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Thread: APS-C lens for 7D Mark II?

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    APS-C lens for 7D Mark II?

    Hi,

    When deciding on a telephoto lens, should I be focusing on putting a quality APSC lens on an APSC body, and a full frame lens to match a full frame body?
    If I get a full frame lens for an APSC body like the 7D Mark II, how will I know that that combination will deliver sharp results?

    I am currently looking at something like the EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II or a Tamron SP AF 70-200MM F2.8 VC USD depending on which camera I get (7D MII or 5D MIII).

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    Just be careful with lens choices. Some of the Canon members might be able to define it our more, but Canon does not make all lenses interchangeable between crop sizes lenses and full frame lenses. In some cases the lens just wont fit, or can damage the mirror (from my understanding). I think EF-S has something to do with it, and I hope some Canon user will enlighten you (and me) further.
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    Ausphotography irregular Mark L's Avatar
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    how many times can I get a simple post wrong? grrr

    All Canon lenses will work with APSC body.
    Not all Canon lenses will work on a FF body.
    All Canon lenses will work fine on a 7D Mark II.
    EF-S lenses are not recommended for use on FF body.
    How much do you want to spend?
    Last edited by Mark L; 07-05-2016 at 9:39pm.
    "Enjoy what you can do rather than being frustrated at what you can't." bobt
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    Member Morgo's Avatar
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    What do you want to do with it?
    Also as mentioned whats the budget as there is quite a price difference between bodies and the lenses mentioned.

    - - - Updated - - -

    This could be worth considering

    http://www.eglobaldigitalcameras.com...for-canon.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark L View Post
    How much do you want to spend?
    I'm still in the research process as I'm just starting out, but my budget depends on how much it would cost to achieve what I want.
    I found some photos from Google similar to the types of photos that I want: indoor lighting, taken from a distance and has nice bokeh.

    1. http://goo.gl/NXyYFH
    2. http://goo.gl/OZ1eyf
    3. http://goo.gl/mmUceS


    I've been reading on the 70D, 7DMII and 5DMIII.
    With the lens, I could probably achieve the above for less than $1,500 (e.g. as per the lens mentioned below by Morgo)


    Quote Originally Posted by Morgo View Post
    What do you want to do with it?
    Also as mentioned whats the budget as there is quite a price difference between bodies and the lenses mentioned.

    - - - Updated - - -

    This could be worth considering

    http://www.eglobaldigitalcameras.com...for-canon.html
    That lens looks good to me. Good constant aperture at a reasonable price made for an APSC body.


    Most of my photos will be taken indoors of children playing sports (examples above)
    I like the look of photos taken from a distance rather than close up.
    Last edited by danhendo888; 07-05-2016 at 11:44pm.

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    Ausphotography Regular Brian500au's Avatar
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    Keep it simple.

    First work out your budget for the body and lens - then decide if you want to buy new or a good second hand model. I say this because depending on the model you can buy a camera body second hand for around 60 - 90% of new (even less if you buy a superseded model). Once you have a body, there is a chance this will come with a kit lens. If you are just starting out then I would suggest that is all you need to take the photos you have linked.

    Once you have a couple of months under your belt and you are more aware of your distance to subject (and you have a body) you will be in a better position to call on help to decide which lens best suits your needs.

    Just my 2c worth of advice.
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    Ausphotography Regular Dug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhendo888 View Post
    Hi,

    When deciding on a telephoto lens, should I be focusing on putting a quality APSC lens on an APSC body, and a full frame lens to match a full frame body?
    If I get a full frame lens for an APSC body like the 7D Mark II, how will I know that that combination will deliver sharp results?
    Your wording of this question reminds me of a video I watched recently called "20 Things Most PHOTOGRAPHERS Get WRONG" more precisely item #10 of this list from the Tony and Chelsea Northrup You Tube channel.

    Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsWGkUT5A_Y @ 18:10 minutes.

    The assertion is that "pro" lenses are normally designed for the FF cameras of the range and therefore don't come under the same optical scrutiny as when fitted to an APSC camera that effectively magnifies any deficiencies in the middle area of a FF lens.
    This is not an issue I have heard bought up before as a concern ( more often it is said that a crop camera will remove the soft edge sharpness of an EF lens), but I can see some validity to it in curtain cases.

    They site the 24-70mmL mk1 on a 7D as a case in point. Not having tried this combo I can't say for sure, but it may be the case at its weakest apertures and focal lengths that there are better EFSC lenses that could be used on a crop camera than this one.
    The 15-85mm EF-S would probably be the best place to look there over that range.

    But I doubt any Canon L series prime lens would be an issue, nor any of the more current design issues of Canon L series zooms.
    In the case of the zooms I say this because there was a noticeable step up in sharpness of zooms in the EF range perhaps marked best by the release of the Canon 24-70L mk11 in 2013 which I think even back then was in anticipation of a camera like the 5Ds with its 50 mega pixels this
    would also bring EF lens sharpness under greater scrutiny than previously.

    In fact Canon issued a list of recommended EF lenses for the 5DS and 5DS R cameras, which would make a good starting point also if you have any concerns with matching sharp EF lenses to the 7D mk2

    Here it is:

    Wide angle fixed focal lenses
    TSE17mm f/4L
    TSE24mm f/3.5L II
    EF24mm f/1.4L II USM
    EF24mm f/2.8 IS USM
    EF28mm f/2.8 IS USM
    EF35mm f/2 IS USM

    Telephoto fixed focal length lenses
    EF85mm f/1.2L II USM
    EF85mm f/1.8 USM
    TSE90mm f/2.8
    EF100mm f/2 USM
    EF100mm f/2.8 Macro USM
    EF100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM
    EF135mm f/2.0L USM
    EF200mm f/2L II USM
    EF200mm f/2.8L II USM
    EF300mm f/2.8L IS II USM
    EF400mm f/2.8L IS II USM
    EF400mm f/4 DO IS II USM
    EF500mm f/4L IS II USM
    EF600mm f/4L IS II USM
    EF800mm f/5.6L IS USM

    Standard fixed focal lenses
    EF40mm f/2.8 STM
    EF50mm f/1.2L USM
    EF50mm f/1.4 USM
    EF50mm f/1.8 II
    EF50mm f/2.5 Compact Macro

    Zoom lenses
    EF8-15mm f/4L Fisheye USM
    EF11-24mm f/4L USM
    EF16-35mm f/4L IS USM
    EF24-70mm f/2.8L II USM
    EF24-70mm f/4L IS USM
    EF70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM
    EF70-200mm f/4L USM
    EF70-300mm f/45.6L IS USM
    EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM
    EF200-400mm f/4L IS USM EXTENDER 1.4x
    Last edited by Dug; 08-05-2016 at 3:06am.

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    Ausphotography irregular Mark L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhendo888 View Post
    I found some photos from Google similar to the types of photos that I want: indoor lighting, taken from a distance and has nice bokeh.

    1. http://goo.gl/NXyYFH
    2. http://goo.gl/OZ1eyf
    3. http://goo.gl/mmUceS


    I've been reading on the 70D, 7DMII and 5DMIII.
    With the lens, I could probably achieve the above for less than $1,500 (e.g. as per the lens mentioned below by Morgo)

    That lens looks good to me.
    That first photo was taken with a FF camera at 200mm. You'd need the 5D for that. As you say the Morgo suggested lens would work well on the 7DMII which has higher frames per second should handle higher ISO better than the 70D for what you want. AF would be better. $$$ count though.
    Get the best possible lens and the lesser camera and upgrade that camera later, Or get the better camera so you get a better strike rate and don't loose interest in photography??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian500au View Post
    Keep it simple.

    First work out your budget for the body and lens - then decide if you want to buy new or a good second hand model. I say this because depending on the model you can buy a camera body second hand for around 60 - 90% of new (even less if you buy a superseded model). Once you have a body, there is a chance this will come with a kit lens. If you are just starting out then I would suggest that is all you need to take the photos you have linked.

    Once you have a couple of months under your belt and you are more aware of your distance to subject (and you have a body) you will be in a better position to call on help to decide which lens best suits your needs.

    Just my 2c worth of advice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark L View Post
    That first photo was taken with a FF camera at 200mm. You'd need the 5D for that. As you say the Morgo suggested lens would work well on the 7DMII which has higher frames per second should handle higher ISO better than the 70D for what you want. AF would be better. $$$ count though.
    Get the best possible lens and the lesser camera and upgrade that camera later, Or get the better camera so you get a better strike rate and don't loose interest in photography??
    Ok I've narrowed my choice down between the 6D and the 7D Mark II.
    (Also, why is it that the 6D produces sharper images in low light compared to the 7D Mark II?)

    Yes, people will mention the faster autofocus on the 7D MII which is considered a camera for sports photography. And that they are different cameras for different purposes.
    But I think the 6D is overall a better camera. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
    Note that most of my pictures will be used mainly for our website and facebook.
    Also, if you check out the example photos above, I prefer taking photos of relatively still subjects (e.g. the martial arts students) so it's not like most of my subjects will be running around.

    To be honest, I'd be happy to buy either camera. I think it's pretty close.
    Hopefully, I will end up buying one this week and can finally starting shooting!
    Last edited by danhendo888; 09-05-2016 at 4:22pm.

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    Personally, I would be doing one of two things in your situation; Picking up the 7DII right now. Or waiting for the 6DII. The 6D is very long in the tooth now so the older tech may leave you wanting in some situations.

    For me the only advantage the 6D has over the 7DII is the Full Frame sensor. I know a couple of people who actually went from a 6D to a 7DII say the images they get in all lights are better overall (although slightly lacking on the Dynamic Range front) because of the newer sensor and AF system.

    But as people have said above it is going to come down to what you are shooting. From the images above I would be choosing the 7DII due to its high ISO abilities, but that is all in the eye of the beholder.
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    Still in the Circle of Confusion Cage's Avatar
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    I'm a Nikon shooter so I won't go into specifics.

    However unless the 7D Mk II has some 'can't live without feature' I'd be going for the full frame 6D.

    I just did a quick 'Google' comparing the two and in almost every instance the 6D came out on top. This was just one ... http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compa...___977_836_795 It even topped the 5D MK III.

    Decisions, decisions huh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by spootz01 View Post
    Personally, I would be doing one of two things in your situation; Picking up the 7DII right now. Or waiting for the 6DII. The 6D is very long in the tooth now so the older tech may leave you wanting in some situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cage View Post
    I'm a Nikon shooter so I won't go into specifics.

    However unless the 7D Mk II has some 'can't live without feature' I'd be going for the full frame 6D.
    I am considering these two Nikon cameras too.

    I was looking at the D610 and the D750 but I think the D750 is a bit too expensive for me and that I don't need it yet.

    What are your thoughts on the D610 over the Canons and would these lenses be decent on it?:

    - Nikon 50mm f/1.8G

    And later down the track:

    - Nikon 24-120mm f/4G VR
    - Nikon AF-S 70-200mm f/4G ED VR Lens
    Last edited by danhendo888; 10-05-2016 at 2:29pm.

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    Ausphotography irregular Mark L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhendo888 View Post
    Note that most of my pictures will be used mainly for our website and facebook.
    And what are your website and facebook for? Distributing to people who play and have an interest in what you're posting, or a wider audience somehow. Do you need to spend more $$$s for a limited audience?
    Based on the photos you linked above a FF probably works but since every camera mentioned in this thread will deliver good photos, go to shop and decide what camera feels the best in your hands. Might be that simple.

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    Still in the Circle of Confusion Cage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhendo888 View Post
    I am considering these two Nikon cameras too.

    I was looking at the D610 and the D750 but I think the D750 is a bit too expensive for me and that I don't need it yet.

    What are your thoughts on the D610 over the Canons and would these lenses be decent on it?:

    - Nikon 50mm f/1.8G

    And later down the track:

    - Nikon 24-120mm f/4G VR
    - Nikon AF-S 70-200mm f/4G ED VR Lens
    Good bit of advice from Mark if you haven't actually held any of the cameras in your hand as you must be comfortable with the camera if it is going to work for you. And as Mark also said there is not a great difference in the images produced by any of the aforementioned cameras.

    The Nikon D610 is a good bit of kit (I had the D600) and is probably very comparable with the Canon 6D. The Nikon D750 is the new kid on the block and from what I've read it seems to be top of the heap in crop sensor cameras, particularly with high ISO performance.

    What will make the biggest difference is the lens you decide on. The 50mm f1.8 is a good starter lens but you will quickly find it is neither wide enough nor long enough. I would suggest that something with a f2.8 aperture would stand you in good stead for the type of indoor shooting you will mainly be using it for. Don't think that you have to buy Canon or Nikon lens to get a quality product. I have two Tamron lens, the 24-70mm f2.8 and the 70-200mm f2.8, and they will stand up against anything the big brand names can produce, at about half the price. A good lens should last you two or three camera changes.

    Something like the Tamron 70-200mm f2.8 on either the Canon 6D or the Nikon D610 would put a smile on your face. Yes, I'd go with a full frame job.

    But definitely get into someone like Ted's Cameras, or one of the other big camera retailers, and not only eyeball the gear, but also try it for size and comfort. It's a big decision and if you don't get it right if could be an expensive one.

    Good luck.

    PS: And be aware that there are still some old Tamron 70-200mm f2.8 Macro lens floating around. They are a different beast. Make sure you look at the VC (Vibration Compensation) model.
    Last edited by Cage; 10-05-2016 at 11:59pm.

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    Ausphotography Regular Dug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark L View Post
    And what are your website and facebook for? Distributing to people who play and have an interest in what you're posting, or a wider audience somehow. Do you need to spend more $$$s for a limited audience?
    Based on the photos you linked above a FF probably works but since every camera mentioned in this thread will deliver good photos, go to shop and decide what camera feels the best in your hands. Might be that simple.
    +1


    The D610 will have better numbers in the spec than the 6D. but both will give excellent results.
    Last edited by Dug; 11-05-2016 at 1:22am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark L View Post
    And what are your website and facebook for? Distributing to people who play and have an interest in what you're posting, or a wider audience somehow. Do you need to spend more $$$s for a limited audience?
    Based on the photos you linked above a FF probably works but since every camera mentioned in this thread will deliver good photos, go to shop and decide what camera feels the best in your hands. Might be that simple.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cage View Post
    The Nikon D610 is a good bit of kit (I had the D600) and is probably very comparable with the Canon 6D. The Nikon D750 is the new kid on the block and from what I've read it seems to be top of the heap in crop sensor cameras, particularly with high ISO performance.

    Something like the Tamron 70-200mm f2.8 on either the Canon 6D or the Nikon D610 would put a smile on your face. Yes, I'd go with a full frame job.

    But definitely get into someone like Ted's Cameras, or one of the other big camera retailers, and not only eyeball the gear, but also try it for size and comfort. It's a big decision and if you don't get it right if could be an expensive one.

    Good luck.

    PS: And be aware that there are still some old Tamron 70-200mm f2.8 Macro lens floating around. They are a different beast. Make sure you look at the VC (Vibration Compensation) model.
    Great idea to hold the cameras in person in store. Will try that.
    Agree that the cameras mentioned here will be more than enough for my use and limited audience.
    I guess I just want to ensure that I'm getting value for my money.
    Anyway, I have decided to get the below combination:
    - Nikon D750
    - Tamron SP 70-200mm F/2.8 Di VC USD

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    Still in the Circle of Confusion Cage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhendo888 View Post
    Great idea to hold the cameras in person in store. Will try that.
    Agree that the cameras mentioned here will be more than enough for my use and limited audience.
    I guess I just want to ensure that I'm getting value for my money.
    Anyway, I have decided to get the below combination:
    - Nikon D750
    - Tamron SP 70-200mm F/2.8 Di VC USD
    That combo will blow your mind with the images it is capable of producing.

    And in my previous post I referred to the D750 as a crop sensor model, which of course it isn't, but you knew that. I was thinking of the D500.
    Last edited by Cage; 11-05-2016 at 3:04pm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cage View Post
    That combo will blow your mind with the images it is capable of producing.

    And in my previous post I referred to the D750 as a crop sensor model, which of course it isn't, but you knew that. I was thinking of the D500.

    Actually I was meant to confirm that with you but forgot to ask.

    When it comes to extended warranty, do you purchase it when buying a camera body? Harvey Norman have 'replacement warranty' for the second year for instance ($200) where they will replace the camera if assessed as having a default (instead of repairing it) or give me the cost price of the camera as in store credit.

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    Still in the Circle of Confusion Cage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhendo888 View Post
    Actually I was meant to confirm that with you but forgot to ask.

    When it comes to extended warranty, do you purchase it when buying a camera body? Harvey Norman have 'replacement warranty' for the second year for instance ($200) where they will replace the camera if assessed as having a default (instead of repairing it) or give me the cost price of the camera as in store credit.
    If you buy from an authorised Nikon dealer https://mynikonlife.com.au/buy/nikon...sed-resellers/ and register with My Nikon Life, you will get an extended two year Nikon warranty. FREE !!! Guess the dude at HN forgot to mention that.

    I personally would avoid the grey market sellers. For the two hundred odd bucks you may save up front, for me the peace of the peace of mind that a genuine warranty gives is well worth it. A quick check around showed this mob http://www.cameras.net.au/# the cheapest at $2150.00. And if you are buying a camera + lens, don't be afraid to haggle.

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    Ausphotography irregular Mark L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhendo888 View Post
    When it comes to extended warranty, do you purchase it when buying a camera body? Harvey Norman have 'replacement warranty' for the second year for instance ($200) where they will replace the camera if assessed as having a default (instead of repairing it) or give me the cost price of the camera as in store credit.
    Just forget all that stuff and buy the gear with the manufactures warranty. All that other stuff is just a way for others to get your $$$$. (get lost Gerry. Stop deceiving people.)
    Cameras and lens these days are not prone to problems. A problem will show up before the manufactures warranty runs out.

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