cameras have now been announced.

Z6(24Mp) and Z7(45Mp), and 3 lenses to begin with.

Some interesting thoughts coming from folks that were at the press release.
One comment I found interesting (for my personal preference) is that the EVF appears to be the same ol same ol.
The comment was that you can see some flicker in the EVF under fluoro lights .. which is basically why I find them annoying, making me feel queezy in some situations.

So I dare say it's probably not going to be for me.
I'll have to definitely check one out tho, to be sure.

[Bear Dale]

Not much chop if you need to take a seasick pill an hour before using one.