Nikon Df - official

[rackham]

I think it looks awesome.

I also think that - a wealth of Canon lenses aside - I'd be hard pressed to justify purchasing one at that pricepoint. If it occupied the $1000-1500 pricepoint... who knows. I don't need another camera.

I don't need another camera.

I don't.

[bowjac]

The thing I love about discussions like this, is that they make you consider all viewpoints.
I would have let emotion carry me away to purchasing the Df in a flash.
Now?... maybe not. My D7000 is still a great camera. I think I'll give it a least another year.
Thanks everyone, for your broad range of viewpoints. I think I'll spend that $3000 dollars I've saved on cheap wine, and new socks and hankies instead.

[arthurking83]

...... I'd rather wait for real world reviews from average user, or even better, actually try one for myself in a shop (although I cant see it being carried in store in Brisbane anywhere for a while. People's views on the OVF will be quite personal, and what may be "light years" ahead for one person may only a small improvement for another.

....

Bjorn will explain it time and again, that he has eyesight issues(heavily reliant on wearing glasses) and makes much fuss about vf usability.

Just prior to getting my D800E I asked him in a direct manner to compare the D3, D700 and D800 for how well I can expect the D800 to focus manually.

For my taste he's either pretty much spot on or ever so slightly conservative ... he seems to think he has issues with the D800(manual focusing), where I can't agree with that experience.
Remember I'm going directly from the D300 with Katzeye, which is nigh on 99% fine for manual focusing any of my lenses(maybe except the 500mirror, but that's a special monster to focus perfectly on a regular basis!)
The D800 would be pretty much 95% fine. I reckon I get more in focus that not.


I've seen and experienced focus peaking at play .. and it's a nice feature for sure. But again, that has only been with a pretty slow(relative) short focal length lens on an APS-C sensor .. so DOF had masked the actual focusing accuracy to a point. Something that is going to be more of a problem with a truly fast lens with more focal length and on a larger format!

A short excerpt from the Out on the Road Sony A7r review on Petapixel:

"..... Solutions include setting the AF to “Center” and using the focus and recompose technique, as well as going fully manual with help from the camera’s focus peaking; however, even focus peaking has failed me (and others) at times ......"

(ps. I would have linked directly to the webpage this quote relates too, but a huge philosophical conundrum presented itself when I last viewed it. First image of the two Sonys with lenses mounted were captured in a dreadful grainy mushy pixelated manner with an iPhone 5s!! There's no way I could bring myself to point to a site like that. And the (and others) part of their quoted text is a hyperlink to the phoblographer as made on petapixel's webpage and I've linked too)

This, to me, indicates clearly that while the advantage of an EVF's focusing aid can be helpful .. they're not the actual cure, or answer to easy consistent manual focusing accuracy.

magnified view can be helpful in some instances .. and yet again, not all.

....

Rackham .. YOU DO!

bowjac ... only release $1250 of that $3K on cheapo wine over the next year or so .. at which point it'll leave you just enough to order one via the grey marketeers for the remaining amount
(ps. that Aldi stuff we had the other weekend was quite worth the money too I remember!)

[rackham]

Rackham .. YOU DO!

Naaaaaaaah.

Glass on the otherhand... something wider would be nice. What's even better is I don't have a financial advisor/significant other anymore.

[Tannin]

Brilliant stuff, Mr Nikon!



Pro: For the first time in a very long time, a major DSLR manufacturer has a product which seems to be deliberately designed to meet the needs of actual photographers, not yet another damn video toy.

Con: But, in the main, they have chosen to do this by (a) simply leaving out an unused feature (video) as if that omission was enough to compensate for all the neglect still photographers have seen from camera R&D departments over the last few years, and (b) sticking on a whole lot of cosmetic retro stuff.



Pro: For the first time since the 1D IV ... well, no, count the 5D III as well ... for the first time in quite a while, a new DSLR made me sit up and pay attention. Even better, it was different enough to demand close attention and - for the first time since the D200, which was eons ago - make this long-time Canon user think seriously about buying a Nikon. (Yes, yes, I've considered buying a Nikkor lens often enough, either a 200-400/4 VR or a 14-24/2.8, but always because I wanted the lens, and the appropriate camera would have been just an afterthought. The Df made me think about buying a Nikkon camera.

Con: But not for long.



Pro: Actual dials for most of the most-used functions. At last! This really got me thinking about buying Nikon.

Con: But not in very useful places. The longer I thought about what use those retro-style dials would be to me in actual practice, the longer I imagined it in my hands and taking pictures, the more of those retro dials I scrubbed off until I wound up with just two all-the-time controls I'd use ....... the front dial for aperture and the back dial for exposure compensation or (if shooting manual) shutter speed. I already have cameras with front dials and back dials which do exactly those things .... so what is the point of the Df? Not much, it seems.



Pro: It looks like a very, very good camera, brilliantly marketed, which will be an instant success and sell like crazy.

Con: But for all the wrong reasons, in many cases.




Oh well. I'll just go back to my Canons and back to wishing that Mr Canon would get a damn clue and stop mindlessly swapping the functions of the top dial and the back dial whenever you switch from aperture mode to manual mode. Drives me spare! The pro models don't do it (well, not if you fix it with the appropriate custom function, which is provided for that purpose), why do all the sub-$6000 models insist on it?

How much was that Df again?

[ricktas]

... why do all the sub-$6000 models insist on it?

How much was that Df again?

I think it was sub-$6000.

[arthurking83]

Price? while it may certainly be sub $6K .. i think in this day and age and going by the specs, parts list and functions available .. it should be sub $2K!!

.......


Pro: Actual dials for most of the most-used functions. At last! This really got me thinking about buying Nikon.

Con: But not in very useful places. ......

On other fora, there's much talk of this 'dials' feature .. and I simply don't geddit.

Last camera I had that had circular dials like this was an EM .. and to say that was a right ol PITA to use is putting it mildly.
The command/subcommand wheels system currently used for most if not all proper digital cameras.

iso control 'dial' would drive me mad on this camera .. so too the PSAM dial.
Switching from A to M is a regular workflow for me, especially when using the old non CPU lenses as metering can get a bit twilight zone .. and the process of button push and command wheel rotation seems so logical and natural to do.
D800 had made it slightly different because of the location of the 'Rec' button, but I'm getting used to that now.
(something that would have been smart by Nikon would have been to make these buttons(Rec and Mode) programmable!)

But this seemingly hysterical desire for 'manual dials' to control the exposure parameters ... I don't geddit at all.

Exposure compensation!
What's wrong with easy compensation? is it really that hard to set compensation with a simple flick of an (opposing)control dial.
Now you have to press a locking pin and turn a clickety dial.
This process has now gone from easy peasy to awkwardly convoluted

The recycling of these silly control dials on cameras of late has definitely set human progress back by about 50 years, to the moment before Neil Armstrong stepped onto the moon's surface ..... " and two giant leaps backwards" if you ask me.

Next to price, biggest negatives of this camera are the dial controls .. what would I use those dials for once I set the camera to be controlled via the command/sub command wheels?
Once again .. they're non configurable and hence pretty much chintzy stylized features that do nothing to assist the photographer.


.... the mark II version of this camera will mainly concentrate on those stupidly designed dial controls

- - - Updated - - -

Price? while it may certainly be sub $6K .. i think in this day and age and going by the specs, parts list and functions available .. it should be sub $2K!!

.......


Pro: Actual dials for most of the most-used functions. At last! This really got me thinking about buying Nikon.

Con: But not in very useful places. ......

On other fora, there's much talk of this 'dials' feature .. and I simply don't geddit.

Last camera I had that had circular dials like this was an EM .. and to say that was a right ol PITA to use is putting it mildly.
The command/subcommand wheels system currently used for most if not all proper digital cameras.

iso control 'dial' would drive me mad on this camera .. so too the PSAM dial.
Switching from A to M is a regular workflow for me, especially when using the old non CPU lenses as metering can get a bit twilight zone .. and the process of button push and command wheel rotation seems so logical and natural to do.
D800 had made it slightly different because of the location of the 'Rec' button, but I'm getting used to that now.
(something that would have been smart by Nikon would have been to make these buttons(Rec and Mode) programmable!)

But this seemingly hysterical desire for 'manual dials' to control the exposure parameters ... I don't geddit at all.

Exposure compensation!
What's wrong with easy compensation? is it really that hard to set compensation with a simple flick of an (opposing)control dial.
Now you have to press a locking pin and turn a clickety dial.
This process has now gone from easy peasy to awkwardly convoluted

The recycling of these silly control dials on cameras of late has definitely set human progress back by about 50 years, to the moment before Neil Armstrong stepped onto the moon's surface ..... " and two giant leaps backwards" if you ask me.

Next to price, biggest negatives of this camera are the dial controls .. what would I use those dials for once I set the camera to be controlled via the command/sub command wheels?
Once again .. they're non configurable and hence pretty much chintzy stylized features that do nothing to assist the photographer.


.... the mark II version of this camera will mainly concentrate on those stupidly designed dial controls

[I @ M]

Somewhere out there is a Japanese dentist named Suzuki Taro waiting for his new DF to be delivered.

[hoffy]

Somewhere out there is a Japanese dentist named Suzuki Taro waiting for his new DF to be delivered.

Took me a while! LOL.

So, Japanese dentists will be buying these. Dentists everywhere else will still buy Leica's?

TBH (& no, I am not a dentist), this camera well caught my attention the other night when we had a sales rep come to our photography club. He was quite enthusiastic about it - the style, the sensor, the fact that its a camera designed to take, well, photos. But the more I think about it, the more I understand that I already have a cupboard full of film camera's that were designed solely to take photos.

Me personally, I am a bit more excited about the A7/A7R, simply because I see it as a very very flexible platform, that also happens to have a Full Frame sensor.

Regardless, Nikon will sell the lot.

[I @ M]

Seems there is only one Df on Australia at the moment and it is a pre production version.

First shipment of production units are rumoured to be reserved exclusively for the Japanese dentist domestic market.

- - - Updated - - -

So, Japanese dentists will be buying these. Dentists everywhere else will still buy Leica's?

Nope, not everywhere, Japanese dentists buy the Nikon, American dentists buy Leicas to impress their lawyas and Australian dentists buy Fuji or Sony products.

[arthurking83]

Actually the only dentist ... "with huuuuge tracts of land"* ... that I've encountered in recent history had a Nikon. D40 or 60 from memory.
I would have been amazed to see a Leica being used!
I'd have explained to this dentist the merits of using higher end Nikon gear, had my mouth not been so numb with anesthetic.


Maybe I need to make an appointment again and refer to them the announcement of the Df .. before they numb my mouth, of course!



* "with huuuuuge tracts of land" ; c/- Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

[swifty]

No Df at the Nikon day today but I did fall in love with a D4.

Seems there is only one Df on Australia at the moment and it is a pre production version.

Bummer.
Digidirect has an intro event on Nov 27th if anyone is interested. Looks like it'll coincide with the world wide launch so unfortunately no early hands-on.

[ricktas]

Took me a while! LOL.

So, Japanese dentists will be buying these. Dentists everywhere else will still buy Leica's?

Actually most dentists buy Canon or Nikon cause they both have specific dental kits available. They come with ring macro lighting etc as a kit for use when photographing teeth. Really it is nothing more than a high level DSLR, with macro lens and ring lighting, but it comes all setup, aperture, ISO, shutter speed all set. Turn on and take the photos of patients.

They get then through dental supply companies.

So most dentists I know, buy these, for work (tax deductible) and then just get extra lenses and use then privately as well.

[I @ M]

Actually most dentists buy Canon or Nikon cause they both have specific dental kits available. They come with ring macro lighting etc as a kit for use when photographing teeth. Really it is nothing more than a high level DSLR, with macro lens and ring lighting, but it comes all setup, aperture, ISO, shutter speed all set. Turn on and take the photos of patients.

They get then through dental supply companies.

So most dentists I know, buy these, for work (tax deductible) and then just get extra lenses and use then privately as well.

Then they spend the tax savings on Leicas that live prominently on display on their bookshelves to impress their friends. You are probably right about them using the N & C cameras for the real photos, after all they wouldn't want greasy thumb prints on the bling items.

[Darey]

I thought the Dentists bought Nikon and Canon because the Plumbers beat them to the Leicas.


While I'm at it, I am sticking with the D7000 because, like Tannin said, it has the dials on the front and back and they are easy to use.

[Lance B]

I thought the Dentists bought Nikon and Canon because the Plumbers beat them to the Leicas.

Now, that is funny, and true!

[swifty]

For those who are interested, here's a Df sample set but jpegs only.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2374316...7637727725524/

[knumbnutz]

I like the Df styling - marginally more than the fuji X series.
Retro is ok as long as it is both true to style and practical not too mention that it captures well.
The price though is a little ridiculous although if it has D4 guts then probably in fairness it would be degrading the D4 if it was too cheap.
If it feels as good as it looks then I imagine it will do well especially in Japan and China.
It would only ever be a 2nd camera if I did get it, the D800 is still a better camera.

- - - Updated - - -

I like the Df styling - marginally more than the fuji X series.
Retro is ok as long as it is both true to style and practical not too mention that it captures well.
The price though is a little ridiculous although if it has D4 guts then probably in fairness it would be degrading the D4 if it was too cheap.
If it feels as good as it looks then I imagine it will do well especially in Japan and China.
It would only ever be a 2nd camera if I did get it, the D800 is still a better camera.

[I @ M]

Another opinion from someone that has used one. All over very positive. http://www.whatdigitalcamera.com/equ...-nikon-df.html

[arthurking83]

me thinks he maybe a bit biased tho.

I prefer opinions not set by some predetermined mindset (eg. that the old ways are better)

comments like: " .... And as for the video mode, well there isn't one, and all I can say is well done to Nikon for acknowledging that not everybody wants to be the next Spielberg."

OK true, but does it really makes this camera better in some way not having a feature that doesn't really impede still photography in any way?

then his comment re- the dials:

" ... There is something quite tactile and pleasurable about rotating a dial rather than referring to an LED read out and it does mean you can see the information you need without putting the camera up to your eye or squinting at a reflective display."

seriously?

He can't set ISO, WB, shutter speed and aperture on his D3x without looking through the viewfinder or on the review screen?

since when? ...

it begs the question too .. does he ever put his eye up to the camera?


His comments probably all make sense(to somebody), but from a few little snippets like that he just sounds like an old fogey that just wishes photography were about 10kg suitcase sized boxes and wet plates, and carcinogenic chemicals .... and just all round difficulty all over again.


I'm afraid I (easily)lose interest when reviews refer back to the difficulty of setting shutter speed and aperture via a rotating wheel that's perfectly placed to do the job, and about how much easier it is to these tasks via a dial that needs to be lifted to be unlocked and then turned ... and then pushed back and then locked into place again ....