Is this another Adobe rip-off ???

[ameerat42]

Givvem some fiery feedback (PM me for some SQUARE words)

[arthurking83]

.....

Adobe's offshore divisions have no legal obligation to charge GST until July 1, 2017. And I can assure you that my CS6 download came from Adobe.com, and not from Adobe.com.au.

It depends!
Our tax system is different to other countries. We report tax from Jul-Jun, whereas other countries do full year(s)(Jan-Dec) others do Apr-Mar .. etc.

I'm assuming that (say)in the USA the tax year may be Jan-Dec or something like that, so Adobe are pre prepping for their USA tax needs, by registering for Aus GST effective Jan 1 2017 .. or something like that

Once they're registered for GST(here), they have to charge/collect/pay back ... etc, etc.

I dunno, I'm worse at taxes and accounting that I am at giving helpful advice! ... so I'm just guessing.
But I do know, once you're registered you're in the system and it bites hard if you don't do the GST stuff properly.

So while the legislation says that they don't have to do it .. yet, they can do it(charge GST) as they obviously have greater than $75K turnover.

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I was too curious, so had to search:

IRS Tax year info

Jan 01 - Dec 31.

So it makes sense.
(assumption again)All their doing is streamlining their accounting work by starting 'fresh' for their home accounts needs.

So lets say if Japan has an accounting period from April - March and also entered into this consumption tax agreement(highly likely!), then I assume that if Japan legislated for their GST reporting to begin on Apr 01 2017, Adobe would most likely still begin charging on Dec-Jan coming. But if Japan legislated to begin complusory GST reporting in Apr '18, then Adobe will probably start charging in Japan next Dec(or something).

I reckon if they started to collect GST for all the different country requirements at the time of any legislated requirement, they'd be swamped with various influxes at various stages for all the differing countries making the accounts a bit of a nightmare*cutting in at different periods) .. so it'd be easier just to start fresh for their home needs from their Day1.

[ricktas]

Andrew I think you are missing my point. I'll give Adobe the benefit of the doubt and concur that they may just be trying to improve their corporate image, and get some brownie points from the ATO.

However they are stepping outside the legislated (?) guidelines. It would be like all states introducing a maximum speed limit of 80 klm/hr, effective from July 1, 2017, and then fining everyone who exceeded that limit from December 1, 2016 onward.

It depends how the legislation is written. I deal with this stuff daily. If the legislation states it has to start on a date, or that companies must be compliant by that date. That slight difference in wording means a hell of a lot.

I am presently dealing with some new legislation that comes into force on the 1st December 2016, but inside the legislation is a clause that companies must be fully compliant within 5 years of that date. So some will start working on compliance from the 1st December (or earlier, like me) and some will leave it till mid 2021 (or later) to even start looking at it. I have seen it all to often, and helped other companies get compliant, at the last minute, cause they decide to just leave it, then find they are rushing around with no idea, when they realise they need to be compliant by next week.

Perhaps we need a link to this GST legislation to see if it states starts on, or compliant by...

[ricktas]

Oh, and I read somewhere that the Treasurer is only doing this to give local sellers an even playing field. Neglected to mention that the Government expects to cop $300 Billion pa from the exercise. Perhaps if most of the local sellers entered the real world with their pricing instead of asking MSRP, they may be more competitive.

Doing some reading it appears the expected revenue is $350 MILLION not Billion Per Annum... and the bill came into effect from the 1st January 2017 and that companies must be fully compliant with the legislation from the 1st July... meaning they can start to, or fully comply earlier than 1st July 2017.

[arthurking83]

.....

Oh, and I read somewhere that the Treasurer is only doing this to give local sellers an even playing field. Neglected to mention that the Government expects to cop $300 Billion pa from the exercise. Perhaps if most of the local sellers entered the real world with their pricing instead of asking MSRP, they may be more competitive.

Actually, of all the DUMBA$$ things any treasurer has ever said .. this has to be excluded!


While I agree that import duties can be detrimental to economies, for our own sake, the Govt has to do more to keep 1/. the Aussie dollar, and 2/. taxes at a point where the playing field is level.

With dwindling sales due to O/S prices all retailers are forced to up their prices, making their competitiveness even harder.
Our tax system is one of the worst in the world, compared to the countries we generally tend to buy from!(how many folks here have purchased stuff from Nigeria! )

Yeah, some retailers price gouge, but a lot of the price gouging is coming from the importer/wholesaler .. and in some instances, both(ie. collusion).
I've heard of instances where a retailer will force the wholesaler to sell to them for an extremely low price and force them to sell to other smaller retailers at disproportional higher prices!
if the wholesaler doesn't agree, then the forceful retailer doesn't deal with them at all(ie. many thousands of lost sales = many thousands more to the competitors!)


So, if they can't fully control the exchange rate and don't want to set import tariffs, and couldn't be previously bothered to levy sales taxes onto (privately)imported goods ... how the hell do local retailers ever compete?

Seriously, I were were treasurer you'd hate me even more than we all hate Morrison ATM!

1/. I'd have (tried to) set non Aussie GST to 20% .. maybe even more.
2/. do whatever it takes(in terms of legislation) to break the stranglehold that large business have over smaller businesses ... basically make it harder to be an enormous corporation.

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Actually, of all the DUMBA$$ things any treasurer has ever said .. this has to be excluded!


While I agree that import duties can be detrimental to economies, for our own sake, the Govt has to do more to keep 1/. the Aussie dollar, and 2/. taxes at a point where the playing field is level.

With dwindling sales due to O/S prices all retailers are forced to up their prices, making their competitiveness even harder.
Our tax system is one of the worst in the world, compared to the countries we generally tend to buy from!(how many folks here have purchased stuff from Nigeria! )

Yeah, some retailers price gouge, but a lot of the price gouging is coming from the importer/wholesaler .. and in some instances, both(ie. collusion).
I've heard of instances where a retailer will force the wholesaler to sell to them for an extremely low price and force them to sell to other smaller retailers at disproportional higher prices!
if the wholesaler doesn't agree, then the forceful retailer doesn't deal with them at all(ie. many thousands of lost sales = many thousands more to the competitors!)


So, if they can't fully control the exchange rate and don't want to set import tariffs, and couldn't be previously bothered to levy sales taxes onto (privately)imported goods ... how the hell do local retailers ever compete?

Seriously, I were were treasurer you'd hate me even more than we all hate Morrison ATM!

1/. I'd have (tried to) set non Aussie GST to 20% .. maybe even more.
2/. do whatever it takes(in terms of legislation) to break the stranglehold that large business have over smaller businesses ... basically make it harder to be an enormous corporation.

and ps. it should be remembered that GST goes to the states, not feds!! .. you want hospitals and all that stuff don'cha!

The reason we all got the GST way back when, was because it was deemed illegal for states to charge duties and sales taxes, so this was the only way they could(via the federal system) so it all goes back to states .. disproportionally!

[Cage]

Doing some reading it appears the expected revenue is $350 MILLION not Billion Per Annum... and the bill came into effect from the 1st January 2016 and that companies must be fully compliant with the legislation from the 1st July... meaning they can start to, or fully comply earlier than 1st July 2016.

Ooops, what's $349.965 Billion amongst friends. That difference would sure help with our deficit.

re the dates it comes into effect see here .... https://www.ato.gov.au/General/New-l...mported-goods/ although the date for public comment is possibly wrong as the tax is mooted to come into effect five months earlier.

and here .... http://www.treasury.gov.au/~/media/T...lue_goods.ashx

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and ps. it should be remembered that GST goes to the states, not feds!! .. you want hospitals and all that stuff don'cha!

Dunno what's going on in Mexico Artie but our premier is busy flogging off our public infrastructure to overseas interests and privatising our hospitals.

[arthurking83]

Same here in Mexico City too!
They just sold off the ports(everything else was sold years before by Kennett, so noting else for Labour to sell now ) .. and are arguing over what to waste that cash bonus on.

I'm sure they'll discover some idiotic government party or ball to waste a billion and half dollars on .... sooner rather than later!

....


Going from that treasury link, the only real rort I can see is where the ATO require an O/S service provider to register for GST.
That provider may well register and charge us the GST component, but I can see difficulties in the ATO enforcing that 10% charge to actually flow into Aus!

Bottom line, I reckon the ATO just gave those fly by nighters from O/S a legitimate method for them to extort an extra 10% of our hard earned to holiday in Argentina with!

We can only hope that any deals and agreements made with O/S corporate agencies are pretty tight.

[Cage]

Artie, I'm guessing that the only chance the ATO have in enforcing this legislation in Australia is with those overseas corporations that have a presence in Australia, ie an ABN.

I very much doubt that our Government has any powers to force the millions of smaller offshore sellers to collect, account for, and forward on the applicable GST. Their easy out is to seek cover under the $75,000.00 pa turnover threshold, or just ignore it altogether, although some will undoubtedly charge it and pocket the change.

So who are they after. Not much of a guessing game here. The big 'M' and the big 'A' would be right on top of their list, and anyone else that gets caught in the net will be an added bonus.

[Brian500au]

You are kidding aren't you. You pay Adobe less than $180 a year for brilliant software and you are peeved. Are you peeved paying $800 registration for you car, $900 for insurance or $2000 for house rates? Dam if you buy a house you are paying 25K+ to the state government just for the property to change hands.

if Adobe charge $360 per year for their software, it would still be a bargain for what we do with it. GST is GST - blame the government but don't blame Adobe. Adobe are not profiting from the GST.

[ameerat42]

...Are you peeved paying $800 registration for you car, $900 for insurance or $2000 for house rates? Dam if you buy a house you are paying 25K+ to the state government just for the property to change hands...

Yes! I'm peeved at all the above. That way I stay (what I consider to be) sane

[Cage]

You are kidding aren't you. You pay Adobe less than $180 a year for brilliant software and you are peeved. Are you peeved paying $800 registration for you car, $900 for insurance or $2000 for house rates? Dam if you buy a house you are paying 25K+ to the state government just for the property to change hands.

if Adobe charge $360 per year for their software, it would still be a bargain for what we do with it. GST is GST - blame the government but don't blame Adobe. Adobe are not profiting from the GST.

No buddy, I'm not kidding.

If you had bothered to read the thread you would know that it is not the amount that I pay that I have an issue with. It is Adobe's ill conceived or ill informed decision to start charging us GST seven months before they are legally obliged to.

For starters the ATO won't be geared up to legally receive such payments until after July 1, 2017 and they will probably go into some sort of holding account, eventually to disappear into consolidated revenue.

And yes, I do pay rego, rates and insurance, on the due date, and not seven months before I'm legally obliged to.

PS: For the record my annual Adobe CS6 subscription is $119.40 and at 32.7 cents a day I agree it's a bargain.

[arthurking83]

....

PS: For the record my annual Adobe CS6 subscription is $119.40 and at 32.7 cents a day I agree it's a bargain.

And here I am thinking that the $99.95 I paid for CaptureNX2 10 years ago was over the top!

[mpb]

I beg to differ Mark.

There was a legislated tax free threshold of $1000.00. That is now being withdrawn, from July 1, 2017.

What I was getting at is that Adobe should have always been charging the GST.
Yes, there is a $1000 threshold on imported goods.
I don't believe that the threshold applies to Adobe because they have an Australian presence, they advertise here, sell their products in bricks and mortar shops etc.
They are simply getting around the GST loophole by invoicing through an overseas company.
If you read the fine print on the email they sent you, they actually confirm this, ie "Adobe Systems Software Ireland Ltd is invoicing in its capacity as a duly authorized agent for Adobe Australia Trading Pty Ltd ...etc"
It is like buying a new $900 lens from any of the makers Australian websites and them saying "If you pay direct to our head office overseas, you will not have to pay the GST."

[Brian500au]

Actually Cage I have read your post - and what you quote below is just your opinion.

You really think a company the size of Adobe is "ill conceived" or "ill Informed" when it comes to GST? There may even be a case they should have been charging GST all along, and have come to an agreement with the ATO to start charging GST now and will not be fined for not complying earlier. Do you really think collecting GST on behalf of the ATO for no profit is something Adobe agreed to blindly. You do realise this is at a cost with no financial benefit to Adobe. In fact there a people out there who will cancel their membership with Adobe because of this one dollar increase per month.

No buddy, I'm not kidding.

If you had bothered to read the thread you would know that it is not the amount that I pay that I have an issue with. It is Adobe's ill conceived or ill informed decision to start charging us GST seven months before they are legally obliged to.

For starters the ATO won't be geared up to legally receive such payments until after July 1, 2017 and they will probably go into some sort of holding account, eventually to disappear into consolidated revenue.

[bricat]

I love these threads. Firstly you have a right to be peeved and express your opinion. Now as to why they are charging GST from Jan.17 is another matter. To be compliant they must register first to get their ABN. Perhaps some lackey has misread the fine print and nobody has checked.
They employ many people to avoid certain things.
After contacting Adobe then the ATO with no satisfaction I would forward my complaint to the Ombudsman.
There will be a simple explanation.

Ps. When buying from grey importers the fine print can say the buyer is responsible for taxes and duties

[Cage]

A quote from my original post.

Thank you for being a valued Adobe customer. We wanted to share an important change to the tax you currently pay on your Adobe products and services.
Starting December 1, 2016, Adobe will begin to charge 10% GST on all goods and services to our customers in Australia. Learn more. Your next bill, on or after this date, will reflect the new tax rate. Note that this change does not affect the base price of your Adobe products.

I've just received notification of my January payment to Adobe. I've been paying $9.99 per month for a couple of years, and YES, I do think it's worth it.

Now unless I've totally lost the plot with basic arithmetic, $9.99 + 10% is $9.99 + $0.999, and after rounding up should come to $10.99. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

My new monthly charge is now $13.19, an increase of $3.20, or 32%. HUH ?????

Comments from those more knowledgeable than myself in our tax laws appreciated.

[Gazza]

That made me go and check my account. Only charged $10.99 here...Phew! (you must be special - )
Agree, still worth it -

[Glenda]

I'm only paying $10.99 also. Damn, Kev another thing to check out for you.

[Cage]

Just been on 'Chat' with Sharif at Adobe and this is a transcript of part of our chat.

Kevin, due to currency fluctuation the price for subscription has been change from $9.99 to A$ 11.99/month in August. However, you have been charged $9.99/month only since you have already have a annual commitment placed previously.

Customers who have placed already before the subscription price change has been charged $9.99.month for current annual commitment.

The new subscription price will be effective once the annual commitment ends and renewed for another year.

So Gazza and Glenda, I guess you can look forward to an increase when your annual sub is up for renewal.

And I still don't think Adobe is obliged to charge GST until July 1, 2017.

[Glenda]

And to make matters worse they say the Aus$ will head even lower this year with some predicting even as low as 50c.