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Fair enoughOriginally Posted by Cricket
I also agree with your last paragraph 100% but did not mention that in my post - my apologies.
i suppose my whole point is we need to walk a little in someone's else's shoes. Races are not bad - individual people are bad, but we should not lump everybody into the same bucket.
www.kjbphotography.com.au
1DxII, EOS R, 200-400 f4L Ext, 100-400 f4.5-5.6L II, 70-200 F4IS, 24-70 F2.8 II, 16-35 F4IS
Surely that's why they're looking elsewhere, Matt
CC, Image editing OK.
SETI doesn't cost billions, and space probes (which are expensive) aren't primarily aimed at finding extraterrestrial life.I still find it funny that we are wasting billions of dollars with the pointless SETI program and various space probes and planetary missions to find signs of intelligent life elsewhere when we seem have trouble finding intelligent life here on earth.
It would be nice if we treated people as people first then based on their actual nature maybe look further into other aspects of their lives.
In the bike riding incident, the son moved over to give way and the father made him move back, in the time taken to observe that the bike rider could have stopped and let all pedestrians proceed - I used to live very near Merri Creek and that is always a possibility for a careful cyclist!
Most people are just the same as you or any other person but due to the behaviour of some of the people of their religion/appearance/colour they are all placed into a particular category which inspires fear of the unknown. Some radical/anarchistic/power hungry people who wish to use that fear to cause mayhem and discord all of which also hurts people of that same religion/appearance/colour as much as those they choose to malign. It is too easy to give into the fear and categorise all members of a particular group into the "fearsome ones" but that is not the actuality. However it means that the myth is perpetuated and continues to create divides. Look at the attitudes towards Australian Aborigines even today after over a century of abuse, people of Asian appearance, historical persecution of Jews, current persecution of Arabs, "boat people", refugees in all countries, Somalis, etc etc most of based on nothing but fear of the unknown or losing jobs or other fears etc.
I have read no muslim posts requesting that catholic nuns stop wearing habits or priests collars, no muslims requesting non observance of christian beliefs or celebrations or closures of retreats, convents or monasteries but plenty of lies that they have by those wishing to cause more fear and hatred.
My partner is currently in hospital and he has had Egyptian, Chinese, Sri Lankan, Indian, African, UK English, Caucasian Australian, Hijab wearing Arabian (among other nationality) Doctors and Nurses and all have treated him with respect and have helped with his condition. They show as much care for him as they do every other patient. It is a sad world when we all cannot do the same to other people rather than listening to the poison and lies meant to cause division and fear.
I rode that trail for 20 years, always with the respect for the pedestrians. I always gave pedestrians, who I came up from behind plenty of warning and I slowed down when passing. It is not a shared path, pedestrian who came towards me allways with out fall would move to one side and let me pass. I am not saying they moved off the path, just to one side. If, as was suggested, I ride at speed where I could stop when approached by a pedestrian, it would take me many hours to reach home. Besides I would slow when approached by an on coming pedestrian, As always they would move aside. In this instance I did slow but I was not expecting to have no where to go at the last moment. Why the hell should I stop. It was a deliberate act on the fathers side to cause me to run off the track. and when I did so, he did not give a rats, if I was injured. Any civil minded person would go to the aid of an injured person. Why am I in the wrong?, because I ride a bike. MY LAST WORDS ON THE SUBJECT
I have been taking photos for 50 years. I am now trying to get into Photography
But that could have been anyone from any religion or race. Plenty of 'Aussies' think doing stuff like that to cyclists is funny. Making the leap from what one person does, to everyone from that religion or race being the same, is a leap that should not be made. Martin Bryant is a white christian mass murderer, but we do not see, even people who were there when it happened, making the assumption that all blonde, surfie looking, white christians should be feared and avoided.
I am an Athiest, but it is not my fault. It is just the way god made me!
"It is one thing to make a picture of what a person looks like, it is another thing to make a portrait of who they are" - Paul Caponigro
Constructive Critique of my photographs is always appreciated
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RICK
My Photography
Mass murder is a little different to not allowing a cyclist room on a bike path don't you think? I didn't see any reports that Bryant was yelling "God is Great!" as he shot and killed all those people either. In fact it was reported that he had expressed the sentiment that today he was going to Isle of the Dead to kill WASPs. White Anglo-Saxon Professionals to those who don't know the expression. In any case, we're a long way from the original post about people of one religion not having to stand or sing the Australian National Anthem, don't you think?
All conversations evolve! You missed my point. That some are defining a whole group based on the actions of one or a few. And for some reason religion seems to be the brunt of that a fair bit. It is interesting to watch a conversation where photographers are being demeaned or belittled cause of the action of one photographer. We all stand up for 'our rights' and say things like 'yes he was bad, but not all photographers are', yet when it is the other way round, some of us will happily join the bandwagon.
And.. just cause someone yells 'God/Allah is great' does not make them a bad person!
Last edited by ricktas; 07-11-2015 at 9:51am.
Agree that blaming a whole religion based on one incident is not the way to go. Thinking there might be an issue with it though, based on all the acts committed in its name is probably not such a long stretch though.
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegr...ation_unknown/
Threadstarter
Thank you Warbler.
I started this thread because I naively thought that people who fled their homeland because of political, religious, or any other form of intolerance, would be just a little bit keen to embrace the culture, life style, and rules, of their adopted homeland.
I was also under the misapprehension that they would want to blend in with the locals, be part of the community, and not carry on with the same crap that they had run away from.
Silly me to think that the new arrivals would want to live in harmony with the existing populace and not rock the bloody boat?
Cheers
Kev
Nikon D810: D600 (Astro Modded): D7200 and 'stuff', lots of 'stuff'
Considering Mohammed is a name that is equivalent to our John, Matthew, Mark, Luke then I wonder if we really delved into the stats, how many of those names appear in the history books associated with similar events?
Martin John Bryant
John Wayne Gacey
John Bunting (snow town)
It is not hard to find them
Last edited by ricktas; 07-11-2015 at 10:22am.
Don't forget
Mohammed Manson.
Mohammed [that creep hopefully languishing (in the true sense) in a Tasmanian prison and who shall remain nameless],
Mohammed [that Norwegian worthy of even greater despising in his own country's institution]
A bit further back in history there were also:
Mohammed Stalin (though he preferred the Slavic version: "Comrade".
Mohammed Hitler (apparently he liked being called "Heil".
Mohammed Pot
Mohammed Amin.
...
...
Yeah, it's amazing that in a story of Mohammeds everyone is called Mohammed!
Now, if you think I'm being an apologist, consider it true: but only for some perspective.
Yes, you're right Rick. I think Steyn's original article was a piece of sarcasm and intended as an exaggeration. Everyone should know that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were Apostles and therefore Christian names. Hell everyone used to have Christianames in this country before they had Firstnames....
The Spanish even name their children Jesus. I haven't yet seen anyone name their children God, but I'm sure that will happen soon enough. The point though is that Christians don't name their children Muhammed and vice-versa. Mass murderers called John usually don't yell "God is great" in the midst of their dirty deeds. See! Now I'm way off topic too.
But most of them do, Cage. They join in with the community, don't make a fuss and fall off the radar. It's the minority who don't care about fitting in who make all the noise. Though having said that, you can't expect immigrants to abandon all the values and traditions they were brought up with. So even if they make a genuine effort to fit in, there's still potential for friction.
I dont see SMH write and article about all the people who don't stand at the AFL when they play the national anthem during the Anzac day match nor the grand final. Suppose that will not really be interesting as a read as it involves Aussies.
I have to admit when i was a kid at school half the kids did not give a dam about the National anthem and only stood there during assembly else we would get the strap. It wasn't until i left school I realized the second line of the first verse was not "PUT HER IN A DUNNY AND PULL THE CHAIN".
Don't equate for a minute my attitude towards our national anthem when I was a kid to how patriotic I feel when it comes to the sacrifice some people have made to better this country.
SMH made a mountain out of a mole hill in order to sell papers - and you fell for it.
Last edited by Brian500au; 07-11-2015 at 3:26pm.
It sure did!
But I think you've got the words wrong, Kel.
It goes: "Australians all led ostriches...", so I've been told, but you'd expect emus.
Threadstarter
I didn't fall for anything, Mate !
I merely directed attention to a newspaper article that reported on the happenings at a meeting where the main speaker stated that Muslim children should not have to sing the National Anthem at school. This was nothing to do with an individuals freedom of choice, but rather a suggestion that as an ethnic group, they didn't need to show respect for their adopted country's Anthem.
If you don't believe that statement is encouraging separatism, just keep your head firmly stuck in the sand.
Last edited by Cage; 07-11-2015 at 5:49pm.
With all due respect that statement is one of thousands of statements made everyday over social media. I am simply saying by reporting on it encourages "separatism". This would have been a non event if not for the SMH. Of course I agree there are radicals in society encouraging young individuals to perform violent acts. Once again by reporting it in the SMH really does not solve problems - if anything it opens up a discussion that encourages this type of behavior - we bring out the haters which fuels and justifies the extremists. These people are extremists hiding behind a veil of their own version of religion. It is not exclusive to Muslims, and the sects of Jonestown and Wacol support this argument. Some of the most barbaric acts in the world today are committed by Christians against Christians.
It is a difficult dilemma - where do we suppress the right to free speech. We are lucky in Australia we almost have the some of the most liberal laws in the world when it comes to freedom of speech. In Singapore you cannot criticize a democratically elected government and in Thailand one spoken or written word criticizing the royal family will see you do a jail term.
The "you" in my statement was not directed at "you" personally but more a general "you".
Just to clarify. Australia does NOT have Free Speech legislation. That would be the USA.
As for my head in the sand I promise you I am far from it. I am very open minded and listen to all sides of the discussion. I have worked and traveled extensively in the past ten years, working amongst many different cultures and religions. I have come to conclusion the world is mostly filled with people the same as you and me. They want their children to grow up in a safe environment, and given more opportunity than they were afforded themselves. We all bleed the same color, and the more tolerance we exhibit can only lead to a better place for all of us.
Last edited by ricktas; 07-11-2015 at 6:43pm.
Why would you be advocating suppression of free speech? I mean, it wouldn't be free then, would it?
Last edited by Warbler; 07-11-2015 at 6:31pm.
What i mean is if we agree on freedom of speech then we need to accept not everything said is going to be a positive speech. We also give the radicals the right to spew the garbage they do.
The best thing we can do to not encourage this is to not give them any publicity when the do.
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