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Thread: D7100 issue. Need advice

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    Member LittleSparrow's Avatar
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    D7100 issue. Need advice

    So, I've had my D7100 for about a month or so now. I'm really noticing how it's brain seems to be a slower thinker. What I mean by this is that i'm finding that as I take photos, the camera sometimes wont shot if im shooting too fast for it. Like example. I was trying to capture my two year old and she was moving around heap so I was taking a photo fairly quickly one after the other, but then it started to do nothing when I hold the shutter button down and so I end up missing a heap of shots before it 'catches up' and starts taking photos again. I'm guessing the problem is that it's trying to process the photos as the green light stays on for ages and then turns off. I also can't view the photos on the screen until it finished thinking too. I never had this problem with my D3100! I tried switching lens to see if it helped but it didn't. It does this in single and continuous modes.

    Does anyone know why its being so slow and how can change/fix it?

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    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    LS.
    READ ALL ABOUT IT! on this page.
    CC, Image editing OK.

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    So basically unless I shoot in jpeg it's not going to keep up with me because the buffer capacity is limited. I always shot in RAW!

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    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    Yep. No different from lots of other cameras AFAICT. Work within its limitations:
    1. Yes. Shoot jpeg in certain situations.
    2. Tailor your raw shooting method (using the CHi option).

    It says there that other models ["perform better"].
    Last edited by ameerat42; 27-08-2015 at 9:34am.

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    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
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    If you aren't too pedantic about absolute processing ability, then you could change the raw bit rate and compression scheme to something lower too.

    Obviously you are reaching the camera's internal buffer limits.
    Buffer limits aren't about how many images you can fit in, it's just like you're memory card or computer's hard drive(s) .. it's all about space in bytes(in this case MB's)

    So lets say as an example, you shoot in uncompressed NEF format and 14bit. And lets say each NEF is about 30MB each. (these are all arbitrary figures .. not actual ones!)
    Now lets say the buffer on the D7100 is 300MB.

    If you shot 10 NEF exposures at the above settings, you obviously can only fit 10 NEF files onto that 300MB memory space in the camera(buffer).
    Of course it's not that simple, as the camera is writing to the card at the same time as you are shooting too!(and this is also important!)

    So you can do a few things, some easier than others.

    You can set the camera to shoot NEF files at 12bit. If this saves 10-20% of each files space requirements, then your 30MB NEF files are now only 24-27MB each.
    While it's not a lot, it's at least smaller.
    You can also switch the compression scheme in the way the NEF is saved on the card too.
    I think from default, the D7100 is set to compressed format, but not lossy. You could probably halve the file sizes by using lossy compression as well as 12bit raw capture.

    NOTE!! tho
    Doing this is not without consequences tho.
    That is, while you can lighten the individual file sizes, which allows both more file per memory space, but also buffer clearance speeds .. in some situations that loss of data in each file can have consequences in post production if you do some/any/heavy later on.

    ALSO!!!
    The other key words I introduced earlier are buffer clearance rates.
    While there is an absolute limit as to how you can help this, in general a faster card is helpful in some way.

    If you let us know what type of SD card you are using .. exactly! .. we could offer further assistance.
    You may have a card that is a bit slow for the camera to clear the buffer quickly enough.
    So your other option to help with this issue is that you could obviously get a faster card.
    But again, getting successively faster cards doesn't always mean even faster buffer clearance tho. The camera has a limited internal speed setting.
    The hard bit to know is how fast a card is as fast as the camera can efficiently use.

    So let us know which SD card brand and model you have .. if you have multiple cards ... again let us know.
    If you don't mind paying about $60 to $100 or so, we could assist with some options.

    Finally, the reason your D3100 didn't hit the buffer is because it couldn't shoot at 7 frame per second or so.
    D7100 can .. so you must be shooting at the fastest frame rate speed. While it's handy to have this ability, do you really need it.
    ie. is 4 or 5 frames per second enough instead. So altering your shooting style can also help.

    If you are interested in the image quality settings for NEF shooting mode, you want to look into the:

    Shooting menu(camera icon)
    * scroll down to the menu item called: NEF recording type
    * once in there, the two options will be type - compression lossless compressed says it doesn't lose data, but it does(a wee bit), compressed obviously loses some data.
    other option is for bit depth.
    The lower 12bit setting gives smaller file sizes, but again loses some data in the file, the higher 14 bit allows more data.

    It's been debated for a long while now if we humans can actually see this lost data. This isn't the point(always). If you hardly process or do minimal processing you lost nothing.
    If you're a hard core type and want to keep all possible data for the possibilities into the future, then having captured more data to begin with gives greater flexibility in the future(and now of course).

    Without knowing all the current facts, my guess is that your SD card is almost certainly not up to speed .. so spend a few $'s on a decent one to maximise how fast the D7100 can shoot!
    If you need advice on a new card .. just holler again.
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    Member wayn0i's Avatar
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    Nice work arthurking83 you've nailed that one


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    Wayne

    Nikon D610, Samyang 24mm 1.4, Tamron 24-70 2.8, Nikkor 50mm 1.4G, Nikkor 70-300mm 4.5, Manfrotto & MeFOTO tripods, Ninja pano head & LEE filters


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    Thank you arthurking83! That info is so helpful. My memory cards are probably on the slow side as they were just cheap. I would most definitely be happy to spend more if it means getting more from my camera.
    Current memory cards are.... Verbatim SDHC Class A 8gb and Sandisk SDHC I 8gb
    Would love some memory card recommendations!!

    I do like to do a lot of post processing. Im a photoshop addict so spend hours playing with my photos. But since I just shot for myself I will try making some adjustments in the camera and see how it goes.
    Last edited by LittleSparrow; 28-08-2015 at 5:29pm.

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    Ausphotography Addict Lplates's Avatar
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    I have a D7100 and was equally frustrated a while ago trying to shoot a rodeo. Went and bought an extreme plus 80mb/s card and it certainly helped.

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    remember even with a fast card, every digital camera has a buffer and you can reach the buffer limit, whether it be a $700 entry level DSLR or a $10K pro model. A faster card will help considerably but you may find there are times when you hit the buffer (memory) limit even then.
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    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleSparrow View Post
    .....
    Would love some memory card recommendations!!
    I'm not an expert on this stuff, but there are a few sites that rate memory card speeds.
    Like Rick said, there are limits as to how fast you can go so you may spend say $50 on a fast card and it may work very fast, but spending $200 on the absolute fastest card may not yield all that much faster speeds over that.

    From the reviews I've seen (you can get faster cards) but the Sandisk Extreme Pro 95Mb/s UHS-I seems to offer a good balance of price and performance.
    Make sure you look for the card as written. You can get various other types of similar cards, for example Sandisk also have a Extreme Pro UHS-II version too.
    That card is rated much faster than the 95Mb/s of the card I've listed, and comes in at 2x the price.
    It may well be a bit faster, and I doubt it'd be more than about 5Mb/s faster than the card I listed .. so you'd be paying 2x the price but for about a 5% increase in actual speed.
    This is why I said try to balance the price/performance ratio.

    I've seen the 32Gb version of the Sandisk Extreme Pro 95Mb/s UHS-I for about $60 or less

    The main point is not to get lured(or fooled) by the manufacturer's speed ratings! They usually mean very little when it comes to how they interoperate with your camera!

    Also note: at about $58 that I've seen the above card I think it's very good value for money. I also noticed the 16Gb version for about $42 or so on the same site. I can't see the 16Gb version as good value to be honest. The way I see it is that most likely in the future your next camera will have more megapixels, so the image files will be larger. think of this aspect when deciding on which card size to get too. I'd get two of them as the D7100 has twin card slots and be done with it.

    Finally, while the faster card will help, it's not a full solution to the issue you may still see again some day.
    The D7100 is a fine camera, and I've often thought of getting one too(for something to muck about with) .. but the buffer limitation is an issue very commonly read about on the internet .. on forums and on many reviews.
    So! lets say you're only getting say 5 or 6 shots in burst mode when the camera locks itself up due to buffer, I think the issue is that the buffer limit is still only about 12 frames anyhow .. so if you shoot at the fastest Ch rate at 6fps .. that's still only a 2 sec burst!
    So you may still need to alter the way you shoot, the mode you shoot in(ie. maybe use CL mode at a reduced rate) .. or maybe do set the file compression and bit depth lower(see below).

    ..... I do like to do a lot of post processing. Im a photoshop addict so spend hours playing with my photos. But since I just shot for myself I will try making some adjustments in the camera and see how it goes.
    The processing i'm referring too is for raw files only!
    ie. PS doesn't work directly on raw files. if you open a raw file in PS, you have to preview and edit the actual raw file in ACR(which then saves another file for PS to physically use).
    The issues can come with the way you edit in ACR in this instance .. not PS.

    I have a D300, and it has a massive issue with respect to bit depth settings for the raw file.
    At 12bits, the camera shoots at 6 fps so feels like a sports camera, but if set to 14bits(which is what I prefer) .. the camera only shoots at about 1fps .... it's supposedly 1.5fps, but it's hard to notice!
    The feeling is the same tho ... it's a total slug, even for landscape shooting sometimes if a bracketed exposure is wanted.
    Instead of clickclickclick .. the camera is click ... click .... click
    The problem is the too-ing and fro-ing between bit settings.
    D300 has the buffer capacity, D7100 has the speed at any bit depth setting .. Nikon being frustrating again!
    Anyhow, having seen the effects if some loss in detail in using 12bit, I do prefer to capture at 14bits.
    Note that the loss in detail is (from what I've seen) only in the ability to recover highlight detail more than anything else. And sometimes you can see what's called posterisation in darker details.
    Usually you see this in blue colours.
    But again, this is only on the working raw file. once that raw file has been finished and you then start operating on a variant of that raw file(as PS does) .. then the issue of bit depths and compression are null.

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    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    There's info about, and you've just got to look for it (not particularly hard either in this case).
    By searching "write speed of d7100" I came across several tables like this one.
    Your card or its equivalent is surely there somewhere.

    What is hard to find is a Nikon published write speed (at least for me). I found a couple of derived ones, the first being in the link above in the "Analysis" section
    below the tables. That was 72 MB/sec (megabytes), the other was cited in this forum post: http://photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00bT2o, where the writer quotes
    a figure of 90 MB/sec - from somewhere.

    I'd pay a red cent to see something published by Nikon

    The results suggest that you wouldn't be losing your hat in amazement in real word situations unless you had a card made in the 1970s in the 1st place
    Last edited by ameerat42; 29-08-2015 at 7:57am.

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    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ameerat42 View Post
    ....

    I'd pay a red cent to see something published by Nikon

    .......
    The issue is that any figure quoted by the manufacturer would only be a 'theoretical' one.
    That is, the hardware will be rated at a certain speed, but the reality is that with the various cards brands and models available those speeds would almost certainly be meaningless.

    Using Camera Memory Speed as a guide for camera-card compatibilities and performances about 72MB/s is the camera's limit.

    Here's their table of card speeds on the D7100

    The Sandisk card I listed comes in at 69MB/s and an Aussie price for that card is about $60.
    While the Lexar Professional 2000x UHS-II 32Gb card is faster at 72MB/s .. it's price is double by comparison!

    So the extra $60 odd only nets you an increase of about 3MB/s transfer rate(from buffer to card).
    Remember the buffer on the camera is fixed so there's nothing you can do to change that.
    To clear a full buffer of ~256MB(which it seems is what the D7100 uses) .. that extra 3MB/s amounts to a 0.2sec advantage to the faster Lexar card.

    You can overspend on such accessories!
    And don't take the manufacturer's speed rating at face value, as they are usually meaningless in almost all every day situations.
    But, if you look at it from the point of view that you may be updating your camera at some point in the future, then having overspent now on an accessory such as this may subsequently see the advantage finally come to fruition.
    Last edited by arthurking83; 29-08-2015 at 9:47am. Reason: fixed link

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    Thank you for the links and info, very helpful! I did some research last night and found quite a few recommendations for the card mentioned (Sandisk Extreme Pro 95Mb/s UHS-I) so I might look into purchasing one or two.
    As for my camera settings, I turned on 'compressed' and 12bit instead of lossless compression and 14bit and it seems to have helped a bit. I took some pics this morning of my dog and I didn't notice it lagging quite as much as I has been previously. I also didn't notice much data loss due to the 12bit, but im no expert so maybe I just don't now what to look for lol.

    DSC_0592 by Little Sparrow Photography, on Flickr

    - - - Updated - - -

    and for extra cuteness factor....

    DSC_0600 by Little Sparrow Photography, on Flickr

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    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
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    Good to see you testing it for yerself!

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleSparrow View Post
    ...... I also didn't notice much data loss due to the 12bit, but im no expert so maybe I just don't now what to look for lol.

    .....
    I made a quick summary at the very bottom of my reply, and with reasons why immediately below:

    Like I said earlier ... and I know I do go on a bit, but it's usually for a reason.

    The loss of data from 14 bit down to 12 bit will only really reveal itself only when you push process an image .. and even then in some specific types of instances.
    One common issue, that I've seen and read from others is the posterisation of some colours when pushed a bit.
    That is, say you're using Lr(and I reckon ACR will do it too, but never tried) and you capture an image with some nice blue colours in them, but they weren't exactly as dark as you originally saw them(with you're eyes). If you push the not so dark blue to a darker shade of blue in the raw file, you can get some strange artefacts(known as posterisation) in the image.

    A more extreme example of this bit depth issue has been discussed at length by many and various reviewers on the topic of Sony's use of only 11bit raw capture on some of their high end cameras.

    The best examples of image being affected by the bit depth issue comes from Raw Digger's essay on the subject.
    The article itself is a bit technical/convoluted for those not interested in the guts of how images are made .. but the pictures speak a thousand words.

    rawdigger info on Sony 11bit issue

    All you need to do it look at the images of the star trail and see how the camera and software process the one particular trail and how it's affected by posterisation artefacts.
    The main point of the article is an analysis of the underlying reasons .. which is loss of pixel data due to low bit depth.
    Jpgs do the same thing. If you push process them too far they can look pretty average.

    As a predominantly landscape type photographer, one of the things we sometimes try to do is to push what we can capture in a single exposure.
    (and really just for the purpose of making life easy/easier).
    In saying that tho, PS doesn't really process pixel data in the same manner for most of the way folks use it.

    So if you're happy with the way your images look in 12 bit capture mode and/or (lossy)compressed shooting modes .. for sure you'd probably do it that way.
    It offers advantages(A) at the risk of a possible disadvantage(D).
    If A is a certainty and D is a possibility, then you would be better going with a workflow that you know will give you certain results(in this instance some speed/responsiveness from the camera) and not worry about some possibility that may never eventuate(the loss of some data that you usually don't care for anyhow!)

    If it ever comes to the point that you start to see some 'loss of quality' issues from the images for no known reason into the future, it's easy to think back to this conundrum.

    As I said with my D300(all D300's are like this). The camera itself has very capable hardware on the whole. Large enough buffer fast enough card write times .. etc.
    But due to the Sony sensor used, the camera can only clear the sensor data to the rest of the camera at a very low rate of exchange.
    That is, the buffer isn't the issue there ... nor is the card write times. The sensor simply can't offload the data any faster with the quality set to 14bit.

    I tried that for a while and found some images when I tried to recover highlights(mainly) and some blues(which are usually in the mid to lower tone values) would subsequently process ugly.
    So I went from 14 bit capture mode(for quality) .. back to 12 bit (because speed suddenly became an issue) .. back to 14 bit because quality became an issue again.

    ps. With the D3100, you wouldn't have noticed this issue as much(although to a degree it'd still have been there) for more reasons than just the more limited 3 or so fps shooting maximum.
    D3100 is only set to 12bit and from memory is only compressed raw format.
    That is, you don't get an option for 14bit at all on the D3100 and there is no option for altering the NEF compression process(this helps majorly in determining the resultant file size).
    So files are almost always smaller, Nikon probably used a similar if not the same sized buffer(cheapskates that they are! ) ... and try to flog the D7100 as a high end camera!

    ps. that last line is more tongue in cheek than that it may initially appear, and I just like to take a swipe at Nikon every opportunity that arises .. even tho I refuse to use any other system myself!

    Summary:
    I'd leave the camera set in the way you just set up, if I were in your situation (reasons above).
    My situation for choosing higher data capture was a different one to what you're doing.
    Even if you do end up with a couple of those faster SD cards .. I'd still leave it setup in 12 bit and compressed NEF capture mode if I were using your workflow method.

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