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Thread: Photographers are 'Creeps'

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    Administrator ricktas's Avatar
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    Photographers are 'Creeps'

    Over the past few years, and it seems to becoming more prevalent, photographers are being 'outed' as perverts, creeps, molesters and more. Now in some cases this is justified and court cases have ensued and some have been convicted of offences.

    What happens when a photographer finds themselves being accused of something they have not done?

    In the past, someone might tell a friend that such-n-such photographer tried to touch them up, or something and the generally accepted protocol was to report it to the police or authorities. Now, they tend to get online and post on Facebook etc first, then maybe go to the police as the second, third, fourth thing...if at all!

    Recently, I have had a friend accused of doing just this as a photographer. Even though he has been very careful, ensuring he only photographed models as part of a group, with both other photographers and models present at all times. He has had a facebook page made about him, calling him a 'photographer creep' and naming a series of things he has supposedly done to models. He is being defamed and had malicious gossip spread about him. Some of his models have gone onto the page to state they have not experienced anything but professionalism, but their posts get removed by the page owner. He and others have reported the page to facebook but as it supposedly does not breach Facebook's "community standards", at this time the page still exists.

    So this thread is to discuss how we as photographers can protect ourselves from accusations, and also give up ideas for ways to deal with, responses etc, if someone decides to call us (and it could be any of us) a pervert, creep etc.

    Please feel free to offer suggestions, report experiences and more in this thread. But please do not name a photographer unless you can link to specific legal action taken etc. We do not want to be part of the rumour mill here.
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  2. #2
    It's all about the Light!
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    Like any job nowadays you need to make sure you are not alone with the opposite gender or children.
    You do need to protect yourself from potential false accusations.

    Sadly mud sticks and some people will for all sorts of reasons not think twice about destroying another's reputation.
    Further, when false accusations are made their seems to be little done by the police/legal system once the truth is revealed.
    regards, Kym Gallery Honest & Direct Constructive Critique Appreciated! ©
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    My first suggestions are:

    1. Always use a contract.
    2. If working with minors, always have a guardian present ( and not the 18 year old boyfriend of the 16 year old model).

    One photographer I know has a security camera in the corner of his studio. Everything that happens in the studio is recorded. The models are told of this, in their contract, and it clearly states the security video will only ever be used if a dispute arises about the conduct of anyone in the studio.
    Last edited by ricktas; 13-10-2014 at 8:25pm.

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    It's all about the Light!
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    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ulted-cab.html


    Woman jailed for lying to police that taxi driver had sexually assaulted her in his cab after he proved his innocence with a smartphone app recording of their conversation
    This is the sort of society we live in.

    Things are compounded by the occasion 'bad apple' photographer who actually does mistreat models etc.

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    Member DacrimL's Avatar
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    What ever happened to the age old adage of INNOCENT until proven GUILTY?

    Now it seems that it is a he said she said type of scenario and the accused is made to suffer from all of it.......I think I'll stick to landscapes etc....

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    It's all about the Light!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DacrimL View Post
    What ever happened to the age old adage of INNOCENT until proven GUILTY?
    Now it seems that it is a he said she said type of scenario and the accused is made to suffer from all of it.......I think I'll stick to landscapes etc....
    If you're a bloke and a female accuses you of anything you are guilty ... and that is that way it is sadly
    Last edited by Kym; 13-10-2014 at 8:51pm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kym View Post
    If you're a bloke and a female accuses you of anything you are guilty ... and that is that way it is sadly
    Sure and hopefully we can get people making suggestions in this thread on ways we can protect ourselves from being accused, or at least prove our innocence, if this situation arose.

    I am hoping we can all have a productive dialogue on ways for photographers (and models) to protect themselves from both accusations and actual unsavoury events, occurring.

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    Ausphotography Regular Hawthy's Avatar
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    I am not a professional photographer, just an amateur, and can't comment on how photographers can specifically protect themselves from accusations of impropriety. So, I will speak more generally.

    The workplace changed over the past 30-odd years of my employment. While not all changes have been for the best, I think that women, people from different ethnic backgrounds, people with non-mainstream views on sexuality, etc. have all benefited from more open policies on diversity in the workplace. And the workplace has largely benefited from their inclusion.

    Being an Anglo Saxon heterosexual male, I had to adjust. For years now, I have had an absolute "no touch" policy with all colleagues. Not even a simple touch of the shoulder or wrist, be they male or female. I worked with some women for several years and we became quite friendly. We were all married and there was no sexual attraction either way. I resigned to take up a better position. On my last day, each woman gave me a heartfelt hug, which kind of made me wonder why we kept this professional distance for so many years. Maybe I transitioned from colleague to friend once I resigned. We are all friends now. When we meet, we will embrace and maybe I will wear a kiss on the cheek. I don't kiss back. I still have a no-touch policy with my current colleagues.

    I know that some blokes are serial pests who need to be controlled. And I don't want to go back to the 1980's when some poor woman had to make my coffee, type my notes, do most of my work , receive 70% of my meagre pay and then be asked to sit on the photocopier at the work Christmas Party. However, I sometimes wonder if we are missing out on a bit of tactile communication that softens the edges of society.

    As for photography:

    - If it is nude, have a number of third parties there (personally, I would only consider nude within the confines of a photography club or class, if at all)
    - If it is glamour / bikini - Again, unless you know the person really well always have a couple of other people around.
    - Street photography - Avoid places where there are children - such as pools, etc.
    - Fashion - Don't help out with clothes changes. Only see the models in states of full dress. Provide private change rooms.

    As I said, I am not a professional photographer so this is advice on areas which I have no "hands-on" knowledge. All I know is that if you treat people professionally and with respect you will usually receive respect back. Maybe "Hands-Off" is the safest policy.
    Last edited by Hawthy; 13-10-2014 at 10:21pm.

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    Way Down Yonder in the Paw Paw Patch jim's Avatar
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    It's a fact, you're all perverts.

    I've always suspected as much.

  10. #10
    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
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    My take on (a major) part of this issue is:

    That idiotic facebook virus that everyone seems to be so eager to propagate. The sooner it's eradicated, the better.
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    Member Nick Cliff's Avatar
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    Rick ,whatever happened to the law of libel ?,I am not legally expert however I was under the impression that unless you were in parliament and are being malicious, expect a letter in the mail ,because without proof that is what has obviously occurred to my mind. This is a very interesting development legally, hope your friend can recover his reputation now. Regards Nick.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Check this link if interested,http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/4...efamation.aspx , or https://www.facebook.com/pages/Inter...14997958526798 Regards Nick.
    Last edited by Nick Cliff; 13-10-2014 at 11:12pm.

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    Ausphotography Regular Hawthy's Avatar
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    One thing left out in my earlier post is photographing children. Maybe only photograph children with the full consent of the parents (both) and with at least one of them there at all times. Maybe a nice wide shot with everyone present to start. I mean contracts are all well and good but enforcing them in court is difficult and expensive. A few group shots might save some pain.

    Again, hands off is the rule. Stay away from pools and seek permission for sporting events. As for baby shots, personally, I would never photograph a child or a baby of any age with any part of any genitals displayed in any way at all.

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    Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Cliff View Post
    Rick ,whatever happened to the law of libel ?,I am not legally expert however I was under the impression that unless you were in parliament and are being malicious, expect a letter in the mail ,because without proof that is what has obviously occurred to my mind. This is a very interesting development legally, hope your friend can recover his reputation now. Regards Nick.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Check this link if interested,http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/4...efamation.aspx , or https://www.facebook.com/pages/Inter...14997958526798 Regards Nick.
    Sure, but once the rumour is out there, and spreading, the damage that can be done before a libel case is launched. This thread is about giving members tools and ideas to help with that.

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    Ausphotography irregular Mark L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricktas View Post
    .....
    Recently, I have had a friend accused of doing just this as a photographer. Even though he has been very careful, ensuring he only photographed models as part of a group, with both other photographers and models present at all times. He has had a facebook page made about him, calling him a 'photographer creep' and naming a series of things he has supposedly done to models. He is being defamed and had malicious gossip spread about him. Some of his models have gone onto the page to state they have not experienced anything but professionalism, but their posts get removed by the page owner. He and others have reported the page to facebook but as it supposedly does not breach Facebook's "community standards", at this time the page still exists.
    .....
    Unless you shoot them before they do it, I don't think there's any way of stopping idiots doing this.
    All the safeguards you can think of will not stop some fool with a vendetta making trouble.

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    First of all, let's consider what if it actually happened. Maybe not this guy, but whatever. The molested girl has no evidence, perverts being sneaky. She whines on Facebook. He sues. Where's the power lying in this situation?

    Tricky topic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    We could also treat this generically, assuming he's innocent. Then she's a bully, and it's a case of bullying. There's only one recommended way to sort out a bully: report it to every authority known to man and don't take any brush-offs from them. Follow through and persist. Endure the potential questioning of your role in it.

    But don't let bullies off. And never try to handle it alone or at their level. She probably honed her online bullying weapon in school days, and got away with it then, and expects to again.

    In answer to the essential question of the OP, you can't avoid being the victim of the bully when it really is a case of bullying. There are no strategies to deal with it, because real bullying is not a response to anything you are doing wrong.
    Last edited by Arg; 24-10-2014 at 6:40pm. Reason: tidiness

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