Adobe Camera Raw - V - DNG converter - HELP !

[mongo]

Mongo has a technical problem/question.

He is currently using ACR 6.7.1 in photoshop CS5. It works fine. However, this version is NOT capable of reading and working on D4s NEF files. To read and work on D4s files in RAW, Mongo would have to update to ACR version 8.7.1. which is not a traditional ACR but a DNG converter.

Mongo is otherwise very happy with ACR 6.7.1 and does not want to bugger that up by installing a DNG converter in its place.

Questions:-

1. is it possible to leave the ACR 6.7.1 as a photoshop plug-in and download and use DNG 8.7.1 as an independent stand alone program on his Mac OR will installing DNG 8.7.1 automatically do away with and take the place of ACR 6.7.1 ???

2. do not really understand the difference between ACR and DNG converter - is it critically different ??

any help would be greatly appreciated

[Mark L]

No expert here but.
My understanding is that the DNG converter is stand alone (if what you are referring to is not stand alone, find Adobes converter that is stand alone). It converts your NEF files to DNG. You then open the DNG in ACR.

[tandeejay]

DNG converter is stand alone and will not mess with your ACR in CS5. I have the same issue with my D5500... ACR in CS5 doesn't read my NEF files. The latest DNG converter does read my D5500 files and converts them to DNG format which ACR in CS5 can then read. (No update to ACR in CS5 required for this to work...)

[mongo]

DNG converter is stand alone and will not mess with your ACR in CS5. I have the same issue with my D5500... ACR in CS5 doesn't read my NEF files. The latest DNG converter does read my D5500 files and converts them to DNG format which ACR in CS5 can then read. (No update to ACR in CS5 required for this to work...)

Thanks John. So, if Mongo downloads and installs the DNG converter it will not overwrite the current ACR plug-in in CS5 and be a true stand alone program ??

[tandeejay]

Thanks John. So, if Mongo downloads and installs the DNG converter it will not overwrite the current ACR plug-in in CS5 and be a true stand alone program ??

That's correct DNG converter only converts your raw to a format that ACR plugin can read. ACR plugin continues to work as normal. It still cannot open your NEF files but is happy to open the DNG files created by DNG converter . DNG converter has no functionality other than converting your raw files into something ACR can use . DNG converter is pretty much useless without ACR

[mongo]

big thanks John. Installed it and it works just as you said.

[tandeejay]

Good to hear. Glad to help.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[arthurking83]

Mango.
Be aware of some limitations WRT DNG via Adobe's converter.
it can lose/concatenate/distort some exif/metadata from the raw file into the resultant DNG file.

Whether this data is important to you is the question only you can answer tho.
The solution is simple tho, and doesn't mean that converting to DNG isn't a viable option.
All you should do to be sure that the metadata isn't completely lost is to either keep the raw file for future reference, or convert to a DNG file type that contains the RAW file within the DNG container.

Of course this all means that you need more space, either for the DNG+raw files, or the very large DNG file with raw file contained within.

As a reference to space considerations:
DNG's without internally contained raw file usually turned out to be roughly the same sizes as the original raws.
DNG with raw file contained are close enough to double the original raw file. Some just over double(a meg or two) some just under double by the same amount. There was no consistent pattern to file sizes.

Article on PhotographyLife

It's bit of a long read, but worth it in understanding some of the point made(not all tho).

As one example of a point made in the article is:

When dealing with uncompressed RAW files, DNG certainly does save a lot of space by converting huge uncompressed RAW files to losslessly-compressed RAW files. This alone can result in 50% or more in space savings.

I really fail to see how this is relevant!
The guy compares uncompressed raw file with the 'savings' made when compressing your DNG files! .. err.... Duh!
What I fail to understand tho is he's trying to save space on the computer(or whatever type .. not important) where space is infintetly much cheaper than say where space saving is more expensive .. like on a camera card!
media cards are priced at increasing rates in a more directly proportional sense WRT space. As an example: a 16G card costs $10 and 32G card cost $20 by comparison(or roughly thereabouts).
Computer storage HDD's cost far less to upsize by way of comparison! as an example: a 1Tb drive may cost $70, whereas a 2tb drive $80 and a 3Tb drive $90!
You'd be mad to order a 1tb drive in that situation.

Note that when I refer to storage HDDs, I refer to mechanical drives which offer the cheapest size/$ ratio, and not to SSDs which cost way too much as a 'storage' option.

So the pro vs con aspect of DNG vs raw the writer makes seems to be irrelevant in the way he makes it. Where you want the storage saving would be in the camera, on the card.
Of course some cameras don't offer lossless compressed raw formats .. but in your case Nikon does. And I'm sure Canon does too.

[mongo]

Thanks Arthur - Mongo was hoping you would see this cry for help and give your advice.

The Data is not a big issue for Mongo. Did one as a sample and the final tiff resulting (the format Mongo usually ends up storing the edited file) has sufficient info on it (including copyright) to satisfy Mongo's needs.

[Mark L]

Be aware of some limitations WRT DNG via Adobe's converter.
it can lose/concatenate/distort some exif/metadata from the raw file into the resultant DNG file.

For others info sake, I never found that to be the case with Canons CR2 files.

[John King]

For others info sake, I never found that to be the case with Canons CR2 files.

Nor I with Olympus .ORF files.

[J.davis]

Mongo, my PS uses ACR 9.4, can yours not update to this version of ACR?

[arthurking83]

For others info sake, I never found that to be the case with Canons CR2 files.

Nor I with Olympus .ORF files.

Actually! .. you guys are right!

Last time I did the conversions I did use Lr to play with the files and then saved them of course.
I didn't take into account that Lr loses a lot of metadata when it saves it's files.

FWIW; I don't use DNG myself, only testing stuff.

BORING tedious blathering hot air ramblings:
Just did another batch of test images, and while it does drop some metadata(and add some of it's own) the metadata it does delete isn't vital to the image.
Important parts like makernotes are all basically intact. For some reason(on D800 files at least) it does seem to delete some pixel data but this data isn't part of the pixel data for the actual image!

eg. D800 images are 7360x4912 of actual image area .. but the actual pixels count is more than that in the raw raw file. If you view the raw exif data the pixel dimensions are always more than the image size. Where the NEF full dimensions are 7424x4924, the DNG is 7378x4924 .. so the NEF has a 36.6Mp, and the DNG 36.3Mp.
Those pixel differences are totally unimportant. No image data is lost. This is just to point out that there are many minor differences in the metadata .. but mostly all intact.
What it does drop tho is the embedded ICC profile data, which could be important in a sense.
I suspect that in the conversion to DNG, as it's creating it's own new 'raw' file type, it must surely create it's own embedded preview files too.
In the NEF( I'm using) the sRGB profile choice is Nikon's own sRGB type .. it may or may not be to the exact same standard as the regular ICC version sRGB IEC 61966-2-1:1999 (see discussions in the colour profile thread if this is important to you .. it's most likely not!).
In the ICC section of the NEF's metadata, it not only displays the colour profile set, it also lists the chromacity mappings as well.


Important SUMMARY stuff that probably helps:
So, for Mongo's sake, if you have a preference for an easier to work with raw format that is easier to manage, DNG is definitely a good option for you.
All my 90-ish Meg NEFs converted into 40-ish Meg DNGs.
I used DNG converter v9.5(that's what I downloaded way back then .. dunno what the latest is tho).

A handy bit of advice would be to still use it with caution tho!
I did a small batch lot this morning of only 6 or 8 images, in a specific folder and it (DNG 9.5) threw out an error that it "couldn't parse" two particular files of the lot.
No reason given as to what's in those two particular NEF files that DNG9.5 can't convert.
I tried a mix of files with not much embedded data(keywords, geo tags, etc) and files with CNX2 edited info(which means that the edit info created is saved into the NEF!!).
The CNX edited files were DNGed back to the original captured state(ie. not edited).

[mongo]

Mongo, my PS uses ACR 9.4, can yours not update to this version of ACR?

John, Mongo has PS CS5 and from what Mongo can see, ACR 6.7.1 is the highest version that will go on this version of CS5. It looked to Mongo that many of the later versions of ACR were actually DNG converters.

If you are using PS CS5 or earlier and can still use ACR 9.4, Mongo would love to know how to achieve that. Mongo is also on a Mac. Can you please confirm that John ?

[agb]

John, Mongo has PS CS5 and from what Mongo can see, ACR 6.7.1 is the highest version that will go on this version of CS5. It looked to Mongo that many of the later versions of ACR were actually DNG converters.

If you are using PS CS5 or earlier and can still use ACR 9.4, Mongo would love to know how to achieve that. Mongo is also on a Mac. Can you please confirm that John ?

Mongo, DP review says that ACR 6.7.1 was the last update for CS5.

[Warbler]

No, mongo, you are correct. CS5 will not run later versions of ACR. Adobe did not update older versions once they released a new version of CS. CS6 was the exception because Adobe was flogging its CC version and agreed to upgrade versions of ACR compatible with CS6. From memory I think they have now done their last upgrade to ACR for CS6. From now on, if you want the latest, then you'll have to go to the subscription-only CC.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, a little off-topic, but did those on CC get a notification of an increase in the subscription price? I have a subscription with Adobe for PDF Converter which converts PDF documents to Word or Excel files. Adobe wrote to me advising me that my subscription cost would increase because of changes in the exchange rate for the Aussie Dollar. Might be a nasty surprise for CC subscribers. I still run CS6 which runs ACR9.1.1.

[agb]

Those on subscription for CC have been advised that as from May 1 the price will increase from $9.99 to $11.99 for new subscriptions and to the new price from your renewal date after May 1.

[Warbler]

^20% increase. Nice if you can get it.

[John King]

No, mongo, you are correct. CS5 will not run later versions of ACR. Adobe did not update older versions once they released a new version of CS. CS6 was the exception because Adobe was flogging its CC version and agreed to upgrade versions of ACR compatible with CS6. From memory I think they have now done their last upgrade to ACR for CS6. From now on, if you want the latest, then you'll have to go to the subscription-only CC.

I own two two licence versions of CS - i.e. two licences each for CS5 and CS6 Premium.

When these no longer support the cameras that I have changed to, Adobe will not get another cent of my money ...
Capture One Pro is looking good ATM ...

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, a little off-topic, but did those on CC get a notification of an increase in the subscription price? I have a subscription with Adobe for PDF Converter which converts PDF documents to Word or Excel files. Adobe wrote to me advising me that my subscription cost would increase because of changes in the exchange rate for the Aussie Dollar. Might be a nasty surprise for CC subscribers. I still run CS6 which runs ACR9.1.1.

Adobe is like MS, greedy and rapacious for what I consider to be second-rate products. Not that anyone else is making better products, but that does not excuse their downright sloppiness and business behaviour in either case IMNSHO.

[ameerat42]

I'm in the steam ages with free CS2
And except I don't want to pay for the Foxit Phantom equiv of
Adobe PDF CONverter, I use the free Foxit Reader and Printer.

Have a look at them here, and AVAIL yourself of the 1 month free
Phantom trial with Foxit Reader. It reverts to Reader after the trial.

Foxit Reader and Phantom in this cave.

I have to FANK someone for putting me onto this a few years ago. Can't remember if it was Kym or I @ M