Anyone else concerned about the way our country is headed?

[ameerat42]

"ricktas thanked for this useful post"
And so did Am.

[Mark L]

It's funny. I was chatting to a work colleague today & he put forward a few ideas- why don't we allow the boat people to stay...under the condition that they are bound to work for x years ..eg. labouring - roads, rail, footpaths, weed management etc - working on essential community infrastructure in exchange for a basic (ie liveable) wage and accommodation provided for them and their family. Preferably in regional areas where the communities are doing it tough. At the end of x years, they are offered a block of land for a minimal sum in the regional area where they have been working.....

Now I'm not saying that this idea is the perfect solution, but why aren't we seeing more constructive and creative ideas like that from our esteemed leaders???

Possibly 'cause "stop the boats" wins votes.Don't matter that more people wanting asylum here come by plane.)
N.D.I.S, N.B.N., plain packaging of cigarettes, attempts at a viable Murray-darling basin plan, education reform, aged pensions have increased. mmmm

[arthurking83]

..... At least then we will have some decent baristas who know how to make a real coffee

LOL! baristas in Queensland???? seriously ... I thought they only knew Nescafe up their way.

I suppose it wouldn't be all bad if Melb end up in Qld ... notwithstanding the lack of quality baristas .. we could grow our own coffee beans too boot

That is .. not grow coffee beans to boot(them) .. I meant grow coffee beans ... as well! It seems wasteful too boot a newly grown coffee bean before you torture it in a hell for a few hours, run it through a grinder, and finally drown it with pressurized steam before finally discarding with all other refuse.


Ah! Australia is going down the gurgler I reckon .. we need heaps more baristas(in Melb at least) .. we need to stop booting coffee beans for no reason(no! hangon I mentioned that .. that's my fault, oops) .. we need to maintain a more fair and equitable political situation, and for that I reckon we need one political representative for each eligible voting Australian for each of the upper and lower houses. And the rep with the most obscure photography lens becomes the leader of the parliament for a week, thereafter nominating his or her favourite opponent during that week as successor.
bring back Queensland old gerrymander system I reckon. Give me a voice in a circus I have no idea about .. I'm sure I'll figure out a way do something with it, which is a lot more than the current incompetents have done for the past how many years!

I'm with Geoff ... we need action!
and if we get action, and then get some lights to go with all that action, all we then need is a camera .. and, yay! We'll have everything ... lights, camera .... action!

[old4570]

In the last 30 to 40 years , neither Government has done next to nothing to address the issue of the boat people ..

From a perspective human rights , Que jumping , illegal entry , human trafficking , etc .

Boat people have been nothing less or more than a political football ..

The actual issue of stopping the boats has never been addressed ... And in all honesty , I dont know that either party wants to stop them ..

Here is my solution ( to stop illegal entry , people risking their lives , put a stop to human trafficking )

As soon as we intercept a boat :

A/ We identify all individuals , anyone not identified goes to prison till they are ..
B/ Once identified , individuals are seen to - medical needs etc
c/ Once individuals are cleared ( not criminals etc ) they are put on a plane and sent home .. ( No exceptions )
D/ Anyone eligible for refugee status is given a form to submit at an Australian embassy in there home country ...
E/ If we send them home when they try to Que jump , the boats will stop !

The solution is simple - We dont accept Que jumpers !
We dont hold them in detention centers
We dont deprive them of their human rights
We dont deprive them of the right to ask for asylum
We only stop them from Que jumping
We send them home for free

We can still accept refugees , but not Que jumpers , we send them home ! No questions asked and no exceptions ...
We treat them the same as Tourists that have overstayed .. We send them home ...

Do we want to save lives , stop human trafficking , stop the boats ?

Or do we just want to talk about it , and not really deal with the issue in a fashion that will actually end the problem ?

40 years , and the boats still come , seriously ! 40 years !

Are politicians really that stupid ?

Dont answer that !

[ROA44]

Not necessarily my point of view, but thought it expressed well a lot of peoples thoughts at the moment with politics and politicians and thought a lot of you might enjoy even from a performance aspect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=WSIUf2hD6Io

[Steve Axford]

Perhaps it's a sign of national adolescence that we are most inclined to rubbish ourselves. The USA or UK or Germany or most other older countries don't do that, even though they are worse than Oz in so many respects. As they say on the footy show (any code will do), we need to take a good hard look at ourselves and at the same time take a good hard look at other countries. I think we will find that we come out quite well in comparison. At the same time we need to take a good hard look at history and I think we will also find that we are generally better than we were before - there are ups and downs of course, but generally it has been up. Sure, we do have problems, but we can solve them, if we try. Then there will be a new set of problems which we will also have to solve. That's life, isn't it? No point complaining when the answer is in ourselves.

[crazymorton]

^ what Steve said.

some people are just to pessimistic. we have a great country let's celebrate it's greatness.

[cupic]

Our country Oz is still the great country BUT its slowly down down the toilet
From both sides of Politics and outside influences

[Duane Pipe]

Personally I'm thinking if Rudd gets back in. I'll hire a boat in Darwin. Go out about 20 miles or so. Then ring the Indonesian navy to come and pick me up.

Greed, greed, greed. And after that they want to suck more money out of us. With many businesses now, production costs are outweighing income, forcing them broke.
Minority are winning over majority. And those who bust a foofer valve to get somewhere in life are getting shafted, and those sitting around bludging on the rest of us are living well.

Words are words, and that's all they are.... Action is what we need.

Not me Geoff. Although sometimes I feel guilty being unemployed and a burden to mum and dad but thats not my choice.
I cant believe how the Latrobe Valley has changed in the last 10 years. A few major Construction contractors have gone under in the last few and the region has way out grown the employment opportunities.
I have never In my life needed a job network provider to find work. But now after 3 years with their help I am still unemployed.
I could move away.

There has been a influx of sudanese in this region and they seem to be driving very nice cars
My best mates uncle owns a local car yard and has apparently seen vouchers from Centrelink of up-to the value of $30.000 for a new car I hope that's not true.... I am not being Racist but they are taking our jobs and our money. Money that could see our homeless sheltered I have found bush shelters in the local parks while shooting birds..

[Steve Axford]

Best mate's uncles who own car yards are possibly not the finest of witnesses, Duane. We tend to believe what agrees with our beliefs. The trick is learning to question everything, even those things that fit so perfectly with what we believe. For myself, the Sudanese seem like good people, though like all people some will be less than perfect. I am certainly glad that I was not born in Sudan and I do not begrudge them a chance to live a life without others trying to kill them.

[Duane Pipe]

They have beautiful smiles Steve and I don't have a problem with them either. I was just saying that our region could do without the population growth, There is no work here to support us. Moe, Morwell and Traralgon have a population of 75,000 with 4575 unemployed, Me pushing 50 with injuries have no chance.....

[Steve Axford]

I can understand how you feel, Duane, but perhaps you shouldn't write as if you did have a problem. You may give the wrong impression to those who read what you say.

[Mathy]

In the last 30 to 40 years , neither Government has done next to nothing to address the issue of the boat people ..

Not quite right, the problem today is very different to the problem faced 30 years ago.

From a perspective human rights , Que jumping , illegal entry , human trafficking , etc .

QUE is spelt Queue

Boat people have been nothing less or more than a political football ..

True

The actual issue of stopping the boats has never been addressed ... And in all honesty , I dont know that either party wants to stop them ..

Wrong, John Howard and Co were obsessed with stopping them and did achieve a reduction in boat arrivals.

As soon as we intercept a boat :

A/ We identify all individuals , anyone not identified goes to prison till they are ..
B/ Once identified , individuals are seen to - medical needs etc
c/ Once individuals are cleared ( not criminals etc ) they are put on a plane and sent home .. ( No exceptions )
D/ Anyone eligible for refugee status is given a form to submit at an Australian embassy in there home country ...
E/ If we send them home when they try to Que jump , the boats will stop !

A/ Many genuine refugees do not have identity documents, not everyone comes from an orderly and well documented society such as ours.
B/ Good
C/ I protest, we should send the criminals back as well - no exceptions.
D/ Many countries from which asylum seekers originate from do NOT have an Australian Embassy, that's part of the problem.
E/ Without a place to submit a form to ask to emigrate to OZ, there cannot be queue jumpers as there is no queue.

We can still accept refugees , but not Que jumpers , we send them home ! No questions asked and no exceptions ...
We treat them the same as Tourists that have overstayed .. We send them home ...

We are pathetic at sending people home who have overstayed their visas, I seriously doubt we'd be any better at it under this system.

Do we want to save lives , stop human trafficking , stop the boats ?

Yes!

Or do we just want to talk about it , and not really deal with the issue in a fashion that will actually end the problem ?

40 years , and the boats still come , seriously ! 40 years !

I don't remember there being so much angst about Vietnamese refugees 40 years ago. I feel our politicians and population had a much more compassionate and educated opinion about the issue then. Adelaide has quite a large Vietnamese community with a refugee heritage. They are immensely productive small business owners, and we all enjoy their wonderful cuisine, the same goes for Italians and Greeks, if you want to go further back in time. The problem now is that the media choose to treat the issue as something that we should be frightened about, individuals who can make money out of other people's misery are having a field day, the politicians are using it as a political football because the media have wound up the voters and the voters need a good lesson in geopolitics and critical thinking, in the hope that they will stop believing everything they read in the Murdoch press or hear from the shock jocks on talkback radio.

Are politicians really that stupid ?

It's not about politicians being stupid. It's about them retaining their power base, and if the media winds the voters up about these differently coloured, differently religious and culturally different people, then the politicians will spend their time resolving THEIR problem by demonising said people. That is what I find offensive. Probably the issue that the media are using as a scare tactic is that so many of these asylum seekers are from a Muslim background. I believe that freedom of religion is important (I'm not at all religious), I also believe that if you want to live by Sharia Law, then you better choose to emigrate to a country that shares your beliefs, because Australia is not going to go there. At the same time, I ask myself 'When did religion start to become so important in this Country as a political issue?' - I put that firmly at the feet of, firstly John Howard, and then Kevin Rudd - that sort of americanisation of our political system, we can do without!

We are known as a very tolerant, generous society and I'm proud of that - after all, unless you are an indigenous Australian, then you are either an immigrant/convict or the descendant of one .

We have a proud history of accepting people from different lands and cultures and assimilating them into our society - the real question we should be pondering is 'Why has this changed and why have we allowed that to happen?

cheers Deb

[Granville]

I don't remember there being so much angst about Vietnamese refugees 40 years ago.

That's because 40 years ago Vietnamese refugees were genuine refugees. They were being kept in poverty and in fear of their lives from an oppressive communist regime.

I doubt even 5% of the "refugees" coming over on boats are escaping being oppressed, in fear of their lives, and kept in poverty.

I will support the acceptance and rehabilitation in Australia of genuine refugees any time they need it, but they need to be refugees, not people who claim to be but have the money in the first place to pay the people smugglers to get them in the back door.

[ricktas]

Australia accepted 3% of the world's refugees in 2012. Yet we are 25million strong in a world of 7 Billion. I think we are trying to be the 'good world citizen' to our own detriment at times

[ameerat42]

Mathy. Has anyone thanked you for your useful post?
Well, let me be the 1st.
Am (thanked for this useful post).

[ricktas]

200 years ago, we were all boat people

[blkmcs]

Australia accepted 3% of the world's refugees in 2012. Yet we are 25million strong in a world of 7 Billion. I think we are trying to be the 'good world citizen' to our own detriment at times

Can you quote the source of this 3% and can you clarify what you mean by "accepted"?
Refugees in camps are not the same as refugees resettled, perhaps you mean the total intake.

http://www.factsfightback.org.au/doe...eck-the-facts/
The UNHCR Global Trends Report 2010 shows that Australia took one refugee per 1, 000 population and ranked 69th in the world for per capita refugee intake. 2012 UNHCR figures for absolute refugee intake show that Australia took nearly 30,000 refugees and ranked 49th in the world.

Mathy. Has anyone thanked you for your useful post?
Well, let me be the 1st.
Am (thanked for this useful post).

I'll second that.

[ricktas]

the 3% was stated by a politician last week on an ABC tv show. I cannot recall the show right now.

I also think the refugee issue is being blown out of proportion. I reckon the debt of over $25,000 per Australian that our government has racked up is more important. We pay around $11B a year in interest on it. That $11B would build some nice hospitals in each capital city. They (politicians) keep commenting on how low our debt level is compared to other countries, which it is, but it is still not sustainable and someday in the future we have to pay it back. I have asked directly, several Labor politicians what their policy on repaying the debt is, and no-one has provided an answer. They simple state our debt levels are low compared to other countries. If I borrow money I need a plan of repayment, if a business borrows money they need a plan to repay it, if a corporation borrows money they need a plan to repay it.. If our government borrows money, they don't seem to have a plan to repay it

[Analog6]

That's because 40 years ago Vietnamese refugees were genuine refugees. They were being kept in poverty and in fear of their lives from an oppressive communist regime.

I doubt even 5% of the "refugees" coming over on boats are escaping being oppressed, in fear of their lives, and kept in poverty.

I will support the acceptance and rehabilitation in Australia of genuine refugees any time they need it, but they need to be refugees, not people who claim to be but have the money in the first place to pay the people smugglers to get them in the back door.

So you doubt they are genuine refugees. Here are some references that refute this:

Not economic refugees - a year 9 girl's story of their plight
"according to the government's own statistics, more than 90 per cent of asylum seekers arriving by boat in recent years have been genuine refugees, seeking real protection" full article
Refugees are people like us
Malcolm Fraser's comments on how the problem might be solved - actual useful advice for a change, rather than Abbott & Rudd demonisation

(Most of these are from the SMH simply because it is my most read paper and reflects, to a large extent, my opinions.)

Sadly, our notion of 'a Fair Go' has gone. What has happened to our nation - built on immigration and helping the vulnerable? The place where everyone could get a fair go no longer exists. Our collective heartlessness makes me very ashamed to call myself an Aussie - something I never thought I would say.

We are coming across to the world as cruel, heartless and merciless - a nation of sybarites only concerned with keeping what we have for ourselves. Our 'quality of mercy' isn't strained - it seems to me to be very finely sieved indeed.