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Thread: Can't open images in photo shop

  1. #1
    Go the Rabbitohs mudman's Avatar
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    Can't open images in photo shop

    took my first images with my new K1 this morning
    loaded them into photoshop ok
    went to open an image and got a message saying ps can't open image and to make sure i have the latest camera raw update installed
    went to the help menu and opened the update window. says i have the latest update installed
    says to go to https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/k...d-cameras.html if error persists
    can't find any fix in there as yet
    can anyone help please?
    cc and enjoy

    Photography is painting with light

    K1, Pentax 18-250mm zoom, Pentax 100mm macro, Sigma 50-500mm, Pentax 28-105mm
    Velbon Sherpa tripod Photoshop CS6

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    Member coolhand78's Avatar
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    sorry if this is ignorant but you don't need to run them through the DNG converter?
    https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/us...converter.html
    Luke.

    5DMkII | Canon EF 24-70mm ƒ/2.8L II USM | Canon EF 50mm ƒ/1.4 USM| Canon TS-E 17mm ƒ/4L Tilt Shift
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    the camera gives the option of file formats of DNG or PEF (the pentax format)
    i selected the PEF format it's the same as my k7.
    so i don't think i have to any conversion
    cheers

  4. #4
    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    Muddie. Your link above shows (amongst other things) that for your K1 version of the PEF format you NEED...

    Minimum Camera Raw plug-in version required: 9.5.1
    Minimum Lightroom version required: 6.5.1

    Have (either of) these, will travel.

    PS: Must emphasise: only the PEF name is the same, but they have obviously changed some of the format.

    - - - Updated - - -

    PS2: And BTW, how can you "[load] them into photoshop ok" if you can't open them?
    Last edited by ameerat42; 04-10-2017 at 4:15pm.
    CC, Image editing OK.

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    am, i went and checked for updates. reply was that i was up to date
    the RAW version i have is 9.1.1.461, which is obviously old.
    how can i find a 9.5.1 version to down load?
    found this when i went looking for raw 9.5, which is now down loading
    would i be better to use DNG instead of PEF, or would that create other issues?

    Rikk Flohr says:
    June 30, 2016 at 11:54 am
    Camera Raw 9.1.1 is the final version available for CS6. If you have a camera released after 9.1.1 you would need to use the free DNG Converter tool to create a DNG file from your raw file so that older versions of software can access it.
    Last edited by mudman; 04-10-2017 at 6:15pm.

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    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    Gosh! If that's true then it's pathetic.

    Muddie. I suggest you ditch ACR for that camera and use whatever raw converter
    Pentax supplies. I do not know what Pentax supplies for this. Somebody will.

    - - - Updated - - -

    PS: DNG is not the same as a raw file. It already has been converted to that format.
    I do not know all the implications of that, but I would suspect some sort of loss.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I found (only another one reference) but it bodes badly for K1 files.
    https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2157199

    So Muddie. Did you not get a disc/online reference to a file converter OTHER THAN
    what we've already mentioned?
    Last edited by ameerat42; 04-10-2017 at 7:20pm.

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    Administrator ricktas's Avatar
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    This is NOT adobe's fault. Camera manufacturers have created these proprietary RAW formats going way back to early 2000's. They release the camera with a new raw format and then adobe and others have to update their software so it can read this 'new' file format.

    It has been happening for about the past 20 years at least. Each camera company creates its own proprietary file format, then they modify it as newer camera models get released. It is frustrating, but nothing new that you have come across this issue. The NEF format for the K7 is likely a different NEF format to that created by the K1. This is not unusual for camera companies to do this.

    But blaming Adobe is misdirected. We should be blaming the camera companies for creating these proprietary RAW formats in the first place. It is also why Adobe created the DNG converter as they know that in another 20 years, camera companies would stop supporting their old formats and we would be left with RAW files that no one could open, or people would be searching out old software that could open it.
    Last edited by ricktas; 04-10-2017 at 7:43pm.
    "It is one thing to make a picture of what a person looks like, it is another thing to make a portrait of who they are" - Paul Caponigro

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    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    I'm not blaming Adobe, but rather Pentax, if they have not supplied a proprietary raw converter.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Any "blame" that appertains to Adobe would be if you HAD to update to the latest version of CC
    for the latest ACR to work. But that is BTW.

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    Administrator ricktas's Avatar
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    Current proprietary raw formats by brand:



    .3fr (Hasselblad)
    .ari (Arri_Alexa)
    .arw .srf .sr2 (Sony)
    .bay (Casio)
    .cri (Cintel)
    .crw .cr2 (Canon)
    .cap .iiq .eip (Phase_One)
    .dcs .dcr .drf .k25 .kdc (Kodak)
    .dng (Adobe)
    .erf (Epson)
    .fff (Imacon/Hasselblad raw)
    .mef (Mamiya)
    .mdc (Minolta, Agfa)
    .mos (Leaf)
    .mrw (Minolta, Konica Minolta)
    .nef .nrw (Nikon)
    .orf (Olympus)
    .pef .ptx (Pentax)
    .pxn (Logitech)
    .R3D (RED Digital Cinema)
    .raf (Fuji)
    .raw .rw2 (Panasonic)
    .raw .rwl .dng (Leica)
    .rwz (Rawzor)
    .srw (Samsung)
    .x3f (Sigma)

    Now adobe and others have to alter their software to accommodate each and every one of these, but to make things worse each format has different versions, and each version, being different, also needs to be accomodated in conversion software.

    Over the years the same file format can change. Take Nikon's NEF file, it was originally 8 bit, but has over time, expanded to be 12 bit and even 14 bit. And each time Nikon changed it, third party software developers had to release updates to accomodate the now changed NEF format. Same extension, different file.

    With all the above formats and then within each name, several different actual architecture for the file. So a NEF from two different Nikon cameras, both called DC1210.NEF could actually be one of several different actual file formats. And unless your software can read it, work out what version it is, and then open it, you are at the mercy of a software update, as they try and catch up to the new file architecture that the camera company has created.

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    Administrator ricktas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudman View Post

    Rikk Flohr says:
    June 30, 2016 at 11:54 am
    Camera Raw 9.1.1 is the final version available for CS6. If you have a camera released after 9.1.1 you would need to use the free DNG Converter tool to create a DNG file from your raw file so that older versions of software can access it.
    And therein is the issue. Adobe (like most companies) stop supporting and upgrading older versions of their software. Like having a classic car and looking for genuine parts, often the manufacturer has stopped making them, so people source them from wrecking yards or find a skilled enthusiast who replicates parts. But the original manufacturer stops making spares.

    Adobe (and others) do the same with older versions of software, and thus people look for alternatives. DNG convertor, different software etc to convert their files into something that can be opened and then imported into photoshop.

    if you look at Apple and Android phones. They stop supporting older phones after 2-3 years and you no longer get the new version of the iOS or Android after a couple of years. They just leave you with what you have, and that is it.

    Adobe has just done the same, it has stopped updating CS6 to allow it to open newer camera files.

  11. #11
    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    Muddie. After a bit more digging about I was told the following info, which I quoted verbatim:
    "Sure, the Digital Camera Utility (provided with the camera). You can use it to convert the existing PEF files to DNG.

    Pretty much every half-decent - and recent - RAW converter should be capable of processing K-1's RAWs (either PEF or DNG),
    and there are even free ones like Rawtherapee."


    Here is a link to the DCU, if you don't have one:
    http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/engli...lity5_win.html

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    after a night's sleep i had another attempt with the silkypix software provided
    how to use info is as useful as boobs on a bull, but i finally got a result
    still need to refine the process to make it more user friendly
    thank you all for your help and effort
    cheers

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    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
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    If you want to stick with using PS CS6, then I reckon it'd be better to shoot in DNG format, instead of PEF.
    If you have any plans to update CS6 to a more modern version(ie. the paid subscription version, then PEF will be fine due to the ability to update ACR to the necessary later version.

    If you want a newer version of ACR and don't want to be encumbered with monthly or yearly payments for it, the latest Lightroom can be purchased, which will have the latest ACR and hence PEF ability too.
    Do your ACR tweaks in this newest Lr version and then for any other tweaks you need Ps for(even CS6) .. you then export from Lr(new) to Ps(old) .. and you're fine.

    A major note when doing raw file conversions to DNG format using Adobe's software. The software doesn't maintain every last bit of exif info in the DNG, so you will lose some (possibly non vital) exif data.

    Like Rick says .. this is all due to the inherent stubbornness and ineptitude of the camera manufacturers!(ie. not Adobe's fault here).

    The silly side note part of all this: is that the manufacturers all supply to the public a free codec to help decode the raw files, and this codec is then used by all software capable of reading it's properties. So why can't they just offer a way to fully decode the raw file and edit it from there .. and use it to then rewrite back to the original raw file format?(answer = incompetence on the manufacturers part!).
    The manufacturers seem to protecting something here with this madness, and other than protecting their own software by offering some kind of advantage over thirdparty software, there is no reason to protect their raw files in this manner. Problem is, their software are total crap compared to the ability of most thirdparty software(in terms of features).

    At least some manufacturers offer the DNG option(Pentax, Panasonic, etc) but the two main players Nikon and Canon don't! .. but they still offer the totally useless TIFF format as an option! .. just makes no sense whatsoever!

    But for this situation(muddie) I'd switch to DNG in camera.
    Nikon D800E, D300, D70s
    {Nikon} -> 50/1.2 : 500/8(CPU'd) : 105/2.8VR Micro : 180/2.8ais : 105mm f/1.8ais : 24mm/2ais
    {Sigma}; ->10-20/4-5.6 : 50/1.4 : 12-24/4.5-5.6II : 150-600mm|S
    {Tamron}; -> 17-50/2.8 : 28-75/2.8 : 70-200/2.8 : 300/2.8 SP MF : 24-70/2.8VC

    {Yongnuo}; -> YN35/2N : YN50/1.8N


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    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    I dunno... To me it's clear from your attempts and AK's caution re DNGs:
    Work on the raw file with either the DCU software or Rawtherapee.
    - I too have an aversion to paying for "updates"

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    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudman View Post
    after a night's sleep i had another attempt with the silkypix software provided
    ....
    What version of Silkypix do they provide with the camera?

    Out of curiosity I'm looking into what software Pentax offers for their cameras.(I'm just a curious bugga!)
    That I can see on the Ricoh website, Silkypix Developer 3 doesn't support any Petnax raw file other than Q, Q-10, K-01 and K-30 .. so I have a feeling that Silkypix developer doesn't open K1 raw(or PEF) files.
    The DCU software seems to be Silkypix specifically made for Pentax. (Nikon uses their software base too for their CaptureNX-D software).

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    Arthur, the silkypix version that came with the camera is 5.
    i'm sticking with CS6 for now because i don't like the idea of having my better imaged floating around the ether for people to hack
    plus i don't want to pay a fee for something i already basically have
    if anyone thinks cc cloud or anything else on the net is safe their crazy
    so for now it's load the images, convert to jpegs, then process.
    if anyone has thoughts of decent software i could use, let me know. i would rather not haveto go through the conversion process

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    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    Well, it seems like it's about the 48th time I've mentioned Rawtherapee...
    -That's what I was told by some Pentaxites.

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    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudman View Post
    ....
    if anyone has thoughts of decent software i could use, let me know. i would rather not haveto go through the conversion process
    Totally understandable..... except!
    When you use Photoshop you 'HAVE' to go through the process of conversion from raw file type(any raw file type) to .. most likely .. PSD(I think that's the default Ps file type preference)

    The only difference with using the Pentax supplied software is that you have to manually open using this software(and Silkypix is terrible no matter the flavour used) edit a bit here and there .. and then open/edit with(in your case Ps).

    If you try to open a raw file(eg. PEF in this instance) .. Ps then calls on ACR or even Bridge to open the raw file, you then edit using ACR/Bridge and then once finished in those programs Ps then allows you to work on your file.
    Just remember that when editing in Ps you don't work on the raw file in any way. You're working on an Adobe created derivative.

    Just having a quick play in Pentax's DCU v5, and it's nearly as slow as Nikon's CaptureNX-D(remembering that CNX-D is also based on Silkypix too).
    Nikon's skin implementation of SillyPix tho makes a bit more sense, at least in that if you hover your mouse on any editing tool a balloon dialogue pops up telling you what the arcane icon is for.

    In DCU I think I worked out that the S icon in the circle is for sharpening .. but no idea what that same S icon with the F addition supposedly does.
    Basically if you don't regularly use it it gives you a sense of as to what each tool does.
    One major flaw in DCU is the implementation of the histogram! you can't overlay all three channels over each other to get any idea of colour balance!

    As a minimum consolation tho, and as I'd expect .. at least Pentax have very good image rendering with their Picture Styles.

    I'm kind'a thinking tho that Am's recommendation to use RawTherapee may not be the solution that mudman is looking for tho.
    That is, RT can't do what Ps can in terms of cloning/healing type intricate editing in the same way. RT is more like an alternative to Pentax's DCU(or version of SillyPix) and as such is just the same step processing as would be using Pentax's software and then exporting to Ps.

    The only real alternative would be to get a copy of the latest Lr in standalone version (ie. not the CC type) and use it to effect most edits, and then when needed you can then export to Ps for any edits that Lr can't do.
    What I don't know (due to lack of trying) is if the latest Lr will export to CS6. I stopped using Lr at v4.

    I don't know if there are any hacks available where you could extract a later version of ACR(ie compatible with the K1) and substitute it for the version you're limited too.
    That is: if you got the latest version of Lr which would come with a K1 compatible ACR version, if you could somehow manage to point Ps to open the K1 file with this later version of ACR, or replace the (old)one it does link too with the newer one somewhere in the Lr directory.

    As for an alternative software to Ps(ie. eliminate Ps completely on the whole) could be the likes of DxO's Optics Pro or Phase One's CaptureOne
    Trail versions are available for 30 odd days each.

    I've trialled both. Not a fan of Optics Pro, and I like Capture One better than Lr in an overall sense. Some things were better in Lr, but I preferred C1's non enforcement of cataloging .. a major level of silliness in Lr.

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