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Thread: Body Choices

  1. #1
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    Body Choices

    I know I'm stepping into the dark side with this inquiry as in the end I know it's up to me, how ever I'm just looking for a little more clarity on this decision I think?

    I currently have a D5000, Sig. 120-400 and Nikkor 24-70which are the 2 main lenses I use for wild life, family shots and walk around.

    Putting aside the $ factor, I am looking at the new Sig 150-600S first and then getting the D7200 and the D750, but not sure regarding the Bodies as to which way to regarding the Body, (All subject to change without notice of course).

    Any helpful thoughts appreciated.
    Nikon, D750, D5000, 35mm f/1.8, 18-55mm & 55-200mm kit lens,
    Nikon 24-70mm f/2.8, Sigma 120-400mm, Sigma 150-600S, SB-910, Metz mecablitz 58 AF-2
    Manfrotto 680B Mono + 234RC tilt, 055XPROB + 804RC2.

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    Still in the Circle of Confusion Cage's Avatar
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    The Sigma 150-600mm S is a DG lens designed for full frame cameras so I guess the D750 is a no-brainer.
    Cheers
    Kev

    D800 & GAS

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    In someways it is my preferred option but for wild life I believe DX can be a help with 1.6 FOV characteristic.

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    Still in the Circle of Confusion Cage's Avatar
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    I'd be surprised if you couldn't switch the D750 to 'DX' mode when you need the crop factor. Are your current lens FX models ?

    I feel that upgrading from one DX model to another DX model is a sideways step, plus the FX option opens up a plethora of high quality future lens purchases.

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    Thank you Cage, not fully up to speed with the DX option on FX cameras and how they work but was aware if it so that may be a resolve to my situation. Thank You.

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    Who let the rabble in? Lance B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROA44 View Post
    In someways it is my preferred option but for wild life I believe DX can be a help with 1.6 FOV characteristic.
    OK. Yes, the DX cameras will give you a 1.5x crop factor, meaning that your 150-600 Sigma lens will be "like" a 225-900mm, but at a penalty with more noise in the image - you do not get something for nothing! So, what you gain in the roundabouts you lose in the swings, so to speak. The Sigma can only be opened up to f6.3 wide open and that means that on your D7200 at 600mm it is "like" a 900mm and therefore you will require a shutter speed of up around 1/900sec just to stop normal subject movement, if they are moving you will require a higher shutter speed than that! Remember, VR only helps to keep YOU steady, not the subject. So, when you are up at shutter speeds like 1/1000sec, or likely more if the subject is moving (like birds generally do!), and an f stop of around f8 (almost a stop down from wide open to get best IQ), then you are talking about HIGH ISO even in good light and this brings noise, DX having about 1 stop less high ISO ability than the D750 due to extra noise at high ISO.

    I have both the D7200 and the D810 and I am not sold on the D7200 for reach as it brings too much noise into the equation for my liking, the reason being is that once you get to a certain focal length like 600+mm you need these high shutter speeds to keep the subject still which then results in high ISO's and that brings noise.

    I don't want to seem as though I am talking you out of the D7200 as that is not my intention, rather that you just need to be aware that it's not always the answer for "reach". Yes, if you have a 300mm lens and want 450mm from DX, then it can work as you aren't at those stratospheric shutter speeds like you are if you are using a 900mm lens. When you are at those really long focal lengths, you really need top shelf long-lens-ability and know your subject very well to know if and when you can possibly drop the shuttr speed down to keep the ISO down. This doesn't work when your subject is moving or flying or whatever.

    If you go the D750 you will be able to use your Nikon 24-70 f2.8 in the focal range that it was actually meant for, ie 24-70 rather than what it is on DX which is 36-105. Not only that, but the D750 is excellent at high ISO.

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    Thank you Lance I always appreciate your down to earth thoughts on issues. hopefully it wont be long before I can take the plunge.



    I have actually manage to get what I think are some good shots with the 24-70 after B&W conversion, but am waiting for feed back from an organization re copy right as the main subject is a well know actor/stage performer but nothing mentioned in any of their blurb re taking of photos and a number of people were so hopefully I will be able to share them soon although I don't really want to post them on Flicker so will see how we go.

    Cheers for now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ROA44 View Post
    In someways it is my preferred option but for wild life I believe DX can be a help with 1.6 FOV characteristic.
    You wont get any more detail with the 150-600 on a DX sensor than you will with and FX. What you will get is the illusion of being closer to your subject because the subject will fill more of your frame, but because the FX frame is bigger you will get what the DX frame gives you plus more of whats around your subject. Your subject will still be the same size. Of course if you are going to print straight from your camera the subject in your DX prints will be bigger you'll just have to crop to get the same effect but you will have the pixles to do it.
    The 150-600 on the D750 will be heavy. I have the Tamron 150-600 on the D750 I call the beast and it's heavy but worth it :-)

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    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjnic View Post
    You wont get any more detail with the 150-600 on a DX sensor than you will with and FX. ....
    This needs to be qualified a bit.

    There are two ways to view this point.

    1/. you don't get any more detail focused onto the sensor (using the same lens), irrespective of whether the sensor is a 24Mp Fx type, or 24Mp Dx type .. the amount of detail that the lens provides is always the same!

    2/. you do (however) capture more detail per sq mm of sensor area if the sensor is a Dx type compared to that of an Fx type.

    The equivalence factor in this is akin to 2 pixels of detail captured by the D7200, for every 1 pixel of detail captured by the D750.

    So, under ideal conditions .. the D7200 will display more detail for any given lens.
    We all know that ideal conditions are very rare .. and then you have the titanic battle between the Sigma god and the Nikon god to deal with as well!

    If the Sigma lens is capable of providing sufficient detail, then mounting it to the D7200 to capture that detail will result in images with more detail to work with compared to those of the D750.

    if it were my choice tho .. I'd go with the D750!
    Why: (theoretically) it will allow you more latitude for those times when ideal conditions and Sigma-Nikon deities are conspiring against you!

    If your usage was strictly for capturing birds/small wildlife .. and only birds/small widlife .. the D7200 would probably make more sense tho.
    I suspect tho, that once you have the camera in hand .. your photography will involve a lot more than just wildlife.
    As already said, the 24-70 lens becomes a totally other beast.

    As for the Fx/Dx option in the camera(only Fx cameras have this option!!) .. in your situation you would probably never need to worry about it.
    In saying that tho, I see you have the 35/1.8 lens listed in your sig, and assume it's the Dx variant. If this is the case, and you still have this lens, then it may come into play if you decide to go with the D750 as opposed to the D7200(and I'm still thinking that this is the better option).

    The 35/1.8 is Dx only, and by default when mounted to any Fx camera, the camera automatically switches to Dx mode. You kind'a see this through the vf, where a black outline indicates the actual framing in this (now) Dx mode.
    I tell anyone willing to listen, to turn that mode off .... and set it manually as needed(if ever needed).

    For about a year after I got my D800, I still maintained use of the Sigma 10-20 lens, which is Dx only, and still used this manual Dx mode selection(although very rarely!)
    I just captured all the images in Fx mode .. massively vignetted frame and all.
    What it did allow me tho(with this workflow) .. was that I could then crop the frame to something else .. and not simply have to accept the Dx format.
    I used to push the boundaries with this lens too, and probably cropped in the 4:6 format just slightly wider than the 10mm that the lens was supposed to be. It may have been only 1mm or so more, but more is more, and I'll have it, if it's available
    The actual reason I started doing this was a bit more simple tho .. the lens projects a circle, and the cropping is a rectangle. So I used it predominantly to capture more image detail from an area not usually captured in Dx format. That is, I regularly cropped those images to a 1:1 format pushing up to the edges of the vignette.
    I did eventually get a proper 135 format UWA lens to work with .. but I can't say that it ever felt like using a Dx lens on the D800(Fx camera) was some kind of limitation.

    Hope that helps with any Dx-Fx curiosity
    Nikon D800E, D300, D70s
    {Nikon} -> 50/1.2 : 500/8(CPU'd) : 105/2.8VR Micro : 180/2.8ais : 105mm f/1.8ais : 24mm/2ais
    {Sigma}; ->10-20/4-5.6 : 50/1.4 : 12-24/4.5-5.6II : 150-600mm|S
    {Tamron}; -> 17-50/2.8 : 28-75/2.8 : 70-200/2.8 : 300/2.8 SP MF : 24-70/2.8VC


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    About to go out but just caught this, also remember I'm using the D5000 12m sensor and about 5 years, old wouldn't the technology developement help as well help.

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    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
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    lets say you got yourself the D750, and you keep the D5000.

    As an example; you want to do really close in shots of a macro kind.

    If you choose any lens that does close up capture(lets call this lens a macro lens), and you have total control over the ambient conditions ..

    theoretically the 12Mp capability of the D5000(being a Dx camera) has the ability to capture more detail than the D750 does on a pixel per pixel basis. The D750 in Dx mode captures about 10Mp(give or take).

    The above situation involves total control over the lighting conditions, which then assumes that you will be using a tripod, a remote release of some type(exposure delay or mirror lockup .. etc, etc).

    But if you're situation requires that you need to adapt to set lighting conditions, which could involve increasing ISO to high levels .. then the opposite is almost certain to be true.
    In this second situation, even tho the D750 has lower pixel density(and hence lower resolution) .. the D750 will still give you better image clarity due to it's superior technology.


    My suspicion is that if you do end up getting the D750, it's all round better ability will mean that the D5000 will end up on a shelf somewhere hardly ever getting used.

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    Ausphotography Regular swifty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjnic View Post
    You wont get any more detail with the 150-600 on a DX sensor than you will with and FX.
    This is with reference to the same sensor compared when used in FX and DX crop mode.
    With different sensors ie. different cameras then you'd need to look at the pixel density of each sensor. A 24MP D7200 will definitely get you more detail than a 24MP D750 with the same lens. Only the FOV changes.
    Of course you could use the D750 in DX crop mode to get the same FOV as the D7200 but that DX cropped area on the D750 will only be around 10MP compared to D7200's native 24MP DX sensor.

    This is all in theory of course. In practice whether you'll realise the full potential of all those extra pixels is another story. And Lance gave the example of needing to push ISO to maintain hand-holdable shutter speeds which will rob image detail.
    And as AK points out there are more versatility in shooting with FX when it comes to freedom of crop.
    But depending on your subject, you need to realise that you loose some of the approximate 1 stop high ISO IQ advantage of the FX sensor as soon as you try to crop, whether in camera or in post. And you'd need to account for the extra magnification too with faster shutter speeds just as you would had you been shooting DX in the first place. So if your subject is small and such that you can never get close enough, there is a case for the D7200. Otherwise the D750 makes more sense.
    Nikon FX

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    I fairly sure I will go with the D750 and all the great information provided, is helping to support this. I would keep the D5000 at least for a while. But still a short time to go and another course.

    Thak you for your input.

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