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Thread: New point-and-shoot?

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    Member BillW's Avatar
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    New point-and-shoot?

    Hi guys. My wife and I last weekend brought out a box of prints of a lengthy European trip we were lucky to take (pre kids!) in the early - mid 80s. We were blown away by the clarity of the shots. They bring everything back in brilliant colour, reminding us of exactly what we saw. And so, I am looking to replicate that beautiful camera in the digital age.

    Our camera (I still have it - couldn't bear to throw it away - but it hasn't been used for 20 years) is a CANON AF35M.

    We could be driving along, RHD van in a LHD country, see an image we wanted to capture, hold the camera to the interior of the windscreen and, still in motion, point and shoot. Faultless! The manual built-in flash (pre red-eye) was great to about 3 metres. The Canon lens had a ring to adjust ASA, it was fixed 38mm 1:2.8. It is currently set at 200ASA, so I must have chosen that for the northern light. Screwed onto an outer ring is a 48mm Skylight (1B) Hoya filter. Altogether it weighs 500g including the strap.

    I don't get much photography done these days. Partly this is due to time and commitments. But also, I have a beautiful CANON 7D and some USM lenses that always seems to be at home when I want them elsewhere! I think if I had an uncomplicated, compact and lightweight camera like my old one above, I would store it somewhere in the car and take it with me often.

    Any ideas and suggestions please!?

    Bill

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    Member torro's Avatar
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    look at the sony rx 100 series , there are 3 models, check out the early models. They are much cheaper then the current model.

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    Ausphotography Regular Brian500au's Avatar
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    I always carry a Canon S110 - small and compact but still gives a great little photo. I usually set it in "P" mode so either my wife or myself can just grab and shoot with it.
    www.kjbphotography.com.au

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    Thanks so far. Meant to state that my now less-than-young eyesight favours having an adjustable viewfinder. To see a back screen in most light situations requires me to fish around for my glasses, which somewhat defeats the see, point and shoot philosophy (I don't need glasses except for reading).

    The Canon S110 looks great except for this, and the price point is more interesting.

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    Ausphotography Regular swifty's Avatar
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    A few points are jumping out at me from your back story and is pointing me towards recommending a Fuji X100T (newly announced but not yet available).

    Your old P&S had a fixed focal fast aperture lens.
    You like the colours you got from film
    You want something lightweight
    To be honest a lot of cameras these days are highly configurable and you should be able to get the results you want but it takes varying amounts of effort to get there.

    The X100T uses an APS-C sensor, not quite the 135 film format size but its gonna be close in terms of the look. (The only 'full frame' fixed lens option these days are the Sony RX1 series but they are quite dear.)
    It has a fast 35mm equiv FOV f2 lens
    Built in flash with red-eye reduction
    Weighs 440g
    Excellent straight out of camera jpegs with many 'film' simulation modes. Other people's opinions may vary but I'm a big fan of Fuji colours and I've read particularly good comments about the new 'classic chrome' film simulation that replicates Kodachrome.

    Andrew (I@M) and forum member Kaiser here use an X100s and have user reviews posted in the product review section. Fuji has a habit of updating firmware frequently so the classic chrome film simulation mode might make it into past models. The X100s could be well worth considering if the X100T is out of budget. They are actually quite close in specs sharing the same basic sensor and lens but the X100T has improved on the Viewfinder experience.

    I'd definitely recommend you check it out when it reaches stores. Its the 3rd generation in its line and looks to be quite the refined product.
    Nikon FX

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    The Fuji looks exactly what I had in mind, but it is $1,300 US. See http://www.dpreview.com/products/fuj...fujifilm_x100t. But I do like the sound of the chrome setting.

    How about the Canon G16? Just asking. Canon are offering $50 rebate til end September so probably a replacement due. It seems to have a lot of the same dial settings as my 7D, easing the learning curve. And as Brian expresses, I'm sure it can be left in a point-and-shoot setting for quick shots.
    Last edited by BillW; 11-09-2014 at 5:56pm.

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    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
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    I second Swifty's suggestion.

    Have used the X100(Andrew's) briefly, and while it's ergonomics aren't for me(taste and physical preferences on my part) .. it is a great little camera.
    It is a bit pricey at around $1K or so .. but if quality is something you don't want to skimp on, it may end up being cheaper than a lot of other cameras of similar size and specs due to it's very high quality output.
    i.e. you will be less likely to want to update to a newer model in the short to medium term.
    Nikon D800E, D300, D70s
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    {Tamron}; -> 17-50/2.8 : 28-75/2.8 : 70-200/2.8 : 300/2.8 SP MF : 24-70/2.8VC


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    Ausphotography Regular swifty's Avatar
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    Also, its Photokina time next week and there will be a flurry of announcements leading up to the show. We're in the midst of it.
    I'd just hang out a week or so to see what pops up. Even if the new ones are out of budget, out-going models will be on run-out sales soon.

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    How about the Fuji x30 as a compromise, saving nearly $500?
    http://www.dpreview.com/previews/fuj...e&ref=features

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    Ausphotography Regular swifty's Avatar
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    You can also have a look at the Fuji X30 if the X100 series is out of budget.
    It uses a small (2/3") sensor but still largish for a compact P&S
    but
    you get fast 4X zoom lens.
    You also get the film simulation modes including the new 'classic chrome'.
    http://www.dpreview.com/previews/fujifilm-x30

    - - - Updated - - -

    lol.. you beat me to it. Hadn't refreshed my browser before replying.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just a few more comments. In the high end compact P&S segment, the 1" sensor is where all the action is.
    The best currently available are the RX100 series as Torro suggested but they have been expensive since they were essentially without peers. Although quick successive iterations (mk I to III) have brought prices down on the earlier versions that are still very good.
    This is where the X30 falls short slightly in that the sensor is smaller. But it has a lot of other things going for it.
    But we're likely going to see 1" sized sensor premium compacts in the Canon G line and Panasonic LX line among others.

    But not to be confused, the X100 series can't be compared equally because the quality is up there with the best of APS-C sized DSLRs and mirrorless cameras, and arguably better because of the matched lens. Hence why the big price difference.

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    Ausphotography Regular bitsnpieces's Avatar
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    I also support the suggestions of the Fujifilms.

    The RX100 series are great (MIII is only good if they update it properly), but (although I haven't used the Fujifilms - I did use an older version of them) and I also guarantee you'll be happy with them, with regards to quality (it's just they're a little big for a point and shoot though).
    David Tran

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    I have to keep reminding myself that my old Canon was not an expensive camera - it had a good bright lens and was foolproof. Also, as stipulated, I am talking about a unit to leave under the car seat (as far away from heat as possible). So, yes, the part of me that habitually buys quality gear does like the Fujis, or the Sonys, but I am not going to leave a $700 camera, or more, lying around. So, much as I'd love one of these units (and may get for home), I feel I am still looking for a knockabout replacement for this old Canon. Even the x30 is around $700. Thinking of it, that might be what I'd pay for a new phone (reluctantly). But having said that, is there nothing recommendable around the $300-400 mark? There still is the Canon G16 for about $400 less $50. Anything else remotely in that price point of the same or better output?

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    I'll throw the proverbial cat among the pigeons here. Back in late 2012, I paid a visit to my native South Africa, taking all my Olympus 4/3 camera gear with me. While in Cape Town, I decided that I needed a P&S camera and so went out and bought a Canon PowerShot S100 (http://www.dpreview.com/search/?quer...uct=canon_s100). This little beast had two major attractions for me:- As I always process my photos (I can't stand skew horizons.), I required a P&S that stores files in raw format. The S100 also has built-in GPS, which is great for taking pics when travelling. I was very pleased with its performance until the very helpful people at OR Tambo Airport helped themselves to both my TomTom GPS and the S100.

    On return to Australia, the S100 no longer being on the market, as the Olympus XZ2 had just been released, I bought one: http://www.dpreview.com/articles/648...mera-roundup/5 It has an Olympus Zuiko Lens with an effective 28-112mm zoom range, which is also quite fast (f1.8-2.5). An electronic viewfinder is available as an optional extra. I notice that they are currently available in Australia for in the vicinity of $300.

    The quality of this little camera continues to amaze me. I just wish it had a GPS! One down side:- It is just a bit big to be "pocketable", unless you have baggy pockets. Mine lives in my briefcase.
    Last edited by griffljg; 11-09-2014 at 9:00pm. Reason: Additional comment
    Cheers

    Larry
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    Ausphotography Regular bitsnpieces's Avatar
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    Hi Bill,

    Given the new information now about how you plan on using it, I would personally recommend the Sony DSC-WX350
    http://www.sony.com.au/product/dsc-wx350
    You can find it cheaper online of course

    I've used the WX300 - it's no DSLR, it's not "good ol' days" camera, but it was a camera I was happy with nonetheless. Worthy it works well for you or not, is another story.

    The only reason I recommend this is because I liked the quality the camera provided.

    Though I haven't tried the Canon PowerShot G16, nor all of the latest and greatest from Canon, I have not been impressed with many of their PowerShot and IXUS range from the past few years.
    Again, this being said, the WX300 wasn't perfect, but I was more impressed with it more than the Canons.

    Just to throw it out there, I've had a Samsung Smart WB350F before
    http://www.samsung.com/au/consumer/c...EC-WB350FBPWAU
    Which I thought was a nice camera. It's a little bigger than the WX300 (and WX350), but it can function like a DSLR, allowing you to run in manual mode and stuff. I really enjoyed it's dual recording fuction, that is, record video while taking unlimited photos at the same time, and then when playing back, if you find a shot you like, extract an image from the video in camera. But... wasn't quality wasn't anything special... Who knows what their current range is like (WX3000 sounds to be decent) and the price is still close within your budget, sort of.

    Anyways, this is just my spin on things. I think you should definitely give the G16 a try, if you can demo it instore, because I like the fact that it has a hotshoe for extra attachments, unless this is something you're not interested in, then you can look into the WX350 too)

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    Member bushbikie's Avatar
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    I'm a Canon fan-boy from way back. When I was looking around for a P&S to take with me when hiking I settled on the G1X - almost APS-C sized sensor - capable of capturing in RAW format - f2.8~5.8 zoom lens with a variable focal length of 15.1 to 60.4mm (35mm equivalent of 28-112mm) - IMHO very good quality glass, and Image Stabilisation - a LOT lighter than my DSLR.

    I use the rear screen when shooting, as I'm sure most other G1X owners do. The optical viewfinder is next to useless - no info in the viewfinder, and when shooting wide the viewfinder adds a lovely compositional element (called the lens barrel) into the bottom left hand corner of the viewfinder. To give credit to the optical viewfinder it does have a diopter adjustment of -3 to +1.

    All in all, for what I want the G1X to do, it does it admirably.

    If you want to have a look at some of the images taken by users of the G1X then have a stickybeak here: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/....php?t=1151374
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    Wanted: The list is long.......so very long........(sighs)
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    Thanks all. Going to a few shops today and taking your notes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbikie View Post

    All in all, for what I want the G1X to do, it does it admirably.

    If you want to have a look at some of the images taken by users of the G1X then have a stickybeak here: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/....php?t=1151374
    Some interesting comparisons here: http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-g1x-ii/canon-g1x-ii-image-quality.htm

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    Been to the megamall. Overall a disappointing experience due to all shops mainly having not the latest models, or all makes. But it was instructive.

    The first report is that I like a chunkier style. I found the Sony RX series too small and fiddly. Does that resonate with any of you? JB had all of this series up to Mk III.

    The one I liked most of their stock was a Fuji x10 selling for under $500 with leather case thrown in. It was their last one, out of the showcase. I'd have loved to be able to handle an x30 but no shop had it, or even an x20 in stock. But, presuming it is the same shape and size, I can rely on reports and reviews to fill in the picture (a pun, I know).

    Over the aisle, Camera Shop had no Fujis, a Canon G1x (not Mk II) for $499 that I could play with and a Nikon P7800 at $599. These were an interesting comparison, in that no-one has recommended a Nikon, so I know little about it. It was about the same format as the Canon but noticeably lighter. Reading many reviews, I find myself going off the Canons, not particularly impressed with their range of test photos.

    I have a history of waiting for the best and buying more than I probably need. I waited years before plunging on my 7D. Given this, the odds are that I may go for an x100t even though it is probably double or more than I intended to spend. It seems to answer my specs the best, Fuji have been listening and improving it over the years, and models with similar specs will not be getting any cheaper soon.

    But I will try to give the x30 a go too. One reviewer of the x20 liked the improvement in speed of AF over the x10, which is very important, although he didn't think the newer Screen Recognition mode was an improvement on the previous EXR mode. I wonder if the x30 has improved in this respect, if needed.

    That is where I am at the moment. Won't be buying for at least a few weeks, and further advice and comments most welcome.

    Bill

    - - - Updated - - -

    A nagging thought in my head. My old Canon (at the head of this thread) had no zoom. And I am even now marvelling at its prints, almost always 7x5, my default favourite size. It was just a superb lens exposing excellent film.

    Are there cameras to recommend that meet a somewhat direct comparison, i.e. no zoom, excellent sensor? Haven't some of the most iconic photographers always shot like this? I am not really a photographer of panoramas, flowers or birds. I admire those of you who are. My shots are more of people, streetscapes or memories.
    Last edited by BillW; 12-09-2014 at 6:26pm.

  18. #18
    Ausphotography Regular bitsnpieces's Avatar
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    I would say that the Fujifilm x10, x20, and x30 are similar sizes - can't remember which one it was that my friend had, but I liked it better than the Sony WX300 I had (I only preferred the WX300 due to size, but quality wise, my friend's Fujifilm was the go - the quality of WX350 will be similar to the WX300)

    If you're happy for the price of the x30, then you should get it. If not, the x20 is pretty much the same, just less gizmos like no flippy screen, x20 battery life isn't as good as x30, x20 uses optical viewfinder were as x30 uses electrical.
    The lens is perfect for what you've put down as that's the range it covers, 28-105mm, f/2-2.8

    The x20 and x100t look to have very similar features, other than improved OVF on the x100t, slightly better buffers for burst shots, etc, all in all, they're fairly even and I would say the quality is just as good (I don't own either and this is speculation - true, x100t has a bigger sensor and runs at bigger megapixels, but the size of the receivers may inevitably still be the same as what's in the x20/30, so quality would be very similar)

    I would go for the x20 (x30 because I like EVF, but for budget purposes) because I personally like the idea of having a 28-105mm lens, rather than a fixed lens. I like being able to zoom and as mentioned, you like taking photos of people, having that slight zoom does make a difference depending on what you're trying to do. And f/2.8 at the tele end isn't that bad is it? That's my spill. I think I'll end here as this is as much as I can offer.

    Also, don't be afraid to shop online, you'll be able to get better prices - found the Fujifilm x20 at $409 at Techrific - based in Victoria.
    Topbuy who has a NSW store has it at $420.
    http://www.shopbot.com.au/pp-fujifil...ce-410956.html

    Good luck Bill
    Last edited by bitsnpieces; 12-09-2014 at 8:00pm.

  19. #19
    Ausphotography Regular Brian500au's Avatar
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    ok I am going to throw a real curve ball at you - what about a Canon SL1 with a 40mm pancake lens? As I originally mentioned previously I bought a Canon S110 to keep in my pocket - but like yourself I am not a big fan of EVF (and my wife is less of a fan).

    I recently picked up one of these SL1's for under $500 with a 18-55mm STM zoom. I am looking around now for the 40mm pancake so it will be even more compact. If you were considering the size of the G series canons then this is around the same size.

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    Excellent curve ball Brian. I've since watched some youtube videos of both the camera and the lens. From these, I think I will reject the camera but may invest in the lens to use with my 7D. It may entice me to use that camera more! Small as the SL1 is, for my specs it is too fat, or thick, if you know what I mean. A Fuji x20 for example can be slid into a jacket pocket without too much problem but not, I think, the SL1.

    For the sake of my question, which may be something I don't necessarily want, are there any fixed focus point and shoot cameras - with a good sensor - and a viewfinder - but less than Leica prices?

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