An ISO question

[tandeejay]

Id have thought that since ISO is a fairly predictable parameter (by which I mean that you'll pretty much always want it as low as possible, not counting Lo-1 or whatever rubbish settings) it would make sense to let the camera set it, while you pick the aperture and shutter speeds that suit the photo you want to take. So leave it in manual with auto ISO, and if the camera is metering wrong set some exposure compensation, which will result in the camera varying the ISO accordingly.

That is exactly what I was doing, but still the camera was struggling with the extreme difference between people in the stage lights and the dark background, varying the ISO way more than it needed. going full manual in my situation has greatly improved the quality of my photos. on average, I shoot at ISO 800, 1/125, 2.8, although at our recent Christmas production, we hired in additional lights, and I found I could drop my ISO to 400, increase shutter speed to 1/160, and even narrow the aperture to 4.

But this is a very specific situation. Under stage lights, I have found there is not much need to vary the exposure settings, but the camera kept changing its mind on what settings were required, and I needed to be very specific where I set the spot meter on. with full manual, I can set everything to what is required, and just concentrate on getting the focus right. No need to try and make a decision every shot about the exposure... once you have the settings right, just shoot away


Mostly I do use auto ISO and aperture mode.

[arthurking83]

I've been doing a bit of photography at church where there is stage lighting, and I initially started out using Aperture priority mode with Auto ISO, but I have recently changed to using manual with manual ISO, and found I'm getting much better and more consistent results. I was finding the high dynamic range between the people on the stage lit with lights and the background was just confusing the camera, and it was more often than not over-exposing.

....

Kind'a sorta makes sense to go manual in a situation like the church/stage one, as you'd expect the lighting to be consistent.
Had it been a rock concert with the possibility that the lighting would vary considerably from moment to moment(eg. imagine a Iron Maiden concert with lights blaring bright in unison with the music), then going full manual probably would have been an exercise in frustration.
Except if you knew the song/lighting routine and planned to shoot only at particular moments during the act.

That is exactly what I was doing, but still the camera was struggling with the extreme difference between people in the stage lights and the dark background, varying the ISO way more than it needed. going full manual in my situation has greatly improved the quality of my photos. ....

Have to ask the obvious question: what metering mode did you use in this situation?

I almost exclusively use spot metering. Probably 99.99% of the time.
Very rarely do I use matrix, and even more rarely centre weighted.

But in the above situation, I'd have switched from spot to matrix.
In fact, I'd probably have tested matrix and centre weighted to see how each would work for me.
I have very limited experience with non spot metering modes.

** just checked my archives **
Because my memory is lacking nowadays, I had to go back to view some images I have to remember what type of settings I've used over the years.
about 7 years ago kids had a school concert in a hall of some type, and the background was predominantly a black curtain, but also changed for each act(eg. to a bright rainbow on a blue background prop, and so on).
Those images I shot were all matrix, manual mode, and with varying degrees of exposure compensation.
I guess the reasoning was that the background wasn't really going to change during each act. So my reference point for exposure was going to be the background, whether the black curtain(with -1 Ev compensation) or the rainbow scene(-0.3 to 0 Ev).

If you used spot mode, then almost certainly the issue was something like the spot point being cast onto the dark background(I'm guessing black curtains, as per usual), and the camera trying to expose the black curtain as a mid grey tone if you don't dial in -ve exposure compensation to suit.
And (assuming) if the subjects were all wearing different coloured clothing(eg. some in all white and other in all black) then you'd have exposure variance in dealing with that too.

The issue with reliance on exposure compensation is the 'fumbling around' nature it entails.
On a D5500 type body with only the one control dial, you have to take your finger off the shutter release, and effect a two button combo to set any exposure compensation.
If you're predominantly concerned with composition, focus and tracking a particular subject, then dealing with exposure compensation could be more of a hindrance than being helpful(ie. a higher possibility of missing a shot).
But with the twin control type cameras(ie. D7xxx, D300 and up type bodies... as long as it has the twin dials!) you set quick compensation in the menu, and exposure compensation is a matter of turning the appropriate dial .. while you're still shooting.

So I'd say(if you ever do that kind of thing again) try matrix metering, manual mode, autoISO, and get a decent rendering of the background as a reference point.
The autoISO isn't important unless you're reframing the shot in a massively different manner. ie. going from a wide, general viewpoint to a zoomed in portrait framing of a specific character.

In the camera setup above(assuming a static background), the autoISO won't vary so wildly as the matrix 'sees' the background as the primary exposure reference .. it may vary but a couple of thirds or so(depending on camera settings used).
But, if you do decide to zoom in to a portrait scene, and you have -ve exposure compensation set, for the portrait shot, you have to adjust the compensation(obviously).

In AutoISO mode that's it .. worry only about the reframed shot now.
But in manual ISO mode, you also have to worry about what ISO setting may be needed too(because you're in manual mode).

Aperture Priority mode may not be suitable, depending on shutter speed requirements and lenses used .. and camera used too! But it may have been.
7 years back I had the D300, and it's AutoISO is nowhere near as useful as todays Nikon's autoISO modes, which allow to cater for minimum shutter speeds depending on focal length and stuff like that!

[tandeejay]

Yes, I was using spot metering. I should try Center weight and matrix. Not only is it the clothing colour, but we do have some Africans on the stage, so also skin colour with both white European and black African...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tandeejay]

Now that I'm on a real computer, I can respond in full to your comment (very hard to give indepth responses the attention they deserve when using Tapatalk on my phone)

Kind'a sorta makes sense to go manual in a situation like the church/stage one, as you'd expect the lighting to be consistent.
Had it been a rock concert with the possibility that the lighting would vary considerably from moment to moment(eg. imagine a Iron Maiden concert with lights blaring bright in unison with the music), then going full manual probably would have been an exercise in frustration.
Except if you knew the song/lighting routine and planned to shoot only at particular moments during the act.

Lighting was definitely consistent... (apart from the lighting guy liking to use blue and/or magenta wash at times... makes for extreme difficulty getting the white balance right... white light from the front, and then a mix of blue and magenta from the back...)

one button and dial rotation to change the iso if needed, or no button with the dial to change the shutter speed... (I just got to remember, left button for ISO, right button for Aperture )

Have to ask the obvious question: what metering mode did you use in this situation?

As answered above, I was using spot metering.

So I'd say(if you ever do that kind of thing again) try matrix metering, manual mode, autoISO, and get a decent rendering of the background as a reference point.
The autoISO isn't important unless you're reframing the shot in a massively different manner. ie. going from a wide, general viewpoint to a zoomed in portrait framing of a specific character.

I will experiment with centre weight and matrix metering modes next time, however, I'm quite happy with the results now I'm using manual everything, but will be interesting to see. An increase in keepers would be a positive result

In the camera setup above(assuming a static background), the autoISO won't vary so wildly as the matrix 'sees' the background as the primary exposure reference .. it may vary but a couple of thirds or so(depending on camera settings used).
But, if you do decide to zoom in to a portrait scene, and you have -ve exposure compensation set, for the portrait shot, you have to adjust the compensation(obviously).

In AutoISO mode that's it .. worry only about the reframed shot now.
But in manual ISO mode, you also have to worry about what ISO setting may be needed too(because you're in manual mode).

Aperture Priority mode may not be suitable, depending on shutter speed requirements and lenses used .. and camera used too! But it may have been.
7 years back I had the D300, and it's AutoISO is nowhere near as useful as todays Nikon's autoISO modes, which allow to cater for minimum shutter speeds depending on focal length and stuff like that!

Mostly using my Sigma 105mm (due to it's f2.8 max aperture) so no zooming for me, except with my feet a 70-200mm f2.8 would give me more options, but one of those is (quite) a little way off yet... unless someone donates me one ...

[arthurking83]

With white balance, always try to look for something white(eg. clothing) in a scene as the first port of call, otherwise estimate something grey(even a silvery/chrome thing could work) and as a third option you can use black(thick heavy background curtains).

Of course if they add a heavy blue tint, then the white grey or black subject will also have a strong blue cast too.

The via your raw converter, should have an option to either set a whitebalance dropper point on one image but in a batch over the entire selection of images(ViewNX2 does this pretty well and easily)
What I do is test the dropper tool on one image, and make small adjustments to the location of the dropper over the point selection, and use a broader sized dropper(ie. an area rather than a point).
The main reason it may not come out looking balanced could(most likely) be due to noise in the image. Moving the dropper around the area of interest changes the effect .. I've yet to not get a good WB rendering using this tool.

I reckon you'll get more success with Matrix than with Centre weighted.

And if you do go 70-200 for such a situation again .. make sure it's a stabilised model.

And also take into consideration that D7100 and D7200's will now be quite reasonably priced now with their(actual or technical) discontinuation. You may find new 'run out' models cheaply, or even a S/H.
Reason I bring this up as an option is simply for the twin dial and hence quick compensation ability they offer.

eg. if in Aperture priority mode, with quick compensation on, you turn the shutter dial and it's job then is to set exposure compensation. I use this literally .. all the time.

So, in a sense, your Aperture priority mode becomes a psuedo manual mode but with auto exposure ability.
In Auto ISO mode, it doesn't really affect shutter speed until ISO has 'bottomed out' or topped out.

[tandeejay]

Yep. I do all that... the problem is when the people at the front of the stage are illuminated by the white lights, and the people at the back of the stage illuminated with blue light... or worse, blue light from the left and magenta light from the right... that white point dropper only works for the people at the front, and there have been some colours, that even the white point dropper can't push the values far enough with the temp slider hard right over at 50000K, and the tint slider hard left at -150... the magenta lights I've found I can correct using the HSL sliders in light room, the blue tint I am still working on eliminating without turning the skin grey. The issue is that different parts of the image have different white points. Someone has "thoughtfully" put white stickers on the microphones which I find mostly work with the WB dropper

[arthurking83]

Ah! I get 'ya now..

mixed lighting .. hate the stuff!

I remember once I was in Brighton at night, and taking shots of the beach houses down there.
They had fluoro lights and sodium lights for the area and made the images look totally carp!

WB was no help at all.
Had to learn(for the first time) how to use the colour sliders(in CaptureNX2) as opposed to the normal point and click style of local editing.

So I mean this in a nice way, but .... better you, than me having to deal with it

[tandeejay]

Sometimes, conversion to B&W is the only way to save a photo with mixed WB...

Haven't used CaptureNX2 for a while (since getting into LightRoom)... might have a play with the colour sliders in there to see if I can do any better than the colour sliders in LR...