Mystery FF in Nov

[Tommo1965]

Im interested to see how this plays out..I hope they offer it in a 36 MP version as well as the touted 16mp..if they do my D800 will be sold if the new body is a simple piece of kit like is being talked about

[swifty]

mmmm...divergence....

Haha.. do you think its a coincidence I started both threads?
Didn't want to cross post so I didn't mention the rumoured Nikon DF in the other thread. Afterall, despite the publicity and teasers, its still a rumour.
But the timing that the Nikon teasers and the article on LL started appearing... my spider senses are in over drive LOL.

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RE: AK83
Not sure if you're jesting but can't say I agree with much of that at all actually.

What I want to know .. is he manually focusing that AF-D lens .. or does this camera also have AF-D af capability?

If the emphasis is its compatibility with all Nikon lenses, even pre-AI then I think AF-D lens focussing should be fully supported.

I think it's going to be a good bet that this camera will also have video capability as well.

The Nikonrumors admin seem pretty adamant video has been left off intentionally.

My bet is on it being ... convergent!

I think the main point of this camera(for Nikon) is as a test bed for reactions to their implementation of EVF.
They can't just do EVF in their top line DSLRs(D800/D4) .. as it will alienate the die hards and pros.

So they want a 'crash test dummy' camera, without any pretensions to a specific market type(ie. pros) just in case things go pearshaped(as is their recent modus operandi).
This way they won't have forced an EVF onto the professional market via an established pro level camera line ... they market this new line towards the professional .. get feedback as to the pros/cons of their technology .. and then look to implement improved versions into future established pro lines.

I disagree on all points here. I think this will be clearly a divergent product. Back to photography roots.
I don't think there will be an EVF but then I don't know what to make of the hybrid moniker. Swappable pentaprism for and EVF perhaps, as Andrew suggested.

Either way, I think that OVF cameras are a doomed breed.
They're costly to manufacture due to tolerances and QC .... and they need a way out and into greener pastures.

I agree. OVF are doomed for mainstream cameras. But won't die completely, like many legacy items.

My suspicion is that's basically the marketing reasoning behind this sort of camera from Nikon, plus the retro rage currently going on around the globe for cameras.

Partially agree. Marketing must have a lot to do with it. But the success of the OMD and Fuji X must be making executive stand up and take notice. Is it really just a 'looks' fad or were the old designs never broken, but desired actually.

I believe that if this camera does have an EVF system, even if it is a hybrid EVF/OVF .. it'll find it's way into the Dxxx/Dx lines within 2 generations(ie. either D5/D6, or D810/D900 .. or whatever convoluted numbering system Nikon choose as successors).

I'm sure EVFs will make its way to other DSLRs down the road. I still think the hybrid OVF and/or EVF and by extension - on-sensor PDAF makes far more sense in a D400 like camera.

Besides all that .. it'll have a 4" touchscreen, with a programmable OS, and app capability .... so I can do my accounts, online banking, emails, play a bit of tetris and do some online shopping for new filters and lenses .. all while I'm out capturing videos of landscape scenes! ... cool

LOL...



Back on track...everything thus far points to a cut down, back to basics, frills free camera.
One thing's for sure, going by current expectations its got a lot of people (me included) quite excited.

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Im interested to see how this plays out..I hope they offer it in a 36 MP version as well as the touted 16mp..if they do my D800 will be sold if the new body is a simple piece of kit like is being talked about

Its been suggested the Nikon designed 16MP D4 sensor may be more appropriate due to potentially better performance with legacy lens (due to Nikon's microlens technology perhaps) vs the Sony 36MP sensor.
I haven't come across any solid commentary/articles to verify this claim though.

[fillum]

Haha.. do you think its a coincidence I started both threads?

Didn't think it a coincidence you started both threads, but I think the LL post is coincidental with the Nikon stuff. The LL guy seems to be a MF & Leica boi so I don't know if he'd be too interested in what Nikon are doing?

I don't think we'll see any new tech in this. I think the idea is to use existing parts, so cheaper to build and also minimal R&D costs to recover. Less doodads (no onboard flash, no top lcd, etc) and probably be deliberately 'crippled' to minimise firmware type features (no video, lots of existing menu options gone, no auto-mode? <- would they do that?), etc. The new lens is likely to be the existing 50mm f/1.8 but with a retro 'AI-S styled' outer (but without the "ears" ), although they might change the focus ring throw to aid manual focus?.

I reckon ~$1500




Cheers.

[swifty]

I reckon ~$1500

Yea, the Nikonrumors admin's hunch seem to be a sub-$2k pricing.
Another reliable poster (Bronxibear) with a history of insider info further posted that the quality may resemble that of a P7100. Ie. this is looking unlike the digital FM that many are hoping for.

[swifty]

Teaser video #4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHbFx-Jcfps

[Tommo1965]

the anticipation..it feels like 6 days before christmas and Im 9 years old ...

[I @ M]

The Nov. 5th date seems to have been confirmed.

Still plenty of time to speculate about the specs and get people into a lather though.

Sorry, in advance, Nikon this one is not going to find a place in this household, Fuji beat you to it.

[Tommo1965]

what did you buy Andrew ?...

[I @ M]

what did you buy Andrew ?...

That one Steve, many moons ago and it just keeps getting better.

It isn't the answer to all photographic needs but it is one hellofagudcamera.

[Tommo1965]

thanks for the link mate..looks like a nice camera judging by the image quality...I almost bought a X100 the other day for $400...kicking myself I didn't get it..particularly after the firmware update they had recently

[ricktas]

Nikon Df3 - from one of the videos and enhanced : http://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/.../nikondf_3.jpg

[swifty]

Going slightly off topic. If the Df proves to be a success, there's no technological barriers to producing a premium or lower cost version (relative to the rumoured first camera) with the same philosophy.
So the camera pricing becomes quite irrelevant really. It just has to fit the specs.

To take the concept further, a DX version could be highly desirable should a set of small DX primes be released concurrently. We currently only have the 35/1.8G.
Just have a look at Fuji X-mount prime lenses to see what's missing in Nikon's DX line up.

[arthurking83]

Well there is also the 40mm micro and 85mm micro(not small tho).

The current chatter is that it appears(from the massively recovered and grainy images) that this device may have interchangeable finders.

I think you're on the right track too swifty re pricing and spec levels.

But then again, it wasn't all that long ago when I used to cry myself to sleep due to Nikon's lack of a relatively cheap Fx camera, and approx $2.5K was required to enter into this fold.
And that was for a camera(D700) that was long overdue for updating too.
For far too long Sony had a cheap full frame camera in the A850(i think it was called) coming in under $2K, when the next cheapest was well over that.

And still Sony couldn't effectively penetrate that market segment!

Now we have D600s that have finally dipped into the more affordable realm from of all companies .. Nikon! The camera company with the overinflated ego ... and prices to match!

Just read Thom's latest article re full frame, and (I think)he's thinking that the two major protagonists are gravitating towards a full frame barney of some kind.
He goes on with much commentary as to the merits of whether we(average consumers) actually needs full frame .. and I reckon he's actually onto something with his article too.

We know Sony is more aggressive with their pricing re similarly specced cameras, and traditionally a similar Nikon camera type would attract about a $500 premium over whatever Sony has on offer.

So .. if the A7 is listed at (say) $1700 , then a 16Mp Nikon equivalent will come in at least $2.2K. If the A7r comes in at $2.5K .. then (if) Nikon made a 36Mp version, it'd have to come in at a min $3K.

Will Nikon ever make a set of smaller Dx specialist lenses again ....

I'm curious as to exactly how successful(or otherwise) the Nikon 1 system is working for Nikon, and if it was worth the effort for them.
They could have easily put that effort into a Dx sensored system instead, saved much of that effort via some of the common parts and engineering effort across the two systems(Nikon 1 and Dx) too .. and then funnel that saved effort into a few more Dx lenses .. being more useful across a more complimentary and compatible product range.

[swifty]

Well there is also the 40mm micro and 85mm micro(not small tho).

Oh yea.. forgot about those. You gotta wonder about priorities at Nikon eh. Wouldn't a 23mm/1.8 DX (35mm equiv) or similar be a more popular lens?

The current chatter is that it appears(from the massively recovered and grainy images) that this device may have interchangeable finders.
I think you're on the right track too swifty re pricing and spec levels.

I've been pretty bad with predictions actually but its all pretty harmless chatter anyways haha. A lot of people seem pretty convinced at a changeable finder. I think that would be great but it doesn't sound like a cheap feature to me though.

But then again, it wasn't all that long ago when I used to cry myself to sleep due to Nikon's lack of a relatively cheap Fx camera, and approx $2.5K was required to enter into this fold.
And that was for a camera(D700) that was long overdue for updating too.
For far too long Sony had a cheap full frame camera in the A850(i think it was called) coming in under $2K, when the next cheapest was well over that.

And still Sony couldn't effectively penetrate that market segment!

Now we have D600s that have finally dipped into the more affordable realm from of all companies .. Nikon! The camera company with the overinflated ego ... and prices to match!

Yea I always thought Sony priced themselves very aggressively. Which has been a good thing on Nikon and Canon prices. I always thought Sony's lack of traction wasn't gear related too. They're fantastic engineers but I don't fully trust their commitment. Not suggesting anything will happen to their Alpha DSLR/T line but if I had bought into it I'd be a bit concerned that their resources are now spread over 3 other lens lines in addition to DSLR/T FF: mirroless APS-C, mirrorless FF and DSLR/T APS-C. Its like they're only in when the market's hot. And right now the buzz is FF mirrorless.

Just read Thom's latest article re full frame, and (I think)he's thinking that the two major protagonists are gravitating towards a full frame barney of some kind.
He goes on with much commentary as to the merits of whether we(average consumers) actually needs full frame .. and I reckon he's actually onto something with his article too.

Even though I chose to skip APS-C (I've gone FX and m43), I think Nikon would be very silly to ignore DX. Sure DX started off due to cost and fab issues with FF but its really grown into a really nice (and largest) format with the bulk of DSLR users. Why not support these users. I feel there's better 3rd party support for DX than from themselves. A D400 is needed and some good lenses are required. A trimmed down APS-C camera and a series of small primes would have me considering selling off m43 and jumping back into Nikon APS-C. I say consider cos what I want really is commitment from the manufacturer to the format and the m43 players are very committed.

We know Sony is more aggressive with their pricing re similarly specced cameras, and traditionally a similar Nikon camera type would attract about a $500 premium over whatever Sony has on offer.

So .. if the A7 is listed at (say) $1700 , then a 16Mp Nikon equivalent will come in at least $2.2K. If the A7r comes in at $2.5K .. then (if) Nikon made a 36Mp version, it'd have to come in at a min $3K.

I don't think Nikon sees their 16MP sensor as inferior though. In fact with smaller production numbers, it might even be more expensive and since its in the D4, its a bit of a halo sensor. But yea, I think Sony is a thorn in Nikon's side cos even though I think the Df and A7/r are very different cameras, they will undoubtedly be price competitors. Again, a good thing for us and I agree that Sony's pricing will be relevant for Nikon's products, whether they like it or not.

Will Nikon ever make a set of smaller Dx specialist lenses again ....

I'm curious as to exactly how successful(or otherwise) the Nikon 1 system is working for Nikon, and if it was worth the effort for them.
They could have easily put that effort into a Dx sensored system instead, saved much of that effort via some of the common parts and engineering effort across the two systems(Nikon 1 and Dx) too .. and then funnel that saved effort into a few more Dx lenses .. being more useful across a more complimentary and compatible product range.

I agree. But I guess resources are finite and DX's becoming the ignored middle child. I still think their decision to go with a 1" sensor to differentiate the CX line from the DSLRs might not have been the best but now they've gone with it, they gotta stick to their guns.

[swifty]

And like clockwork, teaser #5 is up:



We get to see a lot more of the camera this time.

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Centre weighted and matrix metering are there, no spot?
Rear four-way direction pad.
AF-On and AE-L/AF-L buttons all present.
Rear control dial.
Top shutter dial
Doesn't look that retro.

[swifty]

My mistake. The spot 'dot' is there.
Looks quite premium.
Thicker than I had expected. Excluding the mount protrusion, the left side of the body looks only marginally thinner than my D700. But I guess you'll get far more volume/thickness savings on the right side of the body.

Looking too much into it LOL. That's what happens when you're sick and bed bound!

[I @ M]

What if -----

Everybody got one thing wrong and it isn't FX.

What if -----

The DF is actually in place of a number and it stands for 400.

[MattNQ]

What if -----

Everybody got one thing wrong and it isn't FX.

What if -----

The DF is actually in place of a number and it stands for 400.

Now that you raise that possibility, one could speculate that a 16mp sensor and Expeed 4 should hammer out more than the fairly ordinary rumoured frame rate. 5.5 fps was it?

sent from a not-very-smart phone via tapatalk

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Why do these videos give me the impression that they should be entitled "Wallander takes up photography"....

[swifty]

What if -----

Everybody got one thing wrong and it isn't FX.

What if -----

The DF is actually in place of a number and it stands for 400.

haha.. the FX symbol is boldly printed on the front of the teaser camera. (Camera lower left, our lower right).

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Now that you raise that possibility, one could speculate that a 16mp sensor and Expeed 4 should hammer out more than the fairly ordinary rumoured frame rate. 5.5 fps was it?

Certainly possibly but for FPS, bandwidth is less of a problem than the mirror (Queue Nikon V2). With the rumoured hybrid moniker, we might still see an EVF of some sort, bypassing the mirror limitation.

[swifty]

Oooh.. the camera's finally leaked:

http://nikonrumors.com/2013/11/04/th...nikon-df.aspx/