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Thread: Is AP over-run by bird photographers?

  1. #1
    Administrator ricktas's Avatar
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    Is AP over-run by bird photographers?

    I have had this issue raised with me a few times of late, and this evening I have conversed with another member. There has been the suggestion that the site is Bird focused.

    Firstly, It is not my role to tell people what to post to the forums, so if bird photographers are more active and it concerns you, then start posting more photos from other genre, and level out the imbalance you perceive to exist. I am not about to tell the birders to stop posting cause a landscaper is concerned about how many bird threads there are.

    Secondly, it was pointed out that the competitions are often full of bird entries. So I decided to get some stats. Since 17th January we have had 21 photo of the week competitions. In that time a bird photo has won 4 times. So whilst the competitions might have a lot of bird entries, the results show that they do not necessarily win..all the time. I also went back through several recent competitions to see how many bird entries there were. I got 21 bird entries and 135 non bird entries.

    So, if you feel there are too many bird photographers and threads/competition entries on AP, there is one solution as I see it, start posting more stuff that isn't birds and start critiquing those threads. We cannot have more non-bird stuff, unless the people concerned about it, start posting more non-bird stuff on the site.

    However from the above, the perception that the site is bird focused appears to be not as true as some are making it seem.
    Last edited by ricktas; 27-06-2016 at 6:40am.
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    Way Down Yonder in the Paw Paw Patch jim's Avatar
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    Yes it is, and there needs to be a cull.

    Seriously surely it's not the birders' fault if others aren't pulling their weight.
    Last edited by jim; 26-06-2016 at 9:39pm.

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    Ausphotography irregular Mark L's Avatar
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    Rick's covered the comps bit well.
    Our perceptions are easily affirmed but sometimes not right.

    Quote Originally Posted by ricktas View Post

    If you are concerned about it, the solution is to post non-bird stuff, and critique non-bird stuff...more.
    And just don't look at the bird sub-forum if birds are a problem. But I assume the complaints don't come from people that look there, so why raise the problem?

    I'm not much into macro, but I won't complain if you are. (wouldn't mind a few more macros in the comps to compete with them birds that generally don't win.)


    Last edited by Mark L; 26-06-2016 at 9:54pm. Reason: man, some birders need to learn how to spell properlee

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    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    To say that AP is overrun by bird photographers implies that they somehow exclude or curtail or otherwise hinder everything else.

    As this is clearly NOT the case, then perhaps the perception could be rendered ONLY as "Gee! There are a lot of bird pics on AP"

    The is an important part of the observation.

    Numerically, the bird photographers here are a minority. It may be correct to say (and I'm not saying it) that bird photographers make
    prolific posts on AP (and say it if you like alliteration)

    If, however, more people suddenly just posted more pics (Note to self to do) as they are quite free to do, then the
    subject spurious remark that prompted the thread would be shown to be insubstantial as any valid observation.

    The rest is irrelevant
    (What, for example? Tell the birders NOT to post so much, or to post something else? - THAT'S not the spirit)

    m(wishing I had not given so much time to this silly idea).
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    Still in the Circle of Confusion Cage's Avatar
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    I tought I taw a birdie, I did, I did, I taw a birdie ...

    What a noughty birdie, showing his/her birdie bits ....

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    Ooopss, sorry, another bird picture.
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    Ausphotography Regular MissionMan's Avatar
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    The response from the birders on this post kind of points in this direction. I'm sorry to say that they show that some of the birders don't have the ability to look beyond birds

    There are two aspects to this:

    1. Number of bird posts vs others on the forum (currently on the front page, it has 30 posts with 17 bird related posts. with more than half dedicated to one genre, the numbers speak for themselves. Is it overrun by birds? Yes. That's a separate issue and I can understand where some people might find it difficult to go through 50% of posts that may not be of interest. I've had people tell me they can't be bother to give feedback because every post is a bird post. Perhaps a forum filter may be an option for non-birders but I don't know how technically feasible this is. 17 out of 30 dedicated to one genre is a lot no matter what way you spin it. Yes, people could post more of other genres but I don't think you can say it isn't overrun by birders when more than 50% of the posts come from birders.

    2. Competitions - I think you need to look at which competitions allowed for bird posts. Not every competition will allow for a bird related entry so it's not a fair comparison. The challenge with voting is I think people are voting based on what genre they like rather than which is the best photo and I think in some cases people need to differentiate between which is a best entry rather than which entry appeals to their only personal photography style. Do we really want a situation where people are only voting on genre, doesn't this defeat the point? This seems to be more prevalent in the open comps than anything else. I'll often see bird photos making it into the final 4 when there are better entries out there. I've seen incredible motocross pictures from Warbler (I think) that get low rankings compared to other photos simply because they have a different genre.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissionMan View Post
    I've seen incredible motocross pictures from Warbler (I think) that get low rankings compared to other photos simply because they have a different genre.
    Gee thanks MM. I appreciate your comments. Sports images don't tend to do very well on many sites. It's the nature of the beast I'm afraid. I don't take the comps too seriously anyway. People seem to know who they're voting for, or not voting for, anyway. Apart from the Travel Photo comp, it's not sheep-stations anyway. No, it wasn't me who Rick was speaking about either. I used to be a birder myself, but I found they had deep pockets and no arms.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I tell you what I have noticed though, and that's a drop in the numbers of members on-line. That might be contributing to what you're observing MM. I still like to view many bird images and of course other genres too, even if I don't critique a large number of them.

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    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    If anytrhing, your whole post is a vote for the opposite of what you're saying...
    Quote Originally Posted by MissionMan View Post
    The response from the birders on this post kind of points in this direction. I'm sorry to say that they show that some of the birders don't have the ability to look beyond birds...
    Are you saying they like posting pictures of/have a general preference for birds? This may be the case.
    Is it a real lack of some ability - presumably of self-betterment? I don't see how.

    Quote Originally Posted by MissionMan View Post
    There are two aspects to this:

    1. Number of bird posts vs others on the forum (currently on the front page, it has 30 posts with 17 bird related posts. with more than half dedicated to one genre, the numbers speak for themselves. Is it overrun by birds? Yes. That's a separate issue and I can understand where some people might find it difficult to go through 50% of posts that may not be of interest. I've had people tell me they can't be bother to give feedback because every post is a bird post. Perhaps a forum filter may be an option for non-birders but I don't know how technically feasible this is. 17 out of 30 dedicated to one genre is a lot no matter what way you spin it. Yes, people could post more of other genres but I don't think you can say it isn't overrun by birders when more than 50% of the posts come from birders.

    2. Competitions - I think you need to look at which competitions allowed for bird posts. Not every competition will allow for a bird related entry so it's not a fair comparison. The challenge with voting is I think people are voting based on what genre they like rather than which is the best photo and I think in some cases people need to differentiate between which is a best entry rather than which entry appeals to their only personal photography style. Do we really want a situation where people are only voting on genre, doesn't this defeat the point? This seems to be more prevalent in the open comps than anything else. I'll often see bird photos making it into the final 4 when there are better entries out there. I've seen incredible motocross pictures from Warbler (I think) that get low rankings compared to other photos simply because they have a different genre.
    In Point 1 above I cannot see where there is an intrinsic problem caused by bird posts. It is surely not in the mere number alone. If you do mean that it is, then what does it really say?
    The implication is that it is a somewhat lamentable situation. However, I would say that the opposite - I think I hinted at it before somewhere above - viz. is this actually a "birders/bird posts" problem?
    Also, your point implies an attribution of "some fault" to non-birders for not posting enough at all, because surely they are not being blocked by birders.
    (I think that'll do for this point)

    In point 2 you would know that Mark L could nullify any such bird-exclusion rule with a bird pic On the positive side, most competitions are couched to be fairly open, both in
    genres allowed or disallowed, and in the photographic ability of the entrants. And on how the people vote - based on favourite genre - how do you know that it happens like that?
    I know that when I vote (and I will subject myself to a public whipping at lunch-time for not voting more often) I certainly go for things that I am not particularly familiar with.
    I would not go so far as to impute a lack of understanding to the other users in influencing their votes. I think your last sentence in point 2 is particularly imaginative.
    (Ohw, that'll do, too.)

    Well, I hope you don't mind my response, but I prefer a reasonable interpretation of facts rather than spin too.

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    Ausphotography Regular John King's Avatar
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    Perhaps someone needs to put a cat among the pigeons?

    Here's the lovely Lizzie thinking about birdies ...



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    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    JK. Australia is over-run by cats, anyone?

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    Carpe Diem... Gazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissionMan View Post
    Perhaps a forum filter may be an option for non-birders but I don't know how technically feasible this is.
    Isn't that already in place....?

    If you prefer 'SPORT AND ACTION' click on that, or, in your case 'PEOPLE' → 'CANDIDS' → 'FAMILY' etc etc...

    I would have thought that these headings would filter everything down to your personal choice?

    I could be wrong?...that's happened quite a few times before
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    Ausphotography Regular MissionMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ameerat42 View Post
    If anytrhing, your whole post is a vote for the opposite of what you're saying...

    Are you saying they like posting pictures of/have a general preference for birds? This may be the case.
    Is it a real lack of some ability - presumably of self-betterment? I don't see how.
    Hi Ameerat

    Yes, that's exactly what I am saying. Those posting photos of birds seem to have a preference for bird photos when it comes to competition voting, or at least that's what it looks like. I can send you examples, but I don't want to insult forum members here by trying to say their bird photos weren't up to scratch.

    Please don't take this wrong, I don't have an issue with bird posts, and I think there are really good bird posts/photos, but I've seen bird posts make it to the final when they should not have and that's a reality.

    On point number 1, what I am saying is when it becomes hard for people to find non-birding posts to critique, it reaches a point where some users may not critique at all.

    regards,

    Athol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gazza View Post
    Isn't that already in place....?

    If you prefer 'SPORT AND ACTION' click on that, or, in your case 'PEOPLE' → 'CANDIDS' → 'FAMILY' etc etc...

    I would have thought that these headings would filter everything down to your personal choice?

    I could be wrong?...that's happened quite a few times before
    Which is fine if you only look at 1 genre, but if you can provide critique on 10, then that becomes harder which is exactly why there is a recent posts section.
    Last edited by MissionMan; 27-06-2016 at 12:47pm.

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    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    OK, MM. That's OK. Well, I'll just stick to my point:

    "Bird Posters Will Not Be Prosecuted"

    and

    "Neither will Non-bird Posters"

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    Ausphotography Regular MissionMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ameerat42 View Post
    OK, MM. That's OK. Well, I'll just stick to my point:

    "Bird Posters Will Not Be Prosecuted"

    and

    "Neither will Non-bird Posters"
    I'll speak to my lawyer.

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    Ausphotography Addict Lplates's Avatar
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    I think the bird forum seems to be more popular because a lot of members who post in that section seem to take photographs on a daily basis, whereas landscapes/architecture/people photographers don't. I must admit to just using the headings for each section rather than the recent posts. Yes I always stick to my favourite genres and only if I have time check out some of the others.
    Glenda


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    Go the Rabbitohs mudman's Avatar
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    this site is doing Alfred Hitchcock proud
    cc and enjoy

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    Moderately Underexposed I @ M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warbler View Post
    I used to be a birder myself, but I found they had deep pockets and no arms.
    Yeah, I gave it away as well when I found out that you don't need more than 10mm lenses for the blighters. That blew my rationale of using birding as an excuse for a 600 F/4.

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    ^Nice.... I hope laughing boy bought that one off you.

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    You could have this for under US$600. 2000mm focal length. VR. 7fps. 16MP. Tell the wife that you don't even have to leave the verandah to get your birdie jollies.

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    Ausphotography Addict feathers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudman View Post
    this site is doing Alfred Hitchcock proud

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