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Thread: Very disturbing article in the SMH today

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    Still in the Circle of Confusion Cage's Avatar
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    Very disturbing article in the SMH today

    I'm not going to comment, other than to say that I was aghast when I read it.

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/musli...01-gknwy9.html
    Last edited by Cage; 01-11-2015 at 4:32pm.
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    It's all about the Light!
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    Warning: This is a very emotive off-topic subject, please be very careful in what you post
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    Cheers Kym,

    I didn't intend to start a discussion, merely to create an awareness.

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    My view is that the problem is the islamic ideology and requires two things for genuine peaceful integration

    a) an islamic reformation http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/...-needs/6426788

    b) a very active stand for human rights by moderate muslims i.e. ...

    peace.jpg

    Sadly neither are likely in the next 100 years; thus things will get MUCH more ugly and violent.

    My wife cousin lives in a small town in Germany, we talk weekly.
    The immigrant situation is having a huge local impact and there will be an extreme anti-islam reaction that will manfest hugely in the next 24 months.

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    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    A report of a few words from a group with unorthodox views. It depends on the traction it can garner, what fear and dissension
    it sows. This may not be much.

    There are many groups with socially unorthodox views. To me they are equally repellent for their avowed lack of broad-mindedness.

    In addition, many self-styled moderate governments in the world enact laws which should have no go at all.

    One could continue recounting a panoply of woes, but...

    (And, are you scared of spiders and snakes?)
    CC, Image editing OK.

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    Still in the Circle of Confusion
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    I may be somewhat naive in my thinking, but I would hope that when people come to this country, either legitimately or not, they would have some intent to become members of our community, and to embrace the Australian way of life.

    To state that their children should not have to sing the Australian anthem, for whatever reason, does not bode well for their desire to assimilate into our society.

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    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    Nothing to do with any "naivity" I reckon. You always get someone who doesn't like something.
    (For instance, I can't stand coriander)

    This story, after all, is of "storm in a teacup" proportions. It was the same yesterday and will be the same tomorrow.
    It was just reported today. I heard a worse one: they're talking of raising the GST to 15%

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    can't remember Tannin's Avatar
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    So people who despise the disgraceful worst-in-world dirge some moron picked to be our national anthem, and who refuse point-blank to stand for it, sing it, or respect it in any way are Muslims. I never knew that. I always thought I was an atheist. Learn something every day.

    PS: Born in Australia, been here since a great-something grandfather was transported to Tasmania. Love the place, always have. Travel endlessly to see more of it. And I am far too proud of this country and its history to ever sing that awful song. If we can't have a decent one, better to do without.
    Last edited by Tannin; 01-11-2015 at 8:18pm.
    Tony

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    Ausphotography irregular Mark L's Avatar
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    Have never sung the national anthem since way back in the old school days when I was forced to. Singing that song doesn't make my an Ozzie.
    Is this the part of the article you found disturbing,
    "In July, it became public knowledge a three-year-old was on Britain's terrorism radar."
    Go figure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ameerat42 View Post
    they're talking of raising the GST to 15%
    http://www.news.com.au/national/brea...-1227589934195
    TREASURER Scott Morrison has described reports that the government is considering a hike in the GST as "speculative" but economists and tax practitioners say it's an idea worth pursuing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tannin View Post
    So people who despise the disgraceful worst-in-world dirge some moron picked to be our national anthem, and who refuse point-blank to stand for it, sing it, or respect it in any way are Muslims. I never knew that. I always thought I was an atheist. Learn something every day.
    Here's today's lesson ....

    The 1977 plebiscite

    Another poll to select a tune for a national song was conducted in May 1977. Fuelled by debate in 1976 over an appropriate song to represent Australia at the Montreal Olympic Games, the Fraser government requested the Australian Electoral Office hold a direct national poll in conjunction with a set of constitutional referenda. Over 7 million of the 8.4 million people on the electoral roll chose to vote. Again, Advance Australia Fair was the preferred song, followed by Waltzing Matilda, God Save the Queen and Song of Australia.

    Even after the plebiscite, a further seven years and a change of government passed before Advance Australia Fair was proclaimed as Australia's national anthem
    Unless I'm reading this wrongly, our anthem was chosen by the people.

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    can't remember Tannin's Avatar
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    Your anthem maybe. I will never stoop to standing up for that awful dirge. If there is a worse excuse for a national anthem somewhere in the world, I haven't heard it yet. (But I bet there is - the French one in magnificent; from there it's all downhill.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K1q9Ntcr5g

    Or you may prefer this version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM-E2H1ChJM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark L View Post
    Have never sung the national anthem since way back in the old school days when I was forced to. Singing that song doesn't make my an Ozzie.
    And refusing to sing it because it doesn't fit in with their ideological values and religious beliefs sure as hell won't make them Aussies either. If they don't like the Australian ideology they could always go back to whence they came, and I concur that most escaped from some pretty horrific situations.

    Surely there has to be more of an attempt to embrace the culture and way of life of a country that has offered asylum, and not try to force Australia to adopt the beliefs of a culture that they have fled from.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tannin View Post
    Your anthem maybe. I will never stoop to standing up for that awful dirge. If there is a worse excuse for a national anthem somewhere in the world, I haven't heard it yet. (But I bet there is - the French one in magnificent; from there it's all downhill.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K1q9Ntcr5g

    Or you may prefer this version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM-E2H1ChJM
    Tannin, Mate, it is your anthem too, love it or hate it.

    Ain't democracy wonderful ? You can express disdain for our national song and not get locked up.

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    Standing for the National Anthem is not about respecting the tune. It's is about respecting your fellow countrymen.

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    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    Succinct, Warbs.

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    Same as the Australian Flag. Some like it some don't, but it's our flag.
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    Way Down Yonder in the Paw Paw Patch jim's Avatar
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    Though I'm a New Zealander and always will be, I sing the Australian anthem where appropriate because not to do so would be a very weird and hostile stance to take against the country where I've lived for 28 years. Anyway, awful song though it is it's nothing like as tedious as our national dirge.

    Having said that I'm not sure what you achieve by forcing people to sing it if they don't want to.

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    Ausphotography Regular Hawthy's Avatar
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    The NZ anthem is actually one of my favourites. Quite moving and the two languages adds to its appeal. Now, if we can just get rid of the haka...
    Warbler has it right. It is about respect. And respect is a gift that gives as much to the giver as the receiver. The world could do with a bit more respect.
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    Who let the rabble in? Lance B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark L View Post
    "In July, it became public knowledge a three-year-old was on Britain's terrorism radar."
    Go figure.
    I think the issue here isn't that the British Authorities would ever think a 3 year old will be a terrorist at that age, but that this 3 year old is in a situation where he/she is under the influence of brain washing by extremist Muslim leaders and may end up as a terrorist. I do not find that to be surprising that the extremist Muslims would groom a child for future terrorist activities and thus mean that the authorities would need to keep a waych on him/her.
    Last edited by Lance B; 02-11-2015 at 8:53pm.

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    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
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    My view is that the problem isn't about being Australian, or a migrant .. recent or distant.

    My actual hope one day is that someone somewhere will stop this idiotic regional nonsense and change the public dialogue to where it should be .. on a global scale.

    I'm Aussie, and I just happen to live in this part of the world, yet I could have just as easily been a Zimbabwean living 18,000 klms away.

    I still live on the same planet and just because circumstances lead to my being here, makes no difference in the overall scheme of things.

    National anthems do nothing for healing animosities between people that live in different regions .. and I reckon they should all be banned .. even the magnificent Gallic ones!

    We can't live in harmony on this rock in the middle of nowhere, in a part of no mans land (in galactic terms), and yet there's this mad rush to discover new distant planets in places that we can't even see, let along get too.
    And for what ... to argue and ridicule some other species of life form? .. to go to war with them too?
    it's so funny sit back and watch it all .. here we are all basically trying to kill each other's race off in some way, whether literally or surreptitiously through a fixation of integration, yet on the other hand billions spent trying to look for more targets in places we can't reach.

    My parents were post war immigrants, which makes me a second gen immigrant. One thing I know (from direct first hand experience) is that when something is forced onto you, your reaction is to rebel.
    My parents had their customs, and cultural heritage, which has long since faded to a very high degree.
    None of my second gen immigrant family/friends/acquaintances have followed in their parent's footsteps and maintained those cultural heritage traits.
    Now the third gen migrant's offspring(eg. my kids) have completely lost touch with any of those original cultural nuances .. and the fact that 'olives and fetta cheese' as a Greek thing is lost on them. They just know that it exists and eat it by the tons loads .. not that if it weren't for the old timer Greeks .. Aussies wouldn't know what those terms meant.
    They have no interest in the cultural links and history .. all they want is for it to exist. They don't care on how Olives are made(to be edible .. unless you want to get sick quickly).
    Their lack of interest in the stories I've told them, about entire weekends spent picking olives and then cutting them and drowning them in some salty water goop .. ask them where olives come from and they know it's the shop!
    Same with church(the real cultural heritage dissapearing very fast!).
    They had their first ever experience in a Greek church a couple of weeks ago, my mother passed away. 15 years without ever setting foot in a church! they were actually less bored than I was too(embarrassingly).
    Once my father goes, they won't ever experience a Greek church ever again, and what was very obvious on that day was the lack of any young children at the church.
    They had a couple of cousins to play with(which relieved their boredom a bit) .. but the old days of all of us kids being there at the same time .. gone!
    Because back in the day, the first gen migrants all followed their culture and went to church. This situation slowly declined over the years and they only went to church on certain days(eg. Easter), then they got too old for that too .. and then 30-40 year later .. what was once a 'culture' was now only something to describe in stories.

    The real Aussie is the one that still goes to church on Sunday .. just as they did up to about the 40's, 50's or 60's .. how many do that now? .. and more so how many do that in the icon of Aussidom .. the good old ute! .. wasn't that what it was invented for?

    So in the same way that I've been affected by cultural indifference, the same effect will eventually come to the recent load of migrants(and that includes these anthem avoiding muslims) .. at some point the older first gen migrants will have forced their cultural ways onto their children to the point that those second gen will rebel against it. More so to a large degree, rather than completely.
    But their offspring will almost certainly not have any interest in the old cultural ways ... eventually.
    They don't need to be assimilated, they will blend in at their own pace and things will eventually settle and the path will smooth itself out.

    I'm like Tony .. anthem agnostic .. the only word I know in that song is Australians .. and then I can't make out if it's supposed to be .... all let us read Joyce ... who's Joyce, did she write a good book(good enough to read so as to be sung about?).
    Dunno .. doesn't make sense why you'd sing songs about reading books.
    Actually, maybe Joyce is the surname .. only just clicked!

    Anyhow .. priorities are all wrong .. we need to stop this incessant us and them ideology, and look at the issue from an us .... ALL of us perspective.
    Until then many more lives will be wasted due to regional selfishness.
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