Shooting and Saving : Filetypes : Poll

[ricktas]

Recently there was an interesting thread on AP regarding file saving and storage, thanks @mongo; for starting an interesting discussion.

So based on that, I thought lets see what everyone does. Do you shoot in RAW or JPG? What filetypes do you keep/archive?

Multiple choice poll so you can choose both how you shoot and how you save.

[CarolTas]

I tend to use the Raw and Jpeg combination, I have often thought about just using RAW only. I always keep my Raw files and and usually the Jpg's. I don't really have a good workflow and probably should work on it.

Oops didn't realise this was a poll.

[ricktas]

I tend to use the Raw and Jpeg combination, I have often thought about just using RAW only. I always keep my Raw files and and usually the Jpg's. I don't really have a good workflow and probably should work on it.

Oops didn't realise this was a poll.

you can take the poll at any time, even if you have commented.

[ameerat42]

I sometimes use/keep an intermediate high-quality file, like PSD, on my way to a final jpeg.
There might be a full-size final jpeg and a smaller one for posting here.
Am.

- - - Updated - - -

Beginner photographers may get a little confused about the terms used. By all means, use this thread to ask about anything you don't understand.

As a spin-off from this poll, I searched for the "difference" between RAW (usually not capitalised) and TIFF (usually capitalised), using "16 bit tiff vs raw".
There were a lot of "forum question" type references many of which had confusing replies (not answers), but one interesting discussion was
THIS ONE.

One particularly clear distinction the blogger made was as quoted...

Chris: Which one is truly a digital negative?

Chuck: I would say “neither.” In my opinion, RAW image data is more accurately described as a digital latent image in the respect that it has not been processed
into a usable image until it is rendered into a new file and stored in a different recording format, such as TIFF or JPEG. In the world of film recording, the term “negative”
refers to an image that’s been processed to a certain degree.

It's not that "digital negative" is such a useful term, but it just helps to clear up some fuzzy ideas we sometimes bandy about.

Anyway, the rest of the short interview may be of use.

Am.

[ricktas]

To add to what you say Am, a few years back and I cannot recall which model it was, but one of the Canon camera's raw files could just be renamed from Canon.raw (or the raw extension Canon use) to Canon.TIF and the file was perfectly readable. The raw format for that particular model was simply a TIF file to begin with.

[bricat]

And you used terminology not associated with canon. IE Canon raw files are CR2. So TIFF(which I have heard of) and PSD are terms not usually associated with when editing in Canon DPP. If they are I haven't reached that stage yet. cheers Brian

[ricktas]

And you used terminology not associated with canon. IE Canon raw files are CR2. So TIFF(which I have heard of) and PSD are terms not usually associated with when editing in Canon DPP. If they are I haven't reached that stage yet. cheers Brian

Not sure what you mean? as you said CR2 are Canon's raw files, and the poll has RAW as an option, but you cannot save as a CR2 file once you have edited it. So you need to save in another format. TIF/PSD are high quality image file types that are non-lossy. JPG is a lossy, lower quality file type. When you use Canon DPP and go 'file save as' you should be offered a list of filetypes to save with, these would include JPG, TIF, BMP and more, most likely.

I wanted to make the poll as generic as possible without having to name all the different raw file nomenclature for each brand, and list all the other image file types. So I gave a couple of examples only.

But here you go, the raw file extensions used by various camera brand manufacturers:

Canon : CR2 and CRW
Nikon : NEF
Olympus: ORF
Kodak : DCR and KDC
Minolta : MRW
Pentax : PEF
Fuji : RAF
Sony : SRF
Leica : DNG
Panasonic : RW2
Hasselblad : CFV
Samsung : SRW

EDIT: from youtube, in Canon DPP, you can choose File > Convert and Save : gives you an option for file format, where you can choose the various image file formats.

[ameerat42]

I'm not sure what you mean, Brian - or who. DPP would certainly be able to save as TIFF, and since PSD is
Adobe proprietary format, I'm not sure if DPP can save or convert to it.
Am.

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...a-a-and I had a phone call while writing this so I didn't see Rick's reply.

[arthurking83]

Canon's DPP does save in both tif and jpg file types .. but as already said not in other manufacturers proprietary formats.

The [save] option gives you the available options, of which there are a few for each of the two file types.

Nikon's equivalent software .. ViewNX2 .. also gives the raw file editor a few options, but they do so in a bit of a convoluted setup.

The file type currently active can only be saved in the file type that it exists as, if you use the save/save as option.
That is, a jpg can only be saved as a jpg .. tif as a tif, and NEF as an NEF.

To change the file type, the Convert tool in another part of the screen needs to be used.
Why they didn't see fit to have those two relatively similar tools grouped together is beyond my ability to comprehend.

But the Nikon system has an advantage in that you can save the file into multiple versions of itself.
While all software allows you to do this for jpgs and tifs .. not all have this option for raw files.
So the overall benefit is that you can have multiple copies/variations of the one raw file.

(not that Nikon's newer software is a major step backwards from this once useful proposition .. but that's now old news)

Also, on the topic of how to accurately describe what a raw file is .. digital negative is the more accurate terminology .. especially compared to this term of digital latent.
The description provided in the quote that a raw file is not processed, is a gross misunderstanding of what a raw file is to most users.

All raw files(as most of us know them) are processed in some way. That we further process them is simply a further step that we decide is appropriate.
But processed is exactly what happens to the raw file.
If not, we basically wouldn't see it.
IN a sense the person making this claim could be considered correct, in that the raw file itself is just a collection of digital numerical values that describe what each pixel data point should provide, but that description needs to be rendered too. For that rendering process, a 'process' needs to be applied to make the collection of data useful in any meaningful way.

So while the raw file is just a set of data, that data is useless if it's not rendered as an image. The rendering of the image requires at the least a tone curve and a colour profile to be applied. Colour profile and tone curve is a process .. ie. it's processed.

The reason this is important to note is simple .. each software will render the same raw file differntly.
The basic premise made here is that each software processes the usable raw file differently.

The notion that the raw file is not processed is a gross inaccuracy of reality.

The comment made earlier that to a degree the notion can be considered correct, is that some software do exist that only really use the data in the raw file.
While it still needs to apply a tone curve and colour profile, this software allows you to see the actual raw data in it's completely useless glory(if you're so inclined).
Obviously some folks are .. I was only curious to see what/why .. but I'm not that way inclined.
If you are curious to the nth degree .. RawDigger is your port of call. I don't recommend it tho.

I only want a raw file to see what the image is(not what the data is) .. and processed it most definitely is.

[fillum]

I typically edit in LR (so non-destructive) but don't generate sidecar files. I then export to JPG. So this would be:-

Saving: Keep RAW + JPG

Personally I'm not particularly concerned that this option isn't there, but I would have thought that this is quite a common workflow.
(Or have I completely missed something? )



Cheers.

[ricktas]

Saving: Keep RAW + JPG

Personally I'm not particularly concerned that this option isn't there, but I would have thought that this is quite a common workflow.
(Or have I completely missed something? )



Cheers.

Knew I would miss one or more options as I created the poll. I can add it now

[swifty]

Knew I would miss one or more options as I created the poll. I can add it now

Actually that's me too. But I just chose the nearest option since I occasionally use Tiff or PSD files too.

[yummymummy]

I shoot in RAW most of the time, unless I'm shooting sports, then it's jpeg. I always save RAW files, but also use lightroom for sports jpegs for easier batch processing, and it depends on the job as to how I save the other edited files. If it's for a client that is just getting them as prints, then jpeg in sRGB or RGB colour space, if it's for a client that wants a larger size print, say for poster then I save as TIFF as it's lossless.

[bricat]

Sorry Rick, I did not mean to make more work for you!!! I don't have LR or CS 3,4,5,6, so any adjustments are done in DPP. I then just save that file using the same file number with the addition of a letter, "a" "b" "c" etc. It does not matter which format I am in as I just save and keep the original untouched.
I looked at the other options in DPP of save 8 bit tiff. etc. or 16 bit tiff. etc.
As I said in my original post Tiff and PSD are beyond my use at this stage and so I was unfamiliar with the (PSD)terminology.

With the new addition I would put save keeping Raw + Jpeg.

Of course I read and re-read replies to try and get a better understanding. cheers Brian

[MrQ]

Where does DNG fit? It's still a RAW file, but converted and without a sidecar file.

[ameerat42]

Where does DNG fit? It's still a RAW file, but converted and without a sidecar file.

That's right, MrQ. Here is an explanatory link.

[Gonk0]

Not sure what you mean? as you said CR2 are Canon's raw files, and the poll has RAW as an option, but you cannot save as a CR2 file once you have edited it. So you need to save in another format. TIF/PSD are high quality image file types that are non-lossy. JPG is a lossy, lower quality file type. When you use Canon DPP and go 'file save as' you should be offered a list of filetypes to save with, these would include JPG, TIF, BMP and more, most likely.

I wanted to make the poll as generic as possible without having to name all the different raw file nomenclature for each brand, and list all the other image file types. So I gave a couple of examples only.

But here you go, the raw file extensions used by various camera brand manufacturers:

Canon : CR2 and CRW
Nikon : NEF
Olympus: ORF
Kodak : DCR and KDC
Minolta : MRW
Pentax : PEF
Fuji : RAF
Sony : SRF
Leica : DNG
Panasonic : RW2
Hasselblad : CFV
Samsung : SRW

EDIT: from youtube, in Canon DPP, you can choose File > Convert and Save : gives you an option for file format, where you can choose the various image file formats.

One extention for you to add rick is for Sony .ARW as that is the Sony a6000 RAW file extension.

[tduell]

...and some Pentax models save in DNG, and some models give you the option of PEF or DNG.

Cheers,
Terry

[ricktas]

...and some Pentax models save in DNG, and some models give you the option of PEF or DNG.

Cheers,
Terry

DNG is a RAW format. Leica also save in DNG. So for the purposes of this poll, DNG is treated like all other RAW files.

[Mark L]

I don't have LR or CS 3,4,5,6, so any adjustments are done in DPP. I then just save that file using the same file number with the addition of a letter, "a" "b" "c" etc. It does not matter which format I am in as I just save and keep the original untouched.
I looked at the other options in DPP of save 8 bit tiff. etc. or 16 bit tiff. etc.
As I said in my original post Tiff and PSD are beyond my use at this stage and so I was unfamiliar with the (PSD)terminology.

So you would save in tiff if you wanted to go to something else to do further PPing after doing what you want in DPP (better than doing it with jpeg)
Also, you don't really have to make more files by keeping the original untouched. Just save the changes to the original Raw file in DPP. If you want to go back to the untouched file for some reason, just go to Adjustment and click on the Revert to shot settings. Your back were you started.
Of cause if you want to compare what you are about to try again, save the changes to the original before playing with it again.