An NBN Question...

[ameerat42]

(I know: Where is it?)

No, but today I got a letter saying that they will soon be installing equipment at the premises
so that we can get the NBN. So, since it's inevitable, and since I will be departing from the excellent
Optus cable service, the following Qs came to mind,...

Does anybody in Sydney have an Optus NBN connection? Can you tell me what sort it is - FTTN or FTTP?
Which plan it is? (I still do not know what NBN Co intend for here)

Now, if you do not want to publicise your details, that's OK, I would be glad for a PM, and your info will
remain undisclosed.

If you want to talk about other providers then OK, but I'm more interested in Optus.

Ta.
Am.

[Hamster]

So do you have to depart from the cable service? The reason I ask is I currently have Telstra cable running at around 70 Mbps, and around my way NBN seems to only be delivering 20 Mbps. So whilst I'd welcome the ability to pick and choose my supplier, and the cost savings that brings, I don't want to have to drop to nearly a quarter of the speed when NBN reaches my suburb.

Sorry to reply with a totally different question..

OK, so Google is my friend and I found the below. Excuse the font, simple text and font changes don't seem to be fixing it.

Well that's crap if NBN speeds really are going to be worse. So much for progress.

Moving to the nbn™ network is not automatic and the following services will be permanently disconnected if you do not arrange to move them to the nbn™ network before the advised date.

• Telstra Home/landline phone services (except some Telstra Velocity lines)
• Home/Landlines phone services from all other phone companies, where the service is provided over Telstra's copper phone lines
• All ADSL, ADSL2 and ADSL2+ internet services from all providers
• Telstra BigPond cable internet services
• Optus cable internet and cable phone services (switch off date yet to be determined)

The switch off only affects the above services. If your phone or internet is already provided over another fibre network, such as a network provided by your building owner, private enterprise network, health or education network, or a cable network that's not owned by Telstra or Optus (such as TransACT – excluding ACT customers being migrated to the nbn™ network, OptiComm, Pivit or others), they should continue operating unless your provider advises otherwise.


More googling - apparently they use hybrid fibre/coaxial where cable exists, so maybe the speed won't drop afterall. Hooray.
@ameerat42, feel free to delete my thread hijack, I won't be offended.

[Tannin]

G'day Am,
There is no such thing as an "Optus NBN connection". There is only the NBN. NBN Co (who now call themselves "nbn" just to demonstrate that that it is not only their technical quality but also their grammar which has declined of late) do all the cabling, all the installation of boxes on walls, and all the on-ground service work. It makes no difference whether you are with Optus or Telstra or anyone else, it's NBN Co that does the work.

Your ISP (Optus if you wish, or any of dozens - most of them just different pretend names for one of the four or five majors) does not provide any hardware unless they choose to give you a new router. (They may refer to it as a modem, but it's normally a router which plugs into the Ethernet port on the NBN-supplied box on your wall.)

You can have any plan you want. Doesn't have to be Optus unless you want it to be.

All NBN connections in any particular local area are of the same type. In general, only those places lucky enough to be scheduled for early rollouts get the real thing. (If you haven't already, you are probably not going to get it.) Most current new installations are FTTN, which is 20% cheaper than FTTP and has an expected useful working life of about 10 years. (The useful working life of FTTP is unknown, but assume 100 years to start with and see what happens after that.)

Technically, FTTN is very similar to the HFC cable you have already got. Like HFC cable, it uses a fibre-optic connection to a local hub, then copper wires to each individual house. HFC cable provides a better quality of copper (co-ax is significantly superior to twisted pair); on the other hand, copper cable degrades over the years and a new NBN FTTN link would indeed be new. Most likely, however, they will use your existing phone wires.

Net result: unless you get lucky and have real fibre, there is no particular technical advantage to having FTTN NBN instead of cable. Note that NBN Co had planned to buy the Optus cable network and use that instead of FTTN/FTTP in suburbs where it was already installed. However the Optus cable network was in worse condition than expected (no doubt due to cheapskate maintenance in the past) and the current policy is to decommission it.

What speed difference can you expect? If your copper wire is in good condition, none to speak of. FTTN and HFC cable are about equal, and even a half-decent ADSL line can rival them. But even with a proper all-fibre link, your actual speed is largely determined by the throttling policies of your ISP. Cheapskate ISPs buy very little upstream bandwidth and your connection is slow, unreliable, and generally horrible. (No names here, but you might consider the initials "Dodo" and work up from there. Which way is up from Dodo? Well, which way is north from the South Pole?)

In a completely different category are the likes of TPG and Iinet. Still slow and annoying at peak times, but nevertheless a different world. Rough rule-of-thumb: anyone who offers you "unlimited" downloads reckons that their system is so slow that most people won't bother using enough to cost them serious money.

Then you get the quality providers, which fall into two categories. (a) Telstra and Optus, who are very expensive and frequently annoying to deal with, but deliver a good quality service. (b) High-quality smaller, specialist providers. The only one I know of personally is Skymesh who are very good and (extraordinary behaviour for a Telco!) remarkably honest in their promises. When you call them, you talk to someone in Brisbane who grew up speaking English and actually knows stuff about the network. (Compare with almost all others, where you get call-centre casuals, frequently in India or the Philippines, reading stuff off an on-screen script.) Very straightforward. I recommend them. Another one which, sadly, no longer exists is Internode. The excellent Internode sold out to the mediocre Iinet a few years back and promptly started deteriorating to the point where, after a few years, there was no longer any noticeable difference between Internode and the rest of Iinet. Worse was in store: then bottom-dweller TPG bought Iinet. I have crossd them off my Christmas list.

Disclosure: I hold shares in two telcos, Telstra and Amasym.

[Hamster]

few words

So it sounds like, I can expect similar speeds and maybe a slight drop in price through competition, but basically not much will change if I stick with Telstra or Optus. Amaysim seem to have pretty good prices ($90 unlimited data up to 100 MBPS). You like them too then?

[ameerat42]

Ta for the info, guys. No wonder Optus were being coy some while back and asking if I would want to stay with them after the NBN.
But they said I didn't have to. I didn't quite understand till now, when I see that I don't have to stay with their [proprietary hardware].
- There won't be any.

Well, my present plan with them is $90 for Unltd, 30/1.5 Mbps, all phone calls except to 1900xx, and un-ltd international calls to 25 countries.
If they had the same with - as I understand - 25 Mbps down, I would consider it, but I do not know if...

Certainly, the 12/1 speed that is offered around the place for basic NBN and pricing is an utter insult. I had a go at a local DoDo kiosk runner
recently when I picked up the small print and just blatantly told him that was not NBN and that it was nothing. The next level up was $70 odd.
But Exetel, IInet, etc are the same AFAIK.

[Cage]

I've had the NBN (FTTP) for twelve months and finally felt like I was actually living in the 21st century. I won't go into the crap I had for fifteen years prior to that.

As Tony succinctly explained the NBN is the NBN, full stop, and Optus, Telstra et al are just bill collectors.

I went with Telstra, whom I've been with in their various nomenclatures since 1968, but I'm pretty sure that didn't get me any brownie points.

Tony's comments on the bandwidth purchased by the bottom feeders is very pertinent. Just google to see the complaints from those whose download speeds are never even getting close to those promised.

How does this help you? Optus or Telstra, Telstra or Optus, six of one, or half a dozen of the other. It doesn't matter until you get down to the best deal for you, based on your usage.
When I was negotiating with Telstra I kept mentioning how good Optus deals were (there was Jack Sh!t between them) and while I didn't get any big price reduction I did get the Speed Boost thrown in for gratis. That's the one offering 100mbps down and 40mbps up.

I've never seen it below 94mbps download, until I checked it just now and got 71mbps, surprised but not unexpected, as I'm on the end of the cable run about 9klms from the exchange and every school kid between me and the exchange is now online.

The bottom line of my waffle is to haggle with your chosen ISP, and haggle hard ! Be prepared to walk away, and remember the saying that 'He/She who speaks last, wins'.

[ameerat42]

Ta, Kev. It is the phone offer I'm particularly looking for.

[Tannin]

Hamster, I know absolutely nothing about Amaysim other than that they buy wholesale mobile capacity from whoever they want (currently Optus), have a reasonable price/earnings ratio for a company with their excellent growth rate, no debt, and that they closed at $1.68 today. But by all means sign up with them, and pay as much as possible. I have a chronic photography habit to fund and every dollar helps.

Am, I reckon I'd take it slowly, considering offers and waiting for a good one. They won't switch your cable off for quite a while yet. $90 for your current setup is pretty reasonable considering it is from a decent company. (The bottom tier would promise you all that for about $20 less and deliver half of it.) Hunt around, and pay particular attention to deals with no fixed term. The one thing you can cast-iron guarantee with a two-year deal is that you'll be paying well over the going rate by the time the second year rolls around - they get to sell you next's year's Internet at this year's prices, which is a very good deal .... for them.

Hamster, I understood that NBN Co were planning to retain at least part of the Telstra cable system and use it to deliver NBN services (rather than installing all-new cabling). But perhaps I got that wrong, or they have changed the plan. Here in Ballarat, the former Neighbourhood Cable system, which was bought out by Transact, which was bought out by Iinet, which was bought out by TPG remains active and will continue in competition with the NBN for the foreseeable future, I believe. Why we'd use it (and in doing so tie ourselves to a single vendor) when we can have any vendor we like on NBN fibre, I don't know. I'm actually using Telstra here (can't remember what speed tier: whatever it is is plenty) and pay about the same as Am for (can't remember) GB (more than I need anyway, might be 500 with three free double-your-allowance months, not that I've ever needed to) and a phone with free calls to Australian landlines only. Telstra are expensive but they were the only company who could transfer my old shop phone number, so I groaned and paid it. That said, they do a very good job. If it hadn't been for the phone number thing, I'd have gone with Skymesh. Skymest provided my NBN at the shop before I sold it, and they were the easiest telco I've ever had to deal with. No contracts, no "up to" BS, no complicated fine-print pricing. Sadly, I don't have shares in them, so please sign up with Amaysim or Telstra.

[Cage]

Ta, Kev. It is the phone offer I'm particularly looking for.

Yep, Optus beats Telstra hands-down with phone freebies.

[Hamster]

Yes, Tony, from what I read NBN would just use the existing cable from the node to the house, not lay new. So since I know this system will already deliver me 70 Mbps I'm happy and expecting no worse when the data are delivered to the node via fibre.
I'll bear your photography habit in mind when choosing. TBH, Telstra haven't lived up to their terrible reputation in the dealings I've had with them, so I may stick with them. Looking at plans it looks like I can expect things to be very similar to what I pay/get now, but with increased data, which would be perfect. Maybe if I switch a couple of mobiles too I can get an even better deal...

[Plays With Light]

Tony, I'm surprised that you put TPG in the lower categories, we are with them and are the furthest from the node in our suburb (about 650 metres away), getting constant (even in peak use times) 70/Mbps download speeds and about 40/Mbps up, with roughly 3-5ms pings.

[Hawthy]

Assuming that you will most likely package your ISP, home phone and mobile...before jumping to Optus, just check if their mobile coverage suits you. I had an Optus mobile for work a few years ago and the coverage was not as wide as Telstra. If you don't travel much it probably won't make much difference but when you are on the road it does.

[Tannin]

Cheers PWL. Your location on the system and performance relative to other houses in the area has nothing to do with TPG (or any other telco). That part of the network is entirely owned by and operated by NBN Co. (In the old days of copper phone lines, the same applied except that it was Telstra.)

Where TPG usually fall down is in their provision of data into the system (not out of it, and the "out" is not under their control). Have they suddenly started buying enough bandwidth to service their customers properly? Sounds pretty unlikely given their track record, but you never know. The big test is peak time usage, especially during the Netfix Hour, which lasts half the night.

Hamster, Telstra used to be really and truly horrible. I had to take them to the Telecommunications Industry Ombudsman. Twice! (And in both cases they were ordered by the authority to apologise and refund in full. I got the money but I'm still waiting for the apologies.) They reached their all-time low under Sol. Everybody in the whole country hated them, and rightly so. Then two things happened: (1) the NBN was announced, decisively breaking Telstra's fixed line monopoly and forcing them to compete for customers, and (2) new head David Thoday came up with a truly radical idea. Thoday decided that, seeing as Telstra was now going to be just another retailer competing for customers, that it would be a good idea if people actually liked dealing with them. After the initial gasps of shock and disbelief died down, he set about transforming the company by training and rewarding staff as if customer satisfaction actually mattered. And, broadly speaking, it worked. Dealing with Telstra can still be difficult, but now they really do try to get it right, and often succeed.

[Plays With Light]

Tony, we're still living in the dark ages, with copper wire runs to all the houses here. We're still as yet to find a website anywhere in the world that can deliver data fast enough to break 2Mbps! So we're not actually using what potential we have to the fullest. We have five of us using the web most all the time we are home. All I know is, we haven't had one complaint from the teens in regard to their online gaming lagging or getting booted since we switched a few months ago. Good lord am I glad not to hear that constant whinging anymore!

[nardes]

Hi Am

We received a mass "the NBN is coming" mail out "promising" NBN connectivity last month (June 2017) and we are still waiting....it seems that it has been rescheduled to Dec 2017 now???

Anyhow, from what I understand, once an NBN box has been nailed to your property (and it seems you have little choice in this matter unless you protest loudly) your current ISP may decommission your current connection after x days (I think 6 months was the industry suggestion) forcing you to connect to the NBN. I understand that some ISPs are enforcing this after 90 days from when the NBN service becomes available in your area?

I have lost/binned all of the bulk mail-out letters from which the above recollections are drawn, so be sure to check your local policies as I may have misunderstood or incorrectly interpreted some stuff.

Cheers

Dennis

[Tannin]

Ah, then it's Telstra's copper doing the work. (Technically, NBN Co's copper now.)

EDIT: Dennis: i's usually 18 months after the NBN in your area goes live. Up until then, you are entitles to retain your old copper service, but not to have a new one installed or disconnect and them reconnect to it. But check in case it is for some reason different for you.

(Obviously, the aim is to decommission the old, difficult-to-maintain copper system because it costs a fortune to keep running. Sadly, most of the new replacement systems now use copper anyway, which is equally prone to corrosion and water ingress. Fibre lasts pretty much forever and does not care if it is wet or dry.)

[ameerat42]

Assuming that you will most likely package your ISP, home phone and mobile...before jumping to Optus, just check if their mobile coverage suits you. I had an Optus mobile for work a few years ago and the coverage was not as wide as Telstra. If you don't travel much it probably won't make much difference but when you are on the road it does.

Yes, that's right about coverage. But would you believe in parts of Central Oz ALL fail!!!

--And then one day, whiile stumbling about Kata Tjutja, there was an Optus signal

A pleasant surprise (therefore some sort of trick) was quite viable WiFi at Kings Canyon.
Clearly, they want YOU to promote the place.

[Tannin]

If you want coverage in the outback, it's Telstra or bust. No-one is going to build towers out there. Telstra only built them because they had to, and they lose a lot of money maintaining them, which they are required to do under what is called a Universal Service Obligation. Retaining a given level of loss-making outback service was a condition of the original Telstra sale. (This was part of the price the Nationals extracted from John Howard for their support.)

Just a month or so ago, the other telcos applied to the regulatory authority for compulsory roaming rights on the Telstra outback tower networks, but that was refused. Telstra argued that they built them and pay for their maintenance, why should freeloaders be allowed to take advantage? Optus and Vodafail argued the reverse, of course.

Optus generally have good coverage in major country towns and tourist destinations, but if you want coverage in (say) outback Queensland, then it has to be Telstra or else a sat phone. I shouldn't think there would be an Optus tower anywhere between Cunnamulla and Birdsville. (There certainly wasn't the last time I was out that way with my old Optus phone. After a while I got sick of driving hundreds of kilometres just to call home and say "I'm fine. How are you? Good. Call you next week. Bye." and switched to Telstra.)

[sanger]

We've had 25/5 FTTN connected for about 12 months and speeds are usually around 24, upload rarely gets near 5.
Like ADSL dropouts are common.
Gaming teenagers are happy so it must be ok.
Personally for what I do the better speeds make bugger all difference to me.
We're with the number 1 ISP in customer service which funny enough are also number 1 for complaints, iinet.
As mentioned we get regular dropouts and have contacted support but their support is appalling.
Hours on hold and if you get through they have a ridiculous trouble shooting procedure that leaves you dumb founded and you give up.
I thought I was alone until I checked Product Review.

[ameerat42]

Hmm! Sounds bad, Sanger. I've had pretty plain sailing with SS Optus, with absolutely none of the above.

--And now I just H8 myself for sounding like an ad campaign.

Tannin. With an attitude like the one you describe for Telstrap, guess who gets the rough end of the tropical fruit!!
Surely Telstrap would charge other carriers so that there wouldn't be any "freeloathing". - And ultimately the user
would pay.