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Thread: Sony - New SLT Announced - A77 II

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    Sony - New SLT Announced - A77 II

    http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sony-alpha-slt-a77-ii

    ....the most focus points of any camera on the market (79)
    What? I have problems dealing with 1.....

    Key Specs:
    24MP CMOS Sensor with gapless, offset microlenses
    12fps continuous shooting with autofocus (up to 60 JPEGs)
    79 point AF module with 15 cross-type AF points; covers 40% of frame
    Increased control over AF behavior
    1080p60 movies with autofocus
    2.4M dot OLED viewfinder
    Pull-out three-hinge tilt/swivel 1.23m dot White Magic LCD screen
    Built-in Wi-Fi with NFC
    1/8000th maximum shutter speed, shutter rated for 150,000 actuations
    ISO 100 - 16,000 (25,600 with multi-image combination)
    Auto ISO customization
    Optional, profile-based correction of vignetting, chromatic aberrations and geometric distortion
    Top panel LCD
    Stereo microphone and external Mic socket
    AF Micro Adjust

    Also interesting to note that they have actually removed one of the gimmicks, being the GPS.

    I have to admit I am curious - I had kinda decided to go full frame, but if this has good IQ and is not a bank balance breaker, I will have to consider it as a replacement for my ageing A700.
    Last edited by hoffy; 01-05-2014 at 10:47pm.

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    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoffy View Post
    ....

    What? I have problems dealing with 1.....

    .....
    Something I've realized in going from D300 to D800 .. you can never have access to too many AF points(as long as they work properly).

    Whether you use them or not is entirely at your discretion of course.

    more of them with a greater areal coverage is good.

    more imaginative ways to control them would be awesome tho. Something that is severely lacking at the moment.
    Nikon D800E, D300, D70s
    {Nikon} -> 50/1.2 : 500/8(CPU'd) : 105/2.8VR Micro : 180/2.8ais : 105mm f/1.8ais : 24mm/2ais
    {Sigma}; ->10-20/4-5.6 : 50/1.4 : 12-24/4.5-5.6II : 150-600mm|S
    {Tamron}; -> 17-50/2.8 : 28-75/2.8 : 70-200/2.8 : 300/2.8 SP MF : 24-70/2.8VC


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    Ausphotography Regular agb's Avatar
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    79 af points but only 15 cross type. and 40% of the frame. Not all that world beating.
    The age of entitlement isn't over, it's just over there where you can't get to it.
    When several possibilities exist, the simplest solution is the best.
    "There are no rules" Bruce Barnbaum, The art of Photography
    Graham


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    Ausphotography Regular bitsnpieces's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agb View Post
    79 af points but only 15 cross type. and 40% of the frame. Not all that world beating.
    I agree, I don't know if it's just a Sony thing, or a normal thing, but I feel like AF points seem to always bunch around the middle. I'm no expert in photography, but I always wondered why not cover a larger amount of the screen? specially key points such as the corners for the rule of thirds?

    I've read that depending on the AF points, the auto focus may not be as quick as the optimal point, but I still don't see a reason for not covering a larger area - can anyone shed some light on that please?

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    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitsnpieces View Post
    ..... I'm no expert in photography, but I always wondered why not cover a larger amount of the screen? specially key points such as the corners for the rule of thirds?

    .....
    It's got something to do with the fact that the AF points are a projection rather than fixed on the sensor(or mirror). This projection is via another smaller sub mirror .. so because it's smaller it only projects a certain size.
    I'm not entirely sure of the physics behind it all, other than to say that the same AF mechanisms are used with the smaller sensor cameras, so this is why crop sensor cameras appear to have more frame coverage for AF points.

    If you have a DSLR yourself, you can see the AF sub mirror quite easily. You slowly flip the mirror mechanism upwards, as as it flips up(slowly) you will see the AF sub mirror stay down for a short while then flip up as well, at about the half way point for the main mirror.

    Mirrorless cameras having totally different AF systems to reflex cameras, the AF sensor is on the imaging sensor itself, as another layer of film covering(like the AA sensor and the colour filters arrrays).

    While these systems seem to allow an easier ability(for the engineers) to cover the sensor area with AF points, some of those AF systems are not without their own pitfalls too tho.

    But even taking those negatives into account, the future is almost certain to be in favour of the on sensor AF systems in the short term(next few generations of cameras).
    This of course then puts the DSLR design onto the endangered species list, for the AF sensor to see the subject, the mirror has to be 'out of the way'.

    Nikon had some info on some of the difficulties associated with phase detect on sensor designs somewhere once.

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    Ausphotography Regular bitsnpieces's Avatar
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    Interesting, thank you for the information. I'll have to look more into it, and check it out on my camera when I get a chance.

    Now... I just wish there was a way for me to swap my a65 for the a77II or at least at an extremely low price...
    David Tran

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    Ausphotography Regular Boo53's Avatar
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    It does look a bit interesting, but I'm more interested in the cache system that allows more than just a basic 12 shots in burst mode like in the current A77.

    I'm actually disappointed that the GPS is gone. Whilst I guess its not critical I do find it handy from time to time

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    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boo53 View Post
    .....

    I'm actually disappointed that the GPS is gone. Whilst I guess its not critical I do find it handy from time to time
    Seriously, and coming from a confirmed GPS(and map) nut! .. one thing I find a camera doesn't need is a GPS built in.
    In saying that, I can't think of a time in the past 4 odd, maybe 5 years when I haven't had a GPS connected in some way to my camera whilst out and about in a semi serious manner.

    First I had the GPS connected directly to the camera, and hence powered by the camera and that was for all intents and purposes a major fail!
    GPS added position data to the images ok, but only 200 or so of them from a single battery charge!
    When I'm out on a weekend or few days drive .. 200 images isn't going to cut it.
    So I looked at a wireless solution. Bluetooth.
    Image count went to well over a normal battery charge of about 800 images on the D300, and whatever I get on the D800 now .. ie. heaps ... because the high power drain GPS is now an autonomous device.
    (I get two days use of it per charge BTW)

    Sony's A77 isn't well known for having long battery life, EVF will see to that, and reliance on either this or the rear LCD .. well you need lots'a batteries(well I would!)
    Add a GPS that you inadvertently forget to turn off and I can't see more than about 100 images, maybe 200 tops.
    I think Sony see that as a potential issue and don't want folks to complain that battery life is bad etc, etc.

    I think Sony's cameras now come with some app capability or something(can someone confirm, as I don't know much about it).
    If this camera has this app capability and can connect seamlessly to a Sony smartphone, and geo tag images based on that connection(almost everyone has GPS enabled on their smart phones nowadays!! ) .. so it sort'a makes sense on multiple fronts.

    Sony wants to sell more Sony gear, people are easily impressed with such basic ideas, images can still get geotagged if needed.

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    Ausphotography Regular bitsnpieces's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arthurking83 View Post
    I think Sony's cameras now come with some app capability or something(can someone confirm, as I don't know much about it).
    If this camera has this app capability and can connect seamlessly to a Sony smartphone, and geo tag images based on that connection(almost everyone has GPS enabled on their smart phones nowadays!! ) .. so it sort'a makes sense on multiple fronts.

    Sony wants to sell more Sony gear, people are easily impressed with such basic ideas, images can still get geotagged if needed.
    I agree, and it makes more sense too to do it like this to save power (I'm guessing that program is Play Memories - that seems to be Sony's biggest image app that I've seen floating around; could be wrong though)

    For those who do use the wifi function for instant backups, uploads, or whatever, this app method is the way to go. Saves power on the camera as it only uses wifi, and you most likely have a car charger for the phone, no power problems on the GPS end. So you get the benefits of both worlds if you want to use GPS and wifi, or just use wifi.

    Well, what if you just want to use GPS and not the wifi part? Well, I'm guessing wifi uses less power than GPS, you can even (if made available), make the wifi weaker so it uses less power (and that's guessing your phone is near your camera anyways, why would you need full powered wifi to connect at such a close range?), so in the end, you're still using less power then a stand alone GPS unit, but you just have to do a few extra work to set it all up - small price to pay to get more features and better battery life I say.

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    A royal pain in the bum! arthurking83's Avatar
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    We don't get wifi in DSLRs in Nikon world, and TBH, I can't say I've missed it. Would have liked to have it on the very rare occasion for remote shooting ... but I'm not a habitual remote shooter maybe once or twice in years.

    Anyhow, because we don't have wifi, we have accessory options that involve bluetooth, which is really low power. The Bt dongle on the camera draws about 9mAh, or something ludicrously inconsequential, from the camera. So it pairs with a Bt GPS logger, which both logs and of course tags the files on the fly(I don't like tagging files from a log file).


    Anyhow, over the years, I'm pretty sure I've seen good GPS solutions for Sony cameras in my researching the stuff.

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    Ausphotography Regular Boo53's Avatar
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    The GPS on my a65 & a77 are rarely turned off and I find I don't need to carry an extra GPS and connect to something else to get tagged images, they're just done.

    I have no problems with battery life, over 400 images are the norm.

    I received an eyefi card as a present znd , if you've only got a few images to transfer its handy, but anything more han hat and its too slow.

    I rarely turn on the GPS in my phone as it draws too much power and there's enough other things I need the phone for and far too many other things hat need charging when in remote areas (as we are now, just south of Marree)

    Sent from my WL-101GQC using Tapatalk

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    The GPS removal has certainly caused a stir in many other online forums, that's for sure.

    I have to admit that there has never been a single situation in my entire time with a camera where I have said "Gee, I wish I could geo tag this photo...." but I suppose that is just me and my evil old ways.

    For me, the thing that will draw me to this camera is the non-release price and the (gulp) high ISO performance. I was all tee'd up (or more to the point, saving up for) a full framed Sony, but if this starts to regularly come in at around $1k (release price in Aust is around $1.5K), then it make this decision harder.

    OR, I could just spend more money on Medium Format Film gear (which seems to happen - which pushes back any purchase of digital gear another 6 or so months!)

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    Ausphotography Regular bitsnpieces's Avatar
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    Here's a nice video I found which shows it's auto focus a little:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlhDL3EdpR4

    Although it missed 1/4-1/3 of the shots from what I could see, it looks like it was very quick nonetheless. :P

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    Yeah .. the tracking feature looks promising

    On the D800, the AF tracking is nowhere near as quick looking as this video.
    I can't understand the language, but was that AF mode using phase, contrast, or a hybrid mode?
    And I'd be interested to see how well it works in more trying conditions like a soccer/footy game.

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    Ausphotography Regular bitsnpieces's Avatar
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    http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/05...ed-mirror-dslr

    This should explain how it works - looks like it's full phase detection, with the a99 feature of flexible spots.
    So it'll focus in a particular AF point (and with so many, makes it even easier and quicker to focus), but covers a range at the same time so it has a better chance of tracking and keeping things in focus.

    Of course, as seen in the video above, to which I'm guessing, there could be downfalls where it may catch some bursts not on the subject as it's still hitting the flexible spots, before it finds it's target again to the nearest AF point. To which at this point, if the flexible point is between 2 different objects, how will it know which to follow? It thinks your focus was on the wall now (as seen in the Youtube clip at the end) because it lost sight of the guy for a little bit.
    Just before that point, you see it catching back to the guy thanks to the flexible spots, so it works. But generally speaking, it's great, but not perfect.

    Nonetheless... I wish I had this baby... The new BIONZ X processor is intriguing as it's low noise quality is comparable to the big dogs now. This is based on the review I watched regarding Sony's new DSC-RX100 III which uses this new processor - interested to see the results of the A77 II.

    12 FPS, large buffer size, better high ISO IQ, all the support in the world from Sony (since everything else is getting discontinued now), dang... Maybe I can sell both my a55 and a65 to get the a77... But then I won't have a back up anymore for those emergencies...

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