Wonder what Juliar is thinking?

[Mark L]

"Jeez, I only broke one promise."
"Phoney Tony and Smokin' Joe might have stopped the votes."

Be kind and have fun.

[Duane Pipe]

Life Sucks Mark. One gives a little and the next take the lot!

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Hasn't Tony made some enemies

[Kym]

General Warning: This thread has the potential to get heated, keep the discussion on topic, non personal and legal (no gun threats, even in jest)

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1226923077146

WHEN Labor realised it had no prospect of surviving the 2013 election it made a series of announcements that will haunt the country for years to come. Labor said there would be an aggressive ramp-up in spending on schools, hospitals, and disability sometime after 2017. The date was carefully chosen. Budget estimates are published over four years. Labor knew it would never have to show the spending increase and, more importantly, how it would be paid for, in any Budget it delivered.
These promises were popular — better schools, better hospitals, disability treatment for all, and what’s more came at no discernible cost because the costs were outside the then Budget forecasts. It allowed Labor to look visionary. If the programs were ever delivered then Labor could claim credit for “Labor” reforms — Gonski funding, the NDIS and so on.
If they weren’t, then that would prove the heartless Liberals had cut them to pieces.
It was surreal. Labor couldn’t deliver promises in the short term — like a Budget surplus in June 2013 — so it started making promises for the long term. It couldn’t deliver Budget promises when it was in office so it began making them for a time when it would be out of office.
It is common for retreating enemies to blow up supplies and infrastructure so as to deny them to enemies that are advancing against them. Labor took that approach — quite rational if you don’t mind the damage it does.
As the Coalition advanced on the September 2013 election, Labor completely booby-trapped the forward estimates of the Budget.
At the time, I recommended the Coalition not commit itself to this unaffordable spending.
Labor was making promises it knew it would never have to keep. Giving bipartisan support would leave the burden of trying to do the unattainable squarely on the shoulders of only one party — the incoming government.
Eventually the Coalition committed itself to four years of the Gonski funding and to the NDIS, but with some leeway as to the time when full services will be introduced.
In this Budget, the new government has now announced it will not be delivering Labor’s supposed increases for schools and hospitals over the period from 2018 to 2025.
It is being attacked for “savage” cuts of $80 billion.

Personally I think the budget could be done better, but in the end everyone wants something for nothing, which can't fly.

[Mark L]

Juliar might be thinking, "Yep, fair enough Kym. Though Tony knew all that before he made such black and white promises before the last election."

Of cause I'm only guessing what she's thinking, though I'd encourage others to guess, since that's the thread tittle.

[bobt]

The fundamental issue in my view is the astonishingly blatant manner in which Abbott has betrayed the voting public. Hypocrisy is becoming the hallmark of his "reign" when he now does exactly what he criticised Labor for doing, except 10 times worse!.

I cannot see how one can trust anyone who makes such clear and unequivocal statements before an election, and then immediately afterwards does exactly the opposite. One expects a certain amount of truth bending from politicians, but such total dishonesty is pretty much unprecedented.

I will be more convinced about political fairness when they collectively make the same "adjustments" to their own salaries as they do for pensioners. If the CPI is a fair mechanism to use, then it should be applied to politicians wages as well; if lower income earners are to absorb permanent reductions, then MPs should also have permanent reductions.

This whole "budget emergency" is a fairy tale created to justify Abbott's actions, when all indicators point to an economy which is one of the world's best! If you strip away the propaganda from both sides of politics, and rely on the objectivity of independent, qualified observers and economists, it is pretty clear that this budget is unnecessary, unfair and unjustifiable.

[Ionica]

According to a Queensland (?) politician recently, their salaries are determined by an independent body and they are 'obliged' to accept the determination. Must be hard for them.

[Granville]

Wonder how obliged they would feel if they independent body determined that they would go down.

[Duane Pipe]

The health system is struggling now without further cuts. And what harm will come of the cuts education?


I agree bobt

This whole "budget emergency" is a fairy tale created to justify Abbott's actions, when all indicators point to an economy which is one of the world's best! If you strip away the propaganda from both sides of politics, and rely on the objectivity of independent, qualified observers and economists, it is pretty clear that this budget is unnecessary, unfair and unjustifiable.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/money...-1226416182460

[Nick Cliff]

There was an interesting response to a radio interview on 4BC in Queensland with Clive Palmer discussing politicians superannuation ,the ABC QLD radio internet discussion that followed the interview attracted at least 3000 responses !

[fenderstrat1963]

Maybe she's realising the wisdom of the truism:

How do you tell when a politician is lying?

Their lips are moving

[Bennymiata]

I think that politicians should have to pass the SAME means test as old age pensioners!
Why should we pay super rich people ANY sort of pension?
Most of our ex-PM's are worth tens of millions, yet we pay them a HUUUUGE pension and other benefits!

Mind you, as Maggie Thatcher said "Socialism is wonderful, until you run out of other peoples' money."

[Lance B]

We are in debt to the tune of $300 Billion and that every man woman and child owes approx $15,000 each even before they get out of bed. And remember, this is YOUR debt, not the governments debt so how do you like being lumped with a debt of $15,000 each which we have to pay back at some stage? This debt has been forecast to blow out to over $600 Billion if nothing is done about it, or almost $30,000 each!! To think that this is a good thing, just look at Greece, Spain, Italy etc, all basket case economies thinking they could just keep borrowing money hand over fist living the high life and hoping it would all just go away. Youth unemployment in Greece is something like 25%!! The thing is, they have the luxury of Germany and the rest of the EU to help bail them out, we have nobody to do that for us. What I object to is that the (previous) government racked up this debt spending money and partying like teenagers being left in charge of the house when the parents have gone on holiday and now it is the adults that have to now fix it. I wouldn't mind so much if we had something to show for it, but there is NOTHING, not a damn thing we have to show for it. No new roads, no new hospitals, no fast train, no major infrastructure other than a white elephant NBN which still hasn't been finished and is destined to blow out to $100 Billion. Where the hell did the money go?

[Sifor]

Healthy economy, low taxes, good services. Choose two.

Only thing in the budget that is of concern to me is indexing the HECS debt to the 10yr govt bond, I'll be getting rid of mine ASAP before it is introduced in 2016... I am undecided on university deregulation, as I can see arguments on both sides have merit.

GP co payment is a measure I support. Funny how attendance rates have plummeted (despite the levy not even applying yet!)... people can't be that damn sick. I acknowledge a very small number of people might find $7 to be difficult, however the protection measures built in should adequately provide for them. Pensioners and disabled should be exempt however. For everyone else, I have no sympathy... it's 2 coffees worth, harden up. The medical research fund is a great idea provided it's not plundered by cash strapped governments.

I'm glad foreign aid was cut back, charity starts at home after all. If our country is prospering, I have no problem helping other countries in need, however we need to get our own house in order first.

Ultimately we can't keep going down the path of entitlement. While I regard Howard as one of the greatest PMs Australia had, he carries some of the blame for this welfare state we find ourselves in... the previous labor mob made the situation worse. Fact is, welfare is to keep you going, not to provide a glamorous lifestyle. Far too many of my friends at Uni who are on youth allowance don't work yet manage to go on overseas holidays on the gov'ts coffers. Same with newstart, it's a rort. Glad the DSP is being looked at but really not going far enough - if you're disabled fine, but the 'I got a bad back' is usually a load of tosh.

Australians are just to used to the good life. As the mining boom progresses from the investment stage to the production stage, we're no longer in a position to throw money around like it's never going to end.

Oh and if I hear one more idiot who screams out 'WHY TONY DID YOU BUY $100BN OF F-35'S!!111111!!1' I will poke their eyes out. Same with Tony Burke saying 'BROKEN PROMISE', what about the carbon tax?

Infrastructure building is the medicine Australia needs, as it ensures spending does not fall away while creating jobs and providing for the country. Hope Tony lives up to his reputation as 'the infrastructure PM'.

Hopefully the gov't can negotiate with Crazy Clive to get the budget through the senate....

[geoffsta]

This is Julia's effort, and that's with the carbon tax that she wasn't going to have.
All is good when we get the opportunity to take. The hard part is giving it back. Politicians don't run the country. Greed does..

australia-government-budget.jpg

[Mark L]

"I'm glad I didn't have to deal with Clive."

[aussie girl]

It seems the every time a Labor Government gets in, they try to improve health, education and social services, the Liberals rip them to shreds. Don't forget that when Howard was in he had a huge surplus, from memory about 60 Billion??? but by the time he was voted out, he had spent half of that surplus on carrots to dangle before the voters. All these schemes came out of the woodwork, baby bonus, paid parental leave, just to mention a couple. This left labor with bugger all to put their plans in motion. If the government of the day gave up trying to bad mouth the other side and each party cooperated with each other, just think what could be acheived. Most of this debt has been generated from government overspending. We (the tax payers) are still paying salaries (pensions) to politicians who retired decades ago, and their spouses, not to mention their gold air ticket, their super funds, which they can access immediately, no working till they're 70, and the lurks just go on and on and on. It is time the pig in the trough got put back in the pig pen

[bobt]

There are a lot of misconceptions out there about Labor's debt, and whilst some spending was inappropriate, not as much as Liberal voters seem to think. The fact remains that under labor our economy remained one of the best in the world, and the various billions of dollars people like to scream about are not actually out of proportion when looked at in relation to global and national budgets. However, let's face it - if you are one of those who believes in Tony and voted for him, then facts and logic are not likely to change your mind.

What the problem is, in my mind, is the structure of western governments. Having two opposing parties means that a hugely disproportionate amount of time and energy is wasted in arguing with each other and preparing for the 4 yearly elections. If you examine the focus of both parties, it is largely defensive and in no way collaborative or based on compromise. If that wasted energy were to be directed to actually creating practical solutions rather than political ones, we would all be better off. One look at a parliamentary sitting illustrates how futile the process is - and it provides an absolutely dreadful role model for our children.

We elect people who are supposed to be our representatives, yet who are in no way representing anything except the party line. We need a truly representative government where we vote for someone we believe in rather than someone who represents a political party. They should truly represent our wishes and vote accordingly. Partly line voting only exists because there are parties. Similarly, we should not have ministers in charge of portfolios who are not experts in their fields. If someone is, say, the Minister for Transport, then he should be someone from that area - an expert in transport. Under the current system, any politician can be put in charge of something he knows nothing about.

The problems we face are those of structure, and until society creates a new framework we shall continue to have this relentless battle between parties whose sole function is to disagree with the other side. What we need is one representative government whose sole function is to do what's best for the country, based on information from competent, qualified advisers. Yup ... a pipe dream, but in my view one which would produce a better country and society.

By the way, I noticed someone here supported reducing foreign aid, and i must say that I wouldn't subscribe to any policy which advocated such selfishness. One look around our society and a look around impoverished nations should be enough to illustrate the fact that we can well afford to help others who live in extreme poverty. We sit here with our wide screen TVs, expensive cars and health systems while they live in huts living off garbage. I simply cannot understand the mindset that would turn our backs on those people so that we can live in even more luxury!

[Warbler]

Ahe's probably still dreaming of Kevin. Afterall government was all about them and not us.

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Ahe's probably still dreaming of Kevin. Afterall government was all about them and not us.

[geoffsta]

Wonder what Juliar is thinking?

The green dress, or the white dress. Now which shoes.... Hmmm.. Handbag???? Oh... Pension day Thursday.. Beauty, I'll be able to carpet the mansion...


WHO BLOODY CARES

[Nick Cliff]

I asked a person who was a top economist about Australias debt and he said that we have always borrowed as a nation to fund growth ,two world wars etc, and the trick really is to keep the economy expanding at a rate that can service the debt.The point is blind freddy can see we will now have to reduce unproductive expenditure and invest in things that can grow the economy and attract people to get ahead in their endeavours.With our aid programs we really should concentrate on our neighbuors strategically to help ensure peace ,stability ,and good governance.With defence it is important that we maintain an effective technological advantage with the rise of China and India to our north with these nations reverting to their pre colonial areas of influence .It appears the paid parental leave scheme is wisely on hold for the time being until some serious income can be derived from our emerging natural gas exports in the next few years.Democracy is an evolving fluid social experiment with our country being an interesting one,apparently President Bill Clinton was asked if he thought a perfect form of democracy existed ? he replied that Australia probably came closest in his opinion.We can be pretty hard on ourselves as a people ,really we are not going too badly,regards Nick.