PS6 not saving EXIF! Help!

[dacar]

Hi everyone.
I did some editing in PS6 the other day and noticed that the EXIF data is not saving. I know how to make sure it is saved in the "Save for web..." dialog, but can't see where to ensure it is saved in .PSD format. The data is saved with .TIF and .JPG formats but not when I save in .PSD or .BMP formats. Very strange.. because it used to be OK. I may have changed something when I did a clean install in January.
Any help gratefully accepted.

[Warbler]

How are you trying to read the EXIF in your PSD files?

[ameerat42]

In Photoshop, have you checked that it is still there in the said formats?

[dacar]

Thanks for the responses.
Here it what I have discovered since this morning:
When I open all versions of a file (including the RAW - NEF- format) in PS6, I can see some EXIF data by going to File-File Info... on the menu. The dialog displays basic info under "Camera" and more stuff under the "Advanced" and "Raw Data" tabs.
When I open the files in a couple of viewing programs (FastStone and ExifPro) and by selecting "Properties" from the right-click menu in Explorer I see extensive EXIF data only for the TIFF and the NEF files and the JPG files i have created since discovering this issue.
So, why is the data visible in PS6 and not elsewhere?
And how can I prevent its loss in future?

[ameerat42]

Loss? If it's still visible in PS then it's not lost. Sounds like the other progs just can't get to it???
I have FastStone and can see that it doesn't show EXIF in a PSD. It does show it for a jpeg AND for
the original RAW file (though a bit less for the raw).

So if you're asking HOW to see it in PSDs, I cannot help

[Lance B]

Are you saying that only your jpegs are not showing the EXIF? If so, how are you saving the jpegs? 8bit or 16bit?

[Warbler]

PSD is an Adobe format so that is why you can see it in PS CS6. Other programs may or may not be able to either preview the PSD, or read the EXIF. Why are you using faststone anyway? Try using Bridge which you have already as part of CS6.

[ameerat42]

Dacar. If you save that PSD again as a JPEG, you will see the EXIF data again with FastStone.
(At least I did!)

[farmmax]

I use faststone as my main photo viewer/renamer/resizer/organiser even though I edit photos in photoshop. Bridge is a drag on resources and is my last go to photo organiser. Faststone is fast and zippy and can run in computers with very limited resources. Yes, don't worry, the PSD exif information isn't lost. It is as Warbler says, the .psd format is an Adobe created format mainly for use in Adobe software. Luckily these days many other photo viewers including Faststone can view .psd. Many years ago, very few programs outside Adobe supported .psd files at all.

[Warbler]

I only ever use FastStone for creating Slideshows or screensavers. Bridge is IMHO superior in almost every way to FastStone for cataloging and managing/renaming/resizing and accessing ACR for individudual and batch editing. Commercial quantities of images are no problem. I'm running Win7 64-bit ultimate with 32gb of RAM though.

[ameerat42]

But I think it's that he can't see exif in other progs.

[Warbler]

Yes, but that's why I asked what programs he was using. If he wants to save files as PSD, then he should use a program that reads PSD and the EXIF if that is what he wants to read. FastStone can view the PSD, but it won't display the full EXIF. ACDSee will both view and read EXIF on PSD files, but Bridge is free because he already has Photoshop.

[ameerat42]

But getting back to the nub: no, he won't see much exif like that

[dacar]

Thanks for all your comments. Been a bit tardy in getting back to this post - life gets in the way of photography sometimes.
So, it seems that the exif is still there, but not accessible by all viewers. Adobe products put the data somewhere only they can get at it - what a nasty trick! Saving everything in jpg is not always a good idea because of loss of flexibility.
It looks like I will have to be careful about which apps I use to view my images - different apps for different purposes: FastStone for quick viewing, Bridge for sorting and cataloguing... What a pain.
Thanks again everyone.

[Warbler]

When you're using Bridge, don't put the PSD files in the same directory as the RAW files and JPEG files. There is a bug in the system which makes it not preview the images correctly sometimes. Also, not creating 100% previews in the settings will speed things up. Make sure your cache is nice and large too. Drop me a PM if you have problems and I'll try to help you.

[arthurking83]

Thanks for all your comments. .......


So, it seems that the exif is still there, but not accessible by all viewers. Adobe products put the data somewhere only they can get at it - what a nasty trick! .....

I did some snooping:

exif is(and isn't) there in the PSD file.
(FWIW tho, doing some of these tests, this is the first time I've ever used the PSD format, so my knowledge of it is extremely limited. If I acquire any more understanding of it in any way, I'll post back again)

So with that in mind, the metadata stored in the PSD file is actually stored in the PSD file .. not seperated into a sidecar file.

What I did:
I took an image(Nikon NEF originally) which had loads of data already embedded. I always keyword my raw images when necessary, so the keywording was also embedded into the file. ViewNX2 was used to achieve this.
So to be clear, all the metadata available was embedded into the original raw file!

(on a side note: I believe that using programs like Bridge/Lr/and others that create separate sidecar files for the metadata can create issues in the future! .. but this isn't relevant in any way for this thread!)

I loaded the NEF file into PS, and saved it into a PSD file(my very first ever). I kept the same original file name of DSC_<something-or-other> (again there is no relevance to the file name .. except)

I then used Windows explorer to rename the PSD file, and saved it to another hard drive .. just to be sure that when viewed again in PS, the PSD file and any possible sidecar file used for metadata were completely isolated.
There was no way that using PS now to open this newly named file, that PS would somehow associate it with any externally created metadata file created for the original.

If you do this with a file where the metadata was stored externally(eg. as Lr and Bridge do) .. then you lose the association if the two files are 'separated'. This is easy to reproduce for those that want to see the result.

So with my best effort to separate the PSD file and any potential external sidecar file, PS still read the embedded metadata 100%.
What this proves is that the metadata is saved within the PSD. (and to be sure, exif is only one part of a host of metadata types possible .. IPTC is another)

The other thing that is easy to prove for yourselves(if interested), is that you can also view the metadata in the PSD using other software.
The catch is that this software has to be able to read XMP type metadata.

XMP metadata is an Adobe created metadata type encompassing a host of other metadata types within it's fold. Exif is contained within the XMP metadata embedded in the PSD file.

For an easy to use program to view PSD metadata .. try Jeffrey's Exif Viewer.
Note for the (rightly!!) cautious. That link is to a web based exif viewer site. I've used this site for years now and can confirm that is' safe to use.
You use the browse function to locate your file(in this case PSD) and it will present the image in all it's glory .. whatever glory you added via your tagging routine!

With my renamed PSD file, loading into this website not only returned an image of the PSD file, but even showed me where the shot was taken on a map, as I had my GPS connected to the camera at the time.

So all the exif IS stored in the PSD file(which is good! ).

The reason not many programs can view the embedded metadata is most certainly due to that point that those external programs can't read the XMP metadata format.

Some searching around confirmed that FSViewer doesn't read XMP metadata .. nor IPTC(which is what I mainly concentrate on with my keywording).

The OP said that they used to be able to see exif in the PSD at some earlier stage, and if this is the situation, then maybe Adobe changed the way that they used to save embedded data in the PSD file format

Hope that helps.

(ps. I'll look into it a bit more at some point in the immediate future, and will try to get back with any more info if I find it)

[farmmax]

When you're using Bridge, don't put the PSD files in the same directory as the RAW files and JPEG files. There is a bug in the system which makes it not preview the images correctly sometimes. Also, not creating 100% previews in the settings will speed things up.

And you wonder why I prefer Faststone I run it with sorting by file type so it puts my psd files last in every folder. It creates thumbnails and full previews a mile faster than Bridge, and I never have to worry about my cache (other than for photoshop)

[Warbler]

And you wonder why I prefer Faststone I run it with sorting by file type so it puts my psd files last in every folder. It creates thumbnails and full previews a mile faster than Bridge, and I never have to worry about my cache (other than for photoshop)

No, I don't wonder at all Farmmax. The point is that you still can't view PSD EXIF data in Faststone can you?

[Warbler]

Here's a screen shot. There are over 9,000 PSD files in this one directory. Some are layered. Some are not. They all contain the original EXIF data. The data can be searched or filtered in the panel on the bottom left. The cache is there and every time I open this folder, Bridge simply reads the cache. It doesn't have to recreate the previews again.

The reason I suggested Bridge to dacar was that he already had PS and Bridge is part of that. He wanted to be able to view the EXIF in his PSD files. Why not use what you already have? Sure, he could buy Lightroom and use that. Faststone though, will not show the EXIF in a PSD file, and Windows will not even preview a PSD file.

Untitled-1.jpg

[arthurking83]

...... Faststone though, will not show the EXIF in a PSD file, and Windows will not even preview a PSD file.

.....

Actually, if the exif in a PSD file was created in a standardised manner, I believe that Fastone would display the exif in a PSD file.
Not that such speculation helps the OP .. just a point that should be made.

..... The reason I suggested Bridge to dacar was that he already had PS and Bridge is part of that. He wanted to be able to view the EXIF in his PSD files. Why not use what you already have? ...

While this is a fair enough point to make, the issue is that the assumption is that dacar's workflow is the same as yours. It may well not be!

A simple case in point could be something like this:
The person to whom the answer is directed at may have multiple computers to which they would then have to then install Bridge(and hence PS) on all those devices. Of those multiple devices, we can't assume that they all have the latest and greatest specifications.
I myself have a Windows 7 tablet(purchased a few years back now) .. it's specs are pretty terrible, but do the job I required of the tablet.
Running Bridge(let alone PS) on this Atom powered tablet would be impossible(especially now that much or most of Adobe's software is 64bit only)
So as said by farmax, the OP may be running FSViewer simply for the sake of resource management!(I know I do).

While Bridge may be superior to FSViewer for cataloging images, it's not the ideal manner in which to do so.
Such a workflow limits yourself to using Bridge to view this tagged info(in many image format types) .. especially raw images. Heed the warning that you become locked into this software after a while.
(I can tell you from experience, once you reach a certain level of multiple tens of thousands of image files that may need to be re tagged all over again from scratch .. using Bridge to tag important info is being locked into Adobe's software!
Anyhow ..
There are better ways to tag your images(especially raw files) so that all raw file viewers(even Windows!!) can see this tagged info.

The one thing that Adobe are trying to present to the world in general is that they are offering this software product(in this instance the concept of XMP metadata presentation) in the form of full compatibility and backward compatibilty .. yet somehow manage to break compatibility to the previous manner in which the way the metadata was originally presented!
Exif is a standard, and still is a standard. Adobe's method of embedding it into XMP data is the cause of the issue described by the OP.
The issue is the same in Irfanview as well.
While they can read the image format without issue and render it as an image, this metadata method that Adobe chose to use is the root of the display problem.

I just found that Picasa also has the ability to render Adobe's PSD format .. and that Picasa can also read the XMP metadata format. Yet it too doesn't read the XMP data within PSD files!

BTW! it's a dreadful program for image management!

While this may point to the issue lying squarely with FSViewer, Irfanview and or Picasa in not being able to read the Adobe file formats properly .. my thoughts are that it's actually the other way around.
Adobe need to understand that the open and standard format philosophies that preceded theirs worked across all products .. prior to their convoluted interruption!

To the OP again:
If loading your PSD images to the www for quick browsing doesn't appeal(and why would it), and you are firmly against using Bridge to view exif properties in those PSD files too .. then for local hard drive browsing I can recommend exiftool and exiftoolGUI to quickly browse through your PSD files for their exif data.
exiftool is great, but annoyingly commandline only.
If you have a Windows PC, you can use exiftoolGUI(graphical windowed extension for exiftool) to easily view the metadata embedded within the PSD file.
Only issue here tho is that it won't display an image of the file.
It works with raw files too, as long as the respective raw file manufacturer's codecs are installed on the PC.

So at the moment you're stuck with Warbler's recommendation to use Bridge to view both the PSD images and the exif data.