Replacement Body - where to go....

[rellik666]

So after finding the ISO capabilities of my trusty antique D300s wanting, I'm looking at where to invest my next lump of cash..... I have both FX and some DX lenses so I'm not fussed either way. I want a good all rounder but I probably don't want anything heavier that I have now.

What should I be looking at? Should I be waiting for something not out yet?

My budget would be around $2k ish....

[Tannin]

I could use a replacement body myself. This one is getting a bit past it, and my knees give me gyp.

Er ... sorry.

More seriously, I reckon the FX/DX decision is the important one. Coming from an antique, you will find that any camera Nikon sells today is an upgrade in nearly all respects. (No offence to the wonderful old D300s, I'd say the same about my antique 20D from the same era.)

Whether you get a D850 or a D610 is much less important than whether you get FX or DX because it will have much less effect on your photography. The same applies to D500 vs D5600.

ISO ability: FX.
Cost: DX.
Reach: DX.
Resolution: FX.

Going FX will require a major revamp of your lenses. At a guess (I'm a Canon user so not familiar with the Nikkor range) you'd have to replace the 35/1.8, 18-200, and 12-24 (or keep using them only on the D300s) and you would also find that FX lenses are suddenly completely different beasts. Your 50/1.4 will act like a 35/1; 70-200/2.8 like a 50/140/2; 105/2.8 like a 60/2; and the 150/500 like a 100-370/4.5. Those are major changes. Take your time and think them through.

(Feeling a bit lost and doubtful? Don't worry, Arthur will be along to confuse you shortly.)

[rellik666]

You make a good point. Mainly with regards to reach.

I really want to get more into photographing Birds, so the loss of reach will be an issue.

I don't "think" I need FX to be honest and the cost is obviously a factor.

So DX.....where do I go from here...

[arthurking83]

D500 if you want a bit of speed, and #1 AF ability .. D7500 saves you a bit of $s(but I think not enough by a long shot!!)

(IMO I think the D7500 is wayyy overpriced .. $1500 max! .. more like just below that to make it a sensible price range).

D7200's are pretty good. 24Mp at the Dx frame size gives you good resolution. Noise rendering will be on par with the best current APS-C sensors.

I'd say the 35/1.8 is 'workable' on an Fx camera. It vignettes, but not a whole lot(like other Dx lenses do). You could probably crop some images to (say) about 40mm frame FOV and get away with it.
18-200 as already said won't work well, but it'll fit and again you just need to crop a lot. No idea how well a Tokina 12-24/4 works on an Fx sensor.

Like Tony said, you're basic options would be 24Mp APS-C or 24Mp Fx .. so obviously 24Mp on APS-C gives you the extra 'reach' whilst maintaining the same pixel count.
But, I reckon the D750/D600 sensor is good for about 1 stop of extra ISO stop .. once you get past about ISO3200.

If all you did was birds(or wildlife) type shots .. I'd say for sure go with the D500(and find the extra $s needed) simply for the focus system.
But (if it's safe to assume), you probably shoot other stuff every now and then .. maybe some night stuff on a walk through the city, maybe some .. I dunno .. other stuff that may need more shutter speed, or wider aperture .. and you just can't get them .. so ISO is your next best friend

D750 seems like a decent allrounder. You have the Nikon 1.7x TC to make up for the lost 'reach'. If you're not rushed, I'd say wait up a bit, as for sure Nikon is about to update it and/or the D610.
That means something more capable could be coming. Or D750's will drop in price quickly(ie. save yourself many $s).

summary:
1. If I had to help recommend one way or another .. I'd say D500(Dx) for it's focus system .. and D750(Fx) for it's lack of noise at high ISO both would be equally footed in terms of $2k-ish for a body. One being a bit better in one aspect, the other being a bit better at other things.

**Note that I'm assuming about $2200 for the D500 with it's $200 cashback offer (ie. $2400-$200 cashback) I've seen recently too .. this may change by the time you actually buy.
***At $2000($1900 with a $100 cashback offer) .. I just think that it's overpriced, and needs to be below the psychological $1500 barrier.

2/. If it were my money, I'd prefer the more flexible and multipurpose-y D750. Mounted with fast lenses, the way Fx can render images is occasionally just that little bit nicer.
My logic in the D750(if it were my money) .. you already have the D300s(itself still quite capable), and in good light it stil works well(I'm assuming).
Your opening line mentions a lack of ability now at higher ISOs.
It's ability at high ISO hasn't changed, but progress has shown better is now available.
If that's the main point of the expense, then at high ISOs the D750(at that price range) is about as good as you'll get for higher ISO ability.

D500 and D7500 are also very good at high ISO, no doubt about that, and they both shoot amazingly quick, with the bonus that the D500 uses about as good an AF system as you can get today .. but from the sample images I've seen, the D750 is still 1 stop better at high ISO above about ISO3200.
ie. at ISO3200 on the D500/D7500, they both have the merest hint of chroma noise(the ugly coloured stuff), the D750 has (for all intents and purposes) none. At ISO6400 the D750 has a similar amount of that very low amount of noise as the D500/D7500.

Down the road, you'd sell the Tokina 12-24/4 .. and get a Sigma 12-24 ... a whole new meaning to the term ultra wide angle ... just watch your feet, both bodily and tripod types!

[Tannin]

Arthur is losing his touch. That was full of useful information (as one expects from AK) but not confusing at all.

[rellik666]

Thank you! Yeah ignore the 18-200 I have as I dropped it and it's pretty much a paperweight now!

The main lenses I use are my 70-200, my 35, and my nice new 85 1.8.

An ultra wide is on my list but you know $$$$.

I didn't have a problem with my D300s until last week and it struggled big time with people moving in the dark! I just couldn't get the speed I needed without horrendous noise. So you are right in that respect, I don't plan on getting rid of the 300 as I love it as body.

I did lust after a D700 when it came out so maybe the 750 is a logical addition!

[arthurking83]

.... maybe the 750 is a logical addition!

Yeah, going by that description for sure (I would) get the D750.

You would set up with AutoISO up to 12800 max, which should give you plenty of shutter speed at f/1.8.
A handy feature with Auto ISO in newer Nikon bodies is that they have a 1/focal length type shutter speed rule(with a bit of adjustment in that as well).
So you're not set with an absolute minimum shutter speed .. eg. 1/60s which could be wasteful on a 35mm lens, and not enough with an 85mm lens. The focal length rule would then give you a min 1/30s SS on the 35mm and if you switch lens to the 85mm, will give you something like 1/80s min. This way, it's more set and forget(you turn it off/on and forget it) and you're not stuck at the 'wrong setting'.
The adjustment ability means you can add or subtract a bit of SS, so it'd make the SS 1/60s with the 35mm, and 1/100s for the 85mm. less possibility for too much blur from movement in people, as opposed to camera shake. Works brilliantly on zoom lenses too(if you zoom a lot).

At a guess, I reckon the D750 at ISO12800 is what the D300 can do at ISO3200

[Cage]

Oh, and I'm going through this too and think the D750 is a no-brainer.

If you don't mind a Nikon refurb there is one on this site http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Nikon-D75...MAAOSwNYRZpN4k for $1,679.88. NoFrills is Ryda.com's eBay site and they are authorised Nikon dealers.

[rellik666]

Did you just buy it? It says out of stock!

[Tannin]

$1379 new at DWI. That's a de-kit. Shipping is free but shipping insurance would be about $50. There is a credit card or Paypal fee, but no fee if you direct deposit. Be aware that warranty service (if required) is performed by DWI (not Nikon Australia). I don't know if they do it themselves or (more likely) ship it back to Hong Kong and give it to the Nikon authorised repairer there.

[Cage]

Nope, but the stuff on that site is going like hot cakes with the 20% discount.

The discount finishes tomorrow so keep an eye on the site as they have been topping the stock up.

[arthurking83]

..... Be aware that warranty service (if required) is performed by DWI (not Nikon Australia). I don't know if they do it themselves or (more likely) ship it back to Hong Kong and give it to the Nikon authorised repairer there.

Experience tells me that this may be a benefit, rather than something to be weary of! (ie. Nikon Aus service probably grades just a little over -100 on items they're not obliged to fix by law, but should due to faulty workmanship).

The only issue with the D750 not being authorised Nikon Aus channel product is that the D750 is subject to recalls for shutter service(s).

[Tannin]

Surely Nikon isn't still shipping product with faulty shutters though?

Where there is a product recall for pretty much anything, the first thing the manufacturer does is stop shipping product, not just because they could be sued for knowingly shipping faulty goods, and not just because of the reputational damage, but more importantly because processing a recall is expensive. The shipping and handling alone (never mind the actual repair) might cost $30 or $50 per item. In theory, a retailer should send affected stock back to the manufacturer or wholesaler to be swapped over. But of course, an unscrupulous or simply sloppy operator might not.

How long is it since the recall was issued? More than a short while and you'd reckon the old stock would have been flushed out of the system already.

[Cage]

$1379 new at DWI. That's a de-kit. Shipping is free but shipping insurance would be about $50. There is a credit card or Paypal fee, but no fee if you direct deposit. Be aware that warranty service (if required) is performed by DWI (not Nikon Australia). I don't know if they do it themselves or (more likely) ship it back to Hong Kong and give it to the Nikon authorised repairer there.

I think that you either looked at the D7500 Tony, or had a little error of transposition.

The D7500 is $1,379.00 (Kit Box) but the D750 is $1,739.00.

[Tannin]

Gahh. That's what happens with unfamiliar model names. It was a D75somethingorotherwhateverstrangenumbersNikonuse to me.

- - - Updated - - -

I did notice, by the way, that the package with the 24-170 VR bundled was more than $1000 extra. "Gosh", I thought, those Nikon kit lenses are expensive!

[arthurking83]

Surely Nikon isn't still shipping product with faulty shutters though?

....

Inventory!

I'd say quite confidently NOT .. but if a company like DWI buy in bulk to achieve savings, then the product could be manufactured in the period when they may be included in the recall.

I'm not privvy to retail/wholesale supply chains to know if Nikon would have contacted the reseller to exchange any old affected inventory being held.
You'd assume that this would be the case .. but with Nikon, don't assume anything

Nikon have this annoying "I am" logo .. been going for a few years now, and if they had a suggestion box, I'd be suggesting they use something like "I am ... not expecting much any more"

[Cage]

Gahh. That's what happens with unfamiliar model names. It was a D75somethingorotherwhateverstrangenumbersNikonuse to me.

- - - Updated - - -

I did notice, by the way, that the package with the 24-170 VR bundled was more than $1000 extra. "Gosh", I thought, those Nikon kit lenses are expensive!

It's OK mate, staticICE lumps them in together too.

[rellik666]

Just resurrecting this.... I have come across a second hand D800 for $1500 thoughts please?

[arthurking83]

Just resurrecting this.... I have come across a second hand D800 for $1500 thoughts please?

Have you seen any D810's second hand.
I don't really look around regularly, but have noted a few on Ebay.

D810 does appear to have a slight advantage in terms of ISO/quality ratio, as well as some updated features that could be useful(like the electronic front curtain option).
And I've watched two D810's on ebay gone for between 1800-2K.
You can still get them new on Ebay for about $2.8K(if that's an option).

If the D750 is still another option for 'ya, I'd keep an eye on it's pricing over the next few months.
Nikon traditionally introduce a new model camera about early in the year, and D750/D610 are massively overdue for their model replacements.
Nikon could amalgamate those two models(considering current market conditions), so it could come to be a relatively cheap Fx camera, with quite decent specs.

The rumour mill is expecting a couple of new models by about Feb or so .. so just for now .. could be worth hanging out just a bit more I reckon.

What's the budget figures you've allowed yourself for this purchase?
A 'hopeful' price point .... and an 'absolute maximum, budget busting, can't move a cent above that' price point too.

[rellik666]

Have you seen any D810's second hand.
I don't really look around regularly, but have noted a few on Ebay.

D810 does appear to have a slight advantage in terms of ISO/quality ratio, as well as some updated features that could be useful(like the electronic front curtain option).
And I've watched two D810's on ebay gone for between 1800-2K.
You can still get them new on Ebay for about $2.8K(if that's an option).

If the D750 is still another option for 'ya, I'd keep an eye on it's pricing over the next few months.
Nikon traditionally introduce a new model camera about early in the year, and D750/D610 are massively overdue for their model replacements.
Nikon could amalgamate those two models(considering current market conditions), so it could come to be a relatively cheap Fx camera, with quite decent specs.

The rumour mill is expecting a couple of new models by about Feb or so .. so just for now .. could be worth hanging out just a bit more I reckon.

What's the budget figures you've allowed yourself for this purchase?
A 'hopeful' price point .... and an 'absolute maximum, budget busting, can't move a cent above that' price point too.

Thanks Arthur. I went to have a look at the D800 and it felt great, she also had a D3x which could have tempted me but it would require a new shutter soon and my understanding is that Nikon don't have the parts anymore. You may be able to shed some light on that.

The D750 is about $1900 at the moment so you think it'll come down more?

Right now my budget is $0 as I've had to upgrade my computer. It was long overdue. But I think $2000 is going to be my max out price.