Do you feel threatened by terrorists in Australia?

[Grant S]

mmmm, I'm more worried about a budget emergency than terrorism in Australia.
What happened to that emergency?

Quick look over there. Squirrel!

[Kym]

What's ADL?

Australian Defence League - neo Nazis; also National Action and others

[ApolloLXII]

Australian Defence League - neo Nazis; also National Action and others

And of the same mind set as the idiot who painted the word "evil" on the outside of a mosque in Mareeba FNQ .

[Mark L]

Wow, some of this has been interesting, but it was a simple question.
Onto page six of this thread and only 36 votes in the poll answering the simple question.

Now, go post and CC some photos!!

[mudman]

Interesting thoughts Muddy but surprisingly at odds with how our current guest feels. Coming from Germany where they feel totally secure and safe with a well ordered life they suddenly feel rather vulnerable in this country where our successive govts have let in less than desirable residents and that is a perspective of someone who is merely passing through ----

i find that very surprising Andrew.
if one looks at Germany's 20th century history, what with world war 1 , hitler era, red guard and, excuse spelling errors, bader mienhoff.
1972 olympics masacar, i am sure i would feel safer here than in Germany.
given your statement re 'less desirable residents' i suggest there is a degree of ethnic phobia involved, considering there are 200+ different nationalities in Australia. how many does Germany have?

[Kym]

Wow, some of this has been interesting, but it was a simple question.

Not true. It is a vexed and complex question with huge overtones that go to the very fabric of our society and what should and should not be tolerated.

[I @ M]

Muddy, yes, there is quite a history of unrest with Germany over the years as there is with many countries but in the case of the young Germans we know most of those troubles in their country are history from days before they were born. It is more the "here and now" that is being considered in this post and in the young Germans minds.
They feel ( rightly or wrongly ) that their society is safe and well ordered at the present but here in Australia today they don't see the same level of security.

You have it entirely wrong if you feel that I have any ethnic phobia when I say that the past and present governments have allowed "less desirable residents" in. My view of less desirable residents is free from any overtones of nationality, ethnicity or religion. There have been some really bad decisions made about entry, residency and even allowing convicted criminals to remain in this country. This country has allowed entry to individuals, some of them commit crimes by themselves, others join larger groups of like minded people and conspire to and commit crimes. Some of those groups comprise of people from the same ethnic background, others comprise of people who follow the same religion and then there are those who have neither of the aforementioned criteria but form criminal groups.

The government needs to assess and closely scrutinise individuals to weed out those who are likely to cause problems and when they miss one and that person refuses to live by the standards of their adopted country, they should act swiftly and decisively to remove them from this society.

[mudman]

Muddy, yes, there is quite a history of unrest with Germany over the years as there is with many countries but in the case of the young Germans we know most of those troubles in their country are history from days before they were born. It is more the "here and now" that is being considered in this post and in the young Germans minds.
They feel ( rightly or wrongly ) that their society is safe and well ordered at the present but here in Australia today they don't see the same level of security.

You have it entirely wrong if you feel that I have any ethnic phobia when I say that the past and present governments have allowed "less desirable residents" in. My view of less desirable residents is free from any overtones of nationality, ethnicity or religion. There have been some really bad decisions made about entry, residency and even allowing convicted criminals to remain in this country. This country has allowed entry to individuals, some of them commit crimes by themselves, others join larger groups of like minded people and conspire to and commit crimes. Some of those groups comprise of people from the same ethnic background, others comprise of people who follow the same religion and then there are those who have neither of the aforementioned criteria but form criminal groups.

The government needs to assess and closely scrutinise individuals to weed out those who are likely to cause problems and when they miss one and that person refuses to live by the standards of their adopted country, they should act swiftly and decisively to remove them from this society.

Andrew, I was not implying that you have some ethnic phobia, but that your German friend seems to by the statements you have reported him/her saying
i agree whole heartedly that Australia has to strengthen the screening protocols of prospective migrants to try and reduce the incidence
of importing the fundamentalist types. don't know if that can really be done, but it would be worth a try.

[ricktas]

The government needs to assess and closely scrutinise individuals to weed out those who are likely to cause problems and when they miss one and that person refuses to live by the standards of their adopted country, they should act swiftly and decisively to remove them from this society.

Agree, and some wonder why our successive governments have been concerned about refugees who destroy all their identity information, prior to trying to access this country.

It would be interesting to know of those taking into custody in recent days, how many were born here, how many moved here, etc. Simply for a show of statistics on the matter.

[phild]

Some excellent points and debate in this thread, I can't agree with Steve's comment

The point I am trying to make is that this is a human thing. We can be barbaric people irrespective of religion or race or political persuasion.

I can't recall, at least in my lifetime, a worldwide movement intent on killing innocent people for no apparent reason other than religious hatred.

That said, we need to look at the circumstances that have allowed the growth of this movement, I believe that interference by the the Russians, US and it's allies in the affairs of these countries has resulted in destabilisation and militarisation by groups who probably wouldn't otherwise gained a foothold.

Afghanistan and Iraq are prime examples, military intervention has turned both countries in to basket cases.

As for the terrorists being dumb, I think there's an abundance of stupidity on all sides, the baddies take action, then often hide in a refugee camp or school which then gets bombed by the "good guys", the result, more hatred, the baddies gain each and every time there is an inappropriate reaction.

I think the current strategy of air strikes against militants is flawed and will only create more unrest and hatred, as someone pointed out the "war on terror" has created more terrorists not less.

[Steve Axford]

Seems to me, Phil, that you agree that we can all be barbaric. On the religious question, I think to categorise ISIL as a religious group is incorrect. They are a military group that just happens to invoke a religion. They are much more akin to the Nazis than any religious freedom fighters. Most of our more senior government officials seem to agree with this view.

- - - Updated - - -

....... when I say that the past and present governments have allowed "less desirable residents" in. My view of less desirable residents is free from any overtones of nationality, ethnicity or religion. There have been some really bad decisions made about entry, residency and even allowing convicted criminals to remain in this country.

Andrew, this is very amusing considering who were the first European settlers in this country.

[ricktas]

... On the religious question, I think to categorise ISIL as a religious group is incorrect. They are a military group that just happens to invoke a religion...

But this naming and categorisation is what they decided to do themselves. They aligned their name with Islam. If you look through the list of terrorist organisations, you would be hard pushed to find one with Catholic, Christian, Buddhist in the name.

This invocation of the Islam name for military groups appears to be all to common to just be a co-incidence. Therefore it is no wonder people are concerned about the religion. Whilst most religions have their cult-like groups (Jones Town / Waco), Islam seems to attract quite a few militia style cults within. When these cults/military groups align themselves to a religion (any religion), people have a right to feel concerned. Islam seems to attract is over-share of them, sadly for those who are muslim who have no desire other than to be peaceful, integral members of our community, their religion is being trashed from within.

[I @ M]

Andrew, this is very amusing considering who were the first European settlers in this country.

Deliberately so, I am sure that the original inhabitants of this land considered the colonising power terrorists and history shows that indeed the early governments were less than humane in their dealings with the indigenous population. Equally so were many other countries in their treatment of native populations when attempting to impose either their societal or religious beliefs in lands far away from their "own".

Steve, times have moved on and a lot of the world lives relatively peacefully and with reasonably well structured societies so I would be interested to hear your views on what the bunch of murdering thugs operating under the name of the Islamic state are.

Are they members of an oppressed race or religion?
Are they soldiers of the prophet sworn to rid the world of non Islam believers?
Are they exhorting Muslim believers in Australia to march through the streets with banners stating that Sharia law will be the law of Australia one day?
Are they simply a PR machine who utilises the shock tactic of beheadings to draw attention to their cause?
Are they truly non secular but just happen to attract support in the form of flag flying and banners by Muslim inhabitants of Australia?

[Steve Axford]

But this naming and categorisation is what they decided to do themselves. They aligned their name with Islam. If you look through the list of terrorist organisations, you would be hard pushed to find one with Catholic, Christian, Buddhist in the name.

True enough - today. But if we look through history, even just a few years ago, things were quite different. Northern Ireland was a good example of this - Protestant vs Catholic, or was it really? The Christian churches have enough blood on their hands - but were most of the wars really over religion or was it more simple than that - power! That's what ISIL is about too. Power! And no, we don't want them to win, but we should understand who we are fighting and not fall into the trap of attacking people within our own society instead of the real enemy. I think ISIL is a relatively easy target - all of Islam is much more difficult and they would feel rightly aggrieved at our attack.

[I @ M]

And no, we don't want them to win, but we should understand who we are fighting and not fall into the trap of attacking people within our own society instead of the real enemy.

As far as I am concerned, it IS the people within our society that are directly and indirectly supporting ISIL who need to be removed from this society!!!!

[Steve Axford]

Deliberately so, I am sure that the original inhabitants of this land considered the colonising power terrorists and history shows that indeed the early governments were less than humane in their dealings with the indigenous population. Equally so were many other countries in their treatment of native populations when attempting to impose either their societal or religious beliefs in lands far away from their "own".

Steve, times have moved on and a lot of the world lives relatively peacefully and with reasonably well structured societies so I would be interested to hear your views on what the bunch of murdering thugs operating under the name of the Islamic state are.

Are they members of an oppressed race or religion?
Are they soldiers of the prophet sworn to rid the world of non Islam believers?
Are they exhorting Muslim believers in Australia to march through the streets with banners stating that Sharia law will be the law of Australia one day?
Are they simply a PR machine who utilises the shock tactic of beheadings to draw attention to their cause?
Are they truly non secular but just happen to attract support in the form of flag flying and banners by Muslim inhabitants of Australia?

My views are quite clear. None of the above. They a a bunch of thugs very akin to the Nazis in methods. They rely on propaganda, fear and terror. They happen to come from a part of the world that is very oppressed (for a variety of reasons) but which has almost unlimited money for guns. ISIL is the first freedom fighters I have seen that seem to be easily able to buy tanks and anything else they want. Without that money they wouldn't be a problem, except for their local villages (the money come from oil which is a chance of nature and which we happen to pay a lot for). Why should we believe them that this is an Islamic inspired war? There are about 500,000 muslims in Australia of which 60 have gone to fight with them. That's about 0.01%.

[Nick Cliff]

The Huffington Post news site has an interesting article by an ex MI 6 authority on this subject with many warnings about the public misconceptions and what he suspects is the long term Arab game plan with western forces in the IS caliphate battles to come ,regards Nick .

[ameerat42]

...The Huffington Post news...

Never heard of 'em, Nick, (nor they of me, I hope!!). Do you have a link to this potentially interesting article?
(A search on Huff and Puff yielded little of the ilk.)

[Nick Cliff]

Try http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alasta...b_5843830.html

regards Nick

[Mark L]

Wow, some of this has been interesting, but it was a simple question.

Not true. It is a vexed and complex question with huge overtones that go to the very fabric of our society and what should and should not be tolerated.

Yes true, it was a simple question.
If I was interested in the very fabric of our society and what should and should not be tolerated, I'd have started a thread about that.