Is there anybody out there ???

[Cage]

After looking at these shots from the Hubble Telescope on the NASA website, I think it is more than a remote possibility, like a trillion°°.

https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/g...-sun-like-star

But it is also a possibility that life on our little speck may be the beginning. How scary is that thought, given that we are doing our utmost to stuff it up.

[ameerat42]

I agree. - On all counts!

(Edit after your edit.) Oops! You added something. Nah. I don't think it's that bad.

[John King]

Kev, check out the Drake Equation here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

It's really a dead cert that there must be intelligent life in the Universe. After all, it is really, really, REALLY BIG ...

[Cage]

It's really a dead cert that there must be intelligent life in the Universe. After all, it is really, really, REALLY BIG ...

And for "After all, it is really, really, REALLY BIG ...", substitute 'INFINITE'

When one allows the mind to consider the infinite, all, and every computation, is probable. John, it is not inconceivable that you and I could be having this discourse at an infinite number of locations.

PS: re Drake's Equation: In my tiny mind I can't quite work out how you can quantify the infinite.

[ameerat42]

And for "After all, it is really, really, REALLY BIG ...", substitute 'INFINITE'

When one allows the mind to consider the infinite, all, and every computation, is probable. John, it is not inconceivable that you and I could be having this discourse at an infinite number of locations.

And instead of "infinite", substitute "Finite but unbounded" - Or so I've heard.

Anyway, it's academic. Recall the "Infinite Improbability Drive"

[John King]

I am of the opinion, based on logic and belief, that the Universe is infinite in both space and time.

I have serious difficulties with the 'bounded universe' that is implicit (and sometimes explicit) in the big bang theory. The latter also makes little sense to me mathematically on several levels.

Other theories (plasma, 'tired' light, etc) make more sense to me in that they accord better with the facts as observed rather than forcing the facts to conform to some preconceived mathematical model.

[ameerat42]

We just dunno, John. I doubt we will ever "know". It would be illogical to actually "know"
the "nature of the universe". To do so, you'd need to be standing outside "it". So there's
the problem. Bad enough we already have an expression "the universe"! Ridiculous, actually!
So it's a lot of arm-waving for now

[John King]

Quite. We're on the same wavelength, I suspect ... .

[arthurking83]

Is there anybody out there??? ....

As Inspector Clouseau would say .. Not any more!

.. well at least not orbiting NGC 2440 now!


.. oh! maybe it's just me, but I can never understand this NEED to search for intelligent life 'out there'!

Let's turn the telescopes 180° and search for it here on this planet first!

[martycon]

If no others are there, what a great opportunity to do it repeat our exploitation on a grander scale!

[John King]

^ Dolphins ...

Perhaps the occasional ape-descended, brachiating ape?

[Mark L]

We live here now and who's out there doesn't really matter.
Can we preserve our here for a bit later than know, and who's out there doesn't really matter.

[Steve Axford]

I disagree. I think it would make a huge difference if we found evidence of other intelligent life. Think of all the human-centric theories that would be brought into question. It would direct our thoughts outward instead of the inward looking selfishness that seems to consume us at times. It would make us realise that we really don't matter all that much - unless we do things that would make us matter to the universe as a whole.

[arthurking83]

..... It would make us realise that we really don't matter all that much - unless we do things that would make us matter to the universe as a whole.

The problem is going to be what we do to make our existence in the universe 'matter'.

With history as a guide and with a high degree of certainly, our impact in the universe would be to the detriment of the rest of place.

* Without doubt, the missionaries would be out there trying to convert newly discovered indigenous civilisations to some lunatic montheistic belief systems.
* Our captains of industry would seek to increase ownership of everything, to the detriment of those same indigenous peoples.
* .. and almost everyone else would probably see them as new fodder for whatever illegal and immoral activities they currently partake in!

on reflection, maybe our search for extra terrestrial intelligent life isn't such a great idea when viewed from an external point of view!

[Steve Axford]

Arthur, I guess that would assume that we are more advanced than any discovered intelligent life. But, what if we weren't? That would give us some serious reason to reevaluate. And the discover of any intelligent life, would imply that there was more, and that it was inevitable that some of those more would be more advanced than we were.
It would also mean that if we destroyed ourselves, then - so what? We would know with absolute certainty that all we were was a bit of genetic diversity, and look at how we scorn that.

[ameerat42]

The BORG will soon invade and ASSIMILATE us all.
Speculation is futile (pronounce "futile" as "foo-tle").

[arthurking83]

Arthur, I guess that would assume that we are more advanced than any discovered intelligent life. But, what if we weren't? That would give us some serious reason to reevaluate. ....

Even if any discovered life were more advanced .. that wouldn't necessarily constitute corrupt attitude as well!
I live in hope that advancement doesn't need to follow corrupt practices .. and that whatever other intelligent life out there isn't so inclined.

But there's always the possibility that these advanced ETs may provide shared knowledge to our civilisation, oblivious to the fact that our leaders are basically all corrupt in some way or another.

So for our sake, we can really only pray that they're not as corrupt as we are, or worse.
We need to tread carefully as to how intelligent we want our ETs to be

[Steve Axford]

We need to tread carefully as to how intelligent we want our ETs to be

I doubt we'll get a say it

p.s. Arthur, I detect a certain disillusionment with our politicians. It does vary, and if we just say all politicians are corrupt, then that leaves us open to the likes of Donald Trump (or an Australian version thereof). If they are all as bad as each other, then why not have a Donald?

[arthurking83]

I reckon it'd be nice to know what 'our leaders' contingency plans are when it goes a bit further south than they expected, once some/any contact is finally established.

I think contact will be inevitable, the chances are highly unlikely that we are the only intelligent life forms in the galaxy, let alone the universe.

The problem arises if the ETs are more Klingon like, rather than Vulcan like(if you know what I mean).

Everyone concerns themselves with burden our children may have to bear due to the consequences of this so called global warming, when the real threat could be something from left field ... like 'first contact'.

[Cage]

As I said in my original post "But it is also a possibility that life on our little speck may be the beginning. How scary is that thought, given that we are doing our utmost to stuff it up."

OK, the odds are infinitely against that possibility, but, it is still a possibility, however remote. That possibility concerns me.