Mystery FF in Nov

[swifty]

OK.. I know its bad form to talk about vapourware but the latest rumours have really piqued my interest.
Anyways, for those who haven't seen it here are the supposed specs:

"Nikon FM2 like design (rumour updated to supposedly look more F3 like)
16.2MP 36x23,9 full frame sensor (same as in the D4?)
SD memory card
2016-pixel RGB image sensor
9-cell framing grid display
3D color matrix metering II
Native ISO range: 100-12,800 (incl. ISO 50 and ISO 108,200)
5.5 fps for up to 100 shots
3.2" LCD screen
Battery:EN-EL14
Dimensions: 143.5 x 110 x 66.5mm
Weight: 765g
It will come with a new AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G lens (again, not clear what mount the new lens will have)
Standard F-mount
No video recording capabilities
Pentaprism viewfinder (meaning the camera will not be mirrorless)
The camera will meter even with non-AI lenses down to full aperture
The camera will ship with a new special edition Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G lens to match the look/design of the body
The camera will have physical controls and excellent build quality (which explains the 765g weight)
Expeed 3 processor
Same sensor as in the Nikon D4
Nikon calls it a "hybrid" camera - not sure what exactly they mean with that
The announcement will be during the first week of November"
Copy and pasted from Nikonrumors.com

The 'hybrid' name got me speculating PDAF/Hybrid AF, and/or EVF/OVF hybrid viewfinder but then the updated rumours says no video which basically debunks that.

So.. just a bit of fun and games, what do you reckon hybrid means?

Or its just a retro legacy tank of a camera but with digital innards that's completely photo-centric in design. Last forever battery life, throw anything at it build. But if that was it, why call it a hybrid?

[ricktas]

I have been reading about this the last week or so, and I am still not sure if it is a valid rumour or just another hoax (as such). But very interesting move by Nikon if it proves to really exist.

There is a photo digital art? of what it looks like here, along with more details.

I suppose we will find out soon enough if it really exists or not

[swifty]

I think that might just be a pic of an FM2 that it's suppose to look like.

There now additional coverage/speculation on Thom Hogan's site:
http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/...of-the-fm.html
http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/the-fm-numbers.html

The hybrid tag still baffles me though. Thom seem to be suggesting a stripped down version with just the basic features so what new tech could be underneath to warrant the 'hybrid' tag.
Swappable digital sensor 'cartridge' for a film one? Surely not.. But since this is a wild rumour thread :P

[fillum]

Saw this on NR as well...certainly one of the more interesting Nikon rumours for a while. A few thoughts...

"Hybrid" perhaps refers to the mix of components: low-end (battery, minimal connectivity?) + mid-range(AF, fps) + high-end (sensor).

The 'hybrid' name got me speculating PDAF/Hybrid AF, and/or EVF/OVF hybrid viewfinder but then the updated rumours says no video which basically debunks that.

While the "PDAF/Hybrid AF, and/or EVF/OVF hybrid viewfinder" are probably on their way into DSLRs (I'm thinking D400) I don't think they fit the 'stripped-back' philosophy here. Additionally, if the D4 sensor part is correct that would also eliminate PDAF/Hybrid AF.

What makes me think this rumour could be true is that Nikon might be able to build it relatively cheaply from existing parts stock, but actually sell it at a premium. (Who knows, they might have a wharehouse full of unused FM2 shells ? ). Although the market for this camera might not be huge, I would imagine it to be quite passionate. Given there is a specific mention that "The camera will meter even with non-AI lenses down to full aperture" perhaps gives a hint as to where they would be pitching this.

Be interesting to see if this eventuates. I just hope the 50mm is not a 'pancake' - I might have to sell a kidney...




Cheers.

[I @ M]

All very interesting indeed.
It seems to fit well with the current trend of "retro" designs and going by the rumoured dimensions and weight it would be pretty well a digital F3.
The hybrid description sort of makes sense to me as the F3 offered various viewfinders that could be fitted according to need and this rumoured digital model may offer either interchangeable or optical / electrical viewfinders perhaps even using the Sony style translucent mirror.

I do recall seeing something a while ago about Nikon having a patent for a mirror that was electronically switchable between translucent and "solid".

Time will tell I guess but all I can guarantee is that the price won't make many people happy.

[swifty]

"Hybrid" perhaps refers to the mix of components: low-end (battery, minimal connectivity?) + mid-range(AF, fps) + high-end (sensor).

A hybrid low-mid-high end camera.. interesting take. Or hybrid new-old. New innards, old classic shooting philosophy.

While the "PDAF/Hybrid AF, and/or EVF/OVF hybrid viewfinder" are probably on their way into DSLRs (I'm thinking D400) I don't think they fit the 'stripped-back' philosophy here. Additionally, if the D4 sensor part is correct that would also eliminate PDAF/Hybrid AF.

I agree. My initial thoughts are far more in line with a D400-like camera rather than a stripped back retro design. I really got stuck on the hybrid bit which might not even be very significant, but a marketing tag.

What makes me think this rumour could be true is that Nikon might be able to build it relatively cheaply from existing parts stock, but actually sell it at a premium. (Who knows, they might have a wharehouse full of unused FM2 shells ? ). Although the market for this camera might not be huge, I would imagine it to be quite passionate. Given there is a specific mention that "The camera will meter even with non-AI lenses down to full aperture" perhaps gives a hint as to where they would be pitching this. .

The rumoured dimensions at 143.5 x 110 x 66.5mm comes in around 6.5mm thicker than an FM2. Its not hard to imagine a LCD accounting for that extra depth.

Be interesting to see if this eventuates. I just hope the 50mm is not a 'pancake' - I might have to sell a kidney...

Cheers.

Lucky for me I recently sold a lens that can fund upcoming purchases so my kidneys are still safe for now haha.

[I @ M]

The rumoured dimensions at 143.5 x 110 x 66.5mm comes in around 6.5mm thicker than an FM2. Its not hard to imagine a LCD accounting for that extra depth.

Which is why the FM3 matches it slightly more closely to my eyes --- specs at the bottom of the page.

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography...htmls/spec.htm

[swifty]

All very interesting indeed.
It seems to fit well with the current trend of "retro" designs and going by the rumoured dimensions and weight it would be pretty well a digital F3.
The hybrid description sort of makes sense to me as the F3 offered various viewfinders that could be fitted according to need and this rumoured digital model may offer either interchangeable or optical / electrical viewfinders perhaps even using the Sony style translucent mirror.

I do recall seeing something a while ago about Nikon having a patent for a mirror that was electronically switchable between translucent and "solid".

Time will tell I guess but all I can guarantee is that the price won't make many people happy.

Another interesting take, Andrew. A more modular design, not that DSLRs weren't modular to begin with.
But what if the sensor unit was modular?
http://nikonrumors.com/2013/09/27/ni...e-sensor.aspx/

[arthurking83]

.....


The rumoured dimensions at 143.5 x 110 x 66.5mm comes in around 6.5mm thicker than an FM2. Its not hard to imagine a LCD accounting for that extra depth.



......

Those dimensions don't really speak of a very compact camera either tho.

If you measure a D800(currently considered to be a monster in camera body terms) .. a D800 measures 140-ish x 120(ish) x 80(ish) really not all that different in real terms to this supposed body.
In fact, the thickness of the D800 is really only at the grip end of the body, which forms a supremely ergonomic design, which should be comfy enough to hand hold all day(for my average sized male hand).
80% of the D800's body thickness is measured at about 60(ish)mm.

So apart from the retro styling .. the advantage in this camera is ......

If you want a cut down, lightweight full frame Nikon DSLR .. just get a (most likely)cheaper D600!

About two or so years back, Nikon filed a patent for a hybrid OVF/EVF ... so the most likely answer to this hybridised terminology could be the final result of that engineering effort(hopefully).

PDAF is not really a hybrid anything any longer ... it's standard fare for AF amongst many new model cameras.

So! .. this camera is basically going to be a stripped down gripless D800, possibly with a D4 sensor(unlikely) .. or maybe even a mystery Aptina sensor??
(I'm pretty sure I've read that the Nikon V1 uses an Aptina sensor .. so to reduce their reliance on Sony, Nikon may be sowing other fields )

Anyhow.. hopefully we'll find out more early November.

[swifty]

Those dimensions don't really speak of a very compact camera either tho.

If you measure a D800(currently considered to be a monster in camera body terms) .. a D800 measures 140-ish x 120(ish) x 80(ish) really not all that different in real terms to this supposed body.
In fact, the thickness of the D800 is really only at the grip end of the body, which forms a supremely ergonomic design, which should be comfy enough to hand hold all day(for my average sized male hand).
80% of the D800's body thickness is measured at about 60(ish)mm.

That's true, the dimensions aren't a massive reduction, unlike eg. the A7/r's design.
But remembering those are the supposed dimensions at the extremities and doesn't necessary mean no grip at all. There could still be a smaller grip.
Depending on the actual extensions, there could still be quite a large volume reduction even if the camera remains relatively heavy due to the construction.

So apart from the retro styling .. the advantage in this camera is ......

If you want a cut down, lightweight full frame Nikon DSLR .. just get a (most likely)cheaper D600!

I still say the volume reduction might prove to be quite significant. Looking at the latter days of film, Nikon had cameras such as the F5/F6, F100 and Fm3a as well as other entry level DSLRs. Horses for courses.
I actually think a strip down camera is quite refreshing. Regardless of the actual styling (retro or not), this is far more interesting to me than eg. a D610. I already own a D700 btw.
I'm actually not in the market for a camera, it's purely for interest's sake. But there could be surprise or two that might get me thinking.

About two or so years back, Nikon filed a patent for a hybrid OVF/EVF ... so the most likely answer to this hybridised terminology could be the final result of that engineering effort(hopefully).

PDAF is not really a hybrid anything any longer ... it's standard fare for AF amongst many new model cameras.

So! .. this camera is basically going to be a stripped down gripless D800, possibly with a D4 sensor(unlikely) .. or maybe even a mystery Aptina sensor??
(I'm pretty sure I've read that the Nikon V1 uses an Aptina sensor .. so to reduce their reliance on Sony, Nikon may be sowing other fields )

Anyhow.. hopefully we'll find out more early November.

I'm thinking on-sensor PDAF (for DSLRs) with OVF/EVFs might make its debut in a speed machine in a hypothetical D400. I just think the mechanical mirror limits FPS, and not the bandwidth as shown in the Nikon V2. Hence this tech would be far more suited to a sports/wildlife orientated camera where FPS wouldn't be limited by the mirror whilst AF stays up to scratch using on-sensor PDAF.
There's specific mention of no video. Could just be cost reduction thing but on-sensor PDAF would necessitate the mirror to be up, and the only way to compose would then be to have a video feed from the sensor. So no video would very likely mean no on-sensor PDAF I reckon.

[swifty]

http://nikonrumors.com/2013/10/24/fi...px/#more-65898

Teaser from Nikon.
Link's on the NR page but here's the direct link to youtube.

[I @ M]

http://nikonrumors.com/2013/10/24/fi...px/#more-65898

Teaser from Nikon.
Link's on the NR page but here's the direct link to youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CDWV6o1o4A

Good quality video --- probably filmed with a Canon.

Might be some truth in this rumour after all with all the carefully orchestrated "leaks" happening.

[swifty]

http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/

Placeholder in the Nikon DSLR lineup page labelled Pure Photography that links to the above video teaser.

[fillum]

Hmmm...Shady looking bloke in an overcoat all alone says "It's in my hands again"...Canon-fodder will have a field day with that

[I @ M]

A quick look around the Nikon fanboi sites today shows plenty of interest.

All that can be guaranteed is that when it is finally released there will be the usual howls of ----

The top 10 in order.

#1 Too expensive, if it was $1199.00 I would buy it.
#2 Where is the D700 replacement? I have been waiting 2 years and I need one now!
#3 Where is the D400? If they don't release it tomorrow I am going to buy a Canon!
#4 Too many megapickles! I can't afford a new computer!
#5 Not enough megapickles! How am I ever going to impress my failbook friends!
#6 Not enough focus points! And they had all better work at F/16!
#7 No 4k video, it will never sell!
#8 Aaaah, finally a small body from Nikon but how come the battery grip costs $300.00
#9 They should have made it all black / silver. (strike out whichever does not apply)

and finally

#10 So that's what they did with all the left over D600 shutter assemblies.

[arthurking83]

Hmmm...Shady looking bloke in an overcoat all alone says "It's in my hands again"...Canon-fodder will have a field day with that

must remember to direct them to this thread then huh!

[swifty]

A quick look around the Nikon fanboi sites today shows plenty of interest.

All that can be guaranteed is that when it is finally released there will be the usual howls of ----

The top 10 in order.

#1 Too expensive, if it was $1199.00 I would buy it.
#2 Where is the D700 replacement? I have been waiting 2 years and I need one now!
#3 Where is the D400? If they don't release it tomorrow I am going to buy a Canon!
#4 Too many megapickles! I can't afford a new computer!
#5 Not enough megapickles! How am I ever going to impress my failbook friends!
#6 Not enough focus points! And they had all better work at F/16!
#7 No 4k video, it will never sell!
#8 Aaaah, finally a small body from Nikon but how come the battery grip costs $300.00
#9 They should have made it all black / silver. (strike out whichever does not apply)

and finally

#10 So that's what they did with all the left over D600 shutter assemblies.

LOL.. the number of complaints that are already rolling in. #6 getting a good work out.
It quite amazing how emotional people get when camera A doesn't have exactly XYZ that 'I' want.
Good and bad I guess. Good that people care, bad how self centred our society's becoming (as a whole).

BTW, for those casually following the news only:

Speculated name is the Nikon DF

Second teaser video is up:


The 'Pure Photography' placeholder in the link I posted above is gone now.

[swifty]

Teaser #3's up":

[fillum]

mmmm...divergence....

[arthurking83]

What I want to know .. is he manually focusing that AF-D lens .. or does this camera also have AF-D af capability?

I think it's going to be a good bet that this camera will also have video capability as well.

My bet is on it being ... convergent!

I think the main point of this camera(for Nikon) is as a test bed for reactions to their implementation of EVF.
They can't just do EVF in their top line DSLRs(D800/D4) .. as it will alienate the die hards and pros.

So they want a 'crash test dummy' camera, without any pretensions to a specific market type(ie. pros) just in case things go pearshaped(as is their recent modus operandi).
This way they won't have forced an EVF onto the professional market via an established pro level camera line ... they market this new line towards the professional .. get feedback as to the pros/cons of their technology .. and then look to implement improved versions into future established pro lines.

Either way, I think that OVF cameras are a doomed breed.
They're costly to manufacture due to tolerances and QC .... and they need a way out and into greener pastures.

My suspicion is that's basically the marketing reasoning behind this sort of camera from Nikon, plus the retro rage currently going on around the globe for cameras.

I believe that if this camera does have an EVF system, even if it is a hybrid EVF/OVF .. it'll find it's way into the Dxxx/Dx lines within 2 generations(ie. either D5/D6, or D810/D900 .. or whatever convoluted numbering system Nikon choose as successors).


Besides all that .. it'll have a 4" touchscreen, with a programmable OS, and app capability .... so I can do my accounts, online banking, emails, play a bit of tetris and do some online shopping for new filters and lenses .. all while I'm out capturing videos of landscape scenes! ... cool