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View Poll Results: If you were to upgrade LR / PS, would you prefer to buy a copy or subscribe.

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  • Buy outright.

    45 76.27%
  • Subscribe

    10 16.95%
  • Gravy

    4 6.78%
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Thread: Subscription software - why the trend?

  1. #41
    Member Warb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I @ M View Post
    Thanks for a well thought out and detailed post Warb. I realise the cost / business model / limitations that relate to software packages through their development and continual refreshes but from what I can see there has been relatively little fresh development to a product such as lightroom other than new model support additions and the odd feature or two.
    Correct, and as I posted earlier the same applies to most other software. Change the look and feel, throw in a new file format or two, increment the version number and kerching...$$$$$$. The issue is not with development, but with dollars. Saying that, what real differences are there between a 7 year old car and a new one? New software won't work on old computers for 2 major reasons: 1/ it is written so inefficiently (because computer hardware gets ever more powerful that efficiency isn't worth the effort) and 2/ BECAUSE IT IS DESIGNED NOT TO! So we are forced in to a constant cycle of upgrading hardware and software, with very little benefit. But that is no different to any other industry. My 1950's Land Rover will get me to town, but not in the same air conditioned comfort as my Hilux, and nowhere near as pleasantly as my wife's Prado.

    Quote Originally Posted by I @ M View Post
    This is one other point that I query regularly, I have yet to see any proven figures to support the theory that a$obe products are in actual fact the "industry" standard.
    When I say "industry" I mean the "creative industry" in general. Apple and Adobe did a very good job, many years ago, of becoming the de facto standard for "creative types". The reason was very simple, the early IBM PC's had very poor graphics! By the time PC's had caught up, and eventually overtaken (!?), Apple Macs had become entrenched as the standard for most creative graphics work. And the software of choice was Adobe. The same is true today, the daughter of a friend is starting university studying something creative/advertising/marketing and instantly she "needs a MacBook".

    It drives me mad, because in a commercial environment Macs are only used by creative people, and these days for no very good reason. PC's are just as good, and the same software titles are available (though for $ reasons the Mac versions are sometimes newer/better) and for really heavy image work big UNIX boxes are better. And Mac's are, historically, a nightmare to integrate with anything else. I was once involved in a project for a multi-national company, creating a particular piece of software for hundreds of users worldwide, and the cost and complexity doubled (and we're talking millions of dollars) because one department of 12 people used Macs. And for various reasons (notably the secretary of an executive officer being an ex-marketing company "Apple fan") we ended up crippling the software and doubling the cost to get it to run on Macs (for 12 people) as well as PC's (for > 200 people).

    OK, back on track....

    It's also important to remember that the vast majority of people in any given profession aren't talking about it on the web. Discussions on the web involve enthusiasts, not daily grind people. Reading IT forums, for example, you'd think that everyone used Ubuntu, Open Office, Firefox etc., and that Microsoft never sold anything. But that's simply not true. It's just that the people on the forums very often are "kids" who've read a magazine or two. The IT guys who work for large companies and buy software licenses 1000's at a time are mostly buying Microsoft products. Web development guys working from their front room might use all kinds of software, but in big companies Dreamweaver (Adobe) is the norm. The same applies to image editing software. How often have you heard someone say "celebrity X doesn't look like that, the picture's been Capture NX 2'd"? On the other hand, "that's been Photoshop'ed" is a standard phrase.

    It might also be the case that whilst photographers, professional or otherwise, might use a product to clean up their images, in the commercial world unless the image is regarded as "art" it is almost certainly subject to subsequent work. So the photographer may use Capture, but once that picture has been sold then the team doing the page layouts, website design or whatever are far more likely to be using a suite of Adobe products.

  2. #42
    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
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    To further add to the pain of subscription software, it seems that the next version of the Windows OS, Windows 10 may be paid for by subscription.

    THIS NEWS ITEM speculates that it may be by subscription anyhow .. no one really knows yet.

    I've been looking forward to Win10 as an update path from Win7 .. not because 7 is not usable(it sits just above XP in terms of usability and stability of all the OSes I've tried to date).
    Not so much for my desktop, but more so for the tablet I got years ago, which rarely gets used as Win7 is the wrong OS for a tablet. Win7 has tablet ability and features, but is not ideal for such devices.

    So now to make this tablet more userfriendly I may have to upgrade at some point.
    Once the preview version is more fully stable, I'm going to try it on the tablet to see how good/bad it operates.
    One of the nicer aspects of Win 10 is that it's minimum specs(although not officially revealed) appear to be lower than they are for Win8(and why I couldn't get Win8 on my tablet).

    It better be damned cheap tho! Win7 cost about $100 as an upgrade, or just a tad more as an OEM purchase(I always get the pro version) .. so $10/mth just isn't going to cut it.

    up to $50 per year is probably passable .. may have to cut my smokin in half(as the saying goes ) .... as long as it's available on two or three machines tho.


    Anyhow .. for us anarcho-anti-contra-subscriptionists .... the future is looking bleak!
    Nikon D800E, D300, D70s
    {Nikon}; -> 50/1.2 : 500/8 : 105/2.8VR Micro : 180/2.8 ais : 105mm f/1.8 ais : 24mm/2 ais
    {Sigma}; ->10-20/4-5.6 : 50/1.4 : 12-24/4.5-5.6II : 150-600mm|S
    {Tamron}; -> 17-50/2.8 : 28-75/2.8 : 70-200/2.8 : 300/2.8 SP MF : 24-70/2.8VC

    {Yongnuo}; -> YN35/2N : YN50/1.8N


  3. #43
    Member Warb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arthurking83 View Post
    Anyhow .. for us anarcho-anti-contra-subscriptionists .... the future is looking bleak!
    And for those of us in rural areas, where the glorious NBN satellite provides our only internet access and is so slow that the Windows Store simply doesn't work, meaning we have to take our PC to town and "borrow" an ADSL connection just to download Office 365, there really isn't a future to worry about!

  4. #44
    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    Warb. The world is indeed whacko for services to regional and rural areas. I like your prognosis. The only trouble is
    there may well be a future - full of feral profiteerists!! and other suitable icons.
    CC, Image editing OK.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by arthurking83 View Post
    To further add to the pain of subscription software, it seems that the next version of the Windows OS, Windows 10 may be paid for by subscription.

    THIS NEWS ITEM speculates that it may be by subscription anyhow .. no one really knows yet.

    I've been looking forward to Win10 as an update path from Win7 .. not because 7 is not usable(it sits just above XP in terms of usability and stability of all the OSes I've tried to date).
    Not so much for my desktop, but more so for the tablet I got years ago, which rarely gets used as Win7 is the wrong OS for a tablet. Win7 has tablet ability and features, but is not ideal for such devices.

    So now to make this tablet more userfriendly I may have to upgrade at some point.
    Once the preview version is more fully stable, I'm going to try it on the tablet to see how good/bad it operates.
    One of the nicer aspects of Win 10 is that it's minimum specs(although not officially revealed) appear to be lower than they are for Win8(and why I couldn't get Win8 on my tablet).

    It better be damned cheap tho! Win7 cost about $100 as an upgrade, or just a tad more as an OEM purchase(I always get the pro version) .. so $10/mth just isn't going to cut it.

    up to $50 per year is probably passable .. may have to cut my smokin in half(as the saying goes ) .... as long as it's available on two or three machines tho.


    Anyhow .. for us anarcho-anti-contra-subscriptionists .... the future is looking bleak!
    Not right according to this new item.

    http://www.zdnet.com/article/microso...one-8-1-users/
    The age of entitlement isn't over, it's just over there where you can't get to it.
    When several possibilities exist, the simplest solution is the best.
    "There are no rules" Bruce Barnbaum, The art of Photography
    Graham


  6. #46
    Member antony's Avatar
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    If the subscription is cheap enough (like Adobe's $9.99 plan for Lightroom + Photoshop), I am fine with it. Otherwise, I'd rather buy the software outright.
    The thing is, do I really need to have the latest version? Not always.
    My main Mac is still running OS X Mountain Lion 10.8.5, and I still fine with it. (I do have latest OS X Yosemite 10.10.2 on my MacBook Pro.)
    cameras: Sony A7 II, A7r, NEX-7, A350, HX50V; Canon EOS 70D | Flickr | a very happy Mac user

  7. #47
    Member bcys1961's Avatar
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    I have a stand alone version of LR5. I don't yet have Photoshop but thought I would get a copy. As an educator I can access the educational software prices . I thought PS maybe available as a stand alone version to edcuators but it looks like this is not the case. I can but a standalone version of Photoshop Elements for about $150 .


    So the question is , Is there anything I can do in PS that I cannot do in PS Elements.? Or , If I go with PS Elements , what will I be missing?

    If I can buy the standalone I prefer it as with about 12months or so I'm in front on cost and I will not upgrade for several years ( if at all.)

    I only do photography , not video and am not that much into photo manipulation , but thought that sooner or later I will want to get into to a bit of HDR blending , panorama stitching etc that cannot be done in LR . ( Although I use the Free MS ICE for stitching and it seems to work well.)
    The name is Brad ......

    OMD EM-1, OMD EM-5MkII, m.Zuiko 12-40mm Pro f2.8, m.Zuiko 40-150mm f2.8 Pro , m.Zuiko 60mm f2.8 Macro, m.Zuiko 17mm f1.8 , Lee Filters




  8. #48
    Perpetually Bewildered
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcys1961 View Post
    So the question is , Is there anything I can do in PS that I cannot do in PS Elements.? Or , If I go with PS Elements , what will I be missing?
    (Might be worth posting your question as a new thread as that will likely get more views than this old one...)

    There is quite a bit more capability in Photoshop CC (PSCC) than in Photoshop Elements (PSE), but of course it really comes down to what functionality you use. I'm not up to speed on the latest version of PSE but off the top of my head a few things in PSCC that are not (or not fully) in PSE:-
    - 16-bit processing (some 16-bit support in PSE but many functions require conversion to 8-bit)
    - smart objects / filters
    - channels / channel mixer
    - curves adjustment
    - content-aware fill
    - history brush
    (google these terms if you want more info - you should get a better explanation than what I could provide...)
    There is probably also more third-party 'stuff' around for PSCC than PSE - actions, brushes, tutorials, etc

    I find LR5 is usually enough to process most images, so I don't use PS a lot - mostly for things like healing/cloning which I find a bit cumbersome in LR.

    If you are interested in looking at a PS alternative you might like to check out onOne's Perfect Photo Suite (about $US80 for the stand-alone version).



    Cheers.
    Phil.

    Some Nikon stuff. I shoot Mirrorless and Mirrorlessless.


  9. #49
    Member formerly known as : Lplates Glenda's Avatar
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    I'd suggest downloading a trial version of elements and see if it meets your needs Brad.
    Glenda



  10. #50
    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    IMHO, that'd be $150 just spent, Brad.

    As I said to Renzo in another thread, even CS2 outdid Elements 11 when I looked at that some time back.

  11. #51
    Member bcys1961's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ameerat42 View Post
    IMHO, that'd be $150 just spent, Brad.

    As I said to Renzo in another thread, even CS2 outdid Elements 11 when I looked at that some time back.
    Thanks , I downloaded the free version of CS2 last night. Now I just need to get time to learn it . As usual ambition trumps reality !

  12. #52
    Arch-Σigmoid Ausphotography Regular ameerat42's Avatar
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    Just ask if you need, Brad.

  13. #53
    Ausphotography Regular wideangle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissionMan View Post
    I have seen this a lot in business. In many cases it works well for business because its an operating expense as opposed to a capital expense. Its easier to get approval for opex over capex. For small businesses it works well from an affordability perspective and ties in with the whole cloud model. I.e. I don't have to install a sharepoint environment on my own servers and then worry about the hardware getting too small when I grow, I just buy users as and when I need them and cancel when I don't.

    I don't mind the subscription model too much, I think it makes it more affordable for a lot of people. Adobe Create Suite is $2500 but people can get away with $50/month and always have the latest greatest version. You can also cancel when you don't need it so if you need it for 6 months, you can pay for it for that period and dump it when you're finished.

    I don't think its so true that you can cancel your subscrption when you feel like it. You can but talking to an Adobe rep they have said you will be up for 50% of the remaining months you have left. So if you have 6 months left you will have to pay up 50% off that total.
    please ask before PP my images

    "Life is what happens to you while your busy making other plans"

  14. #54
    Account Closed at member's request
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    Quote Originally Posted by wideangle View Post
    I don't think its so true that you can cancel your subscrption when you feel like it. You can but talking to an Adobe rep they have said you will be up for 50% of the remaining months you have left. So if you have 6 months left you will have to pay up 50% off that total.
    https://creative.adobe.com/plans?promoid=KLXMK

    Photographers plan is the only one that forces you to do it annual. All the other plans can be done month by month. They charge you more but if you have the requirement, you could easily do it for two months of the year if the requirement arises.

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