Are Australians very good photographers on a whole?

[Bear Dale]

Ok this is not to get anyone's nose out of joint (are noses even actually jointed? anyways I digress) but after spending an inordinate amount of time on U.S and more international based photography sites......the level of work that people are producing is pretty mind blowing. Like I mean out of the park good!

Now while we do see work posted up on Ausph and other Aussie sites that is great (often very much so) it 'seems' and I say this with an open mind and willing to be shot down in inglorious flames that par for par we're behind the eight ball when it comes to the quality of what I'm seeing posted internationally.

Anyone else ever had the same thoughts?

[ameerat42]

Probably a sampling error on your part. I also spend some time on 2 other OS sites and their stuff is no better/worse (richer/poorer) than here.
But that might just be a sampling error on my part.
m.

[WhoDo]

It's easier to make a quid as a "Fine Art" photographer in a market the size of the USA or Europe. That may drive the perception to a degree. That said, I don't think our photographers are better or worse in any other category. How would you tell anyway? It's only where the scope broadens to Art categories, because we don't have the markets to support photographer's who are doing that regularly. JMHO of course.

[Steve Axford]

I used to spend quite a bit of time on this site http://1x.com/photos . It has some very good photos on it and if you like the style it is well worth while. It would be rare that a competition winner here would get accepted on 1x. That's not to say that Oz photographers aren't any good. It just says that there are a lot of other photographers in the world and that this site isn't really designed to produce the best possible comp winners.

[ricktas]

Australia has 25 million people. the US has 250 million.

We also tend to see photos of things like the Sydney Harbour Bridge as cliched but show a damn good bridge shot to an American and see what the reaction is. We may be perhaps a little blase about Australian images, after all it is what we see every day.

The other thing I notice, more so in wedding photography but it happens in other genre as well, is that there is a tendency to follow the latest 'it' style. A few years back that was selective colour, then we got trash the dress, recently it is the low contrast stuff and a bleach bypass type effect. We seem to be driven by what trends are happening elsewhere and follow along. Australian wedding photographers do not seem to me to be very innovative. But then again are they being driven by the market demand? "provide what the client wants".

I don't really think we are not good photographers and certainly Australians produce some amazing work, but maybe we are not innovative in some genre.

[JM Tran]

Australian photographers/amateurs/hobbyists compared to friends and colleagues I have seen in Asia, Europe, US

fashion = behind

commercial = behind

wedding = far behind

travel/documentary = on par

portraiture = on par

[fillum]

I don't know what sites you are referring to Jim, but from what I've seen most of those overseas 'better quality photo' sites (for lack of a better expression) have member photographers from all around the world, which would include Australians. I had a quick look at 1x.com from Steve's link and spotted a couple of Aussies fairly quickly, one of whom is an AP member (although I think inactive).

fashion = behind
commercial = behind
wedding = far behind

If you have time it would be interesting to see some (links to) examples of what you see as the current leading edge.



Cheers.

[ricktas]

The other aspect is the instant world we live in. Go back 50 years and it would take months for the 'latest fashions' to even make it to our shores. The internet and satellite access to TV has meant for the first time in human history we are seeing what is happening on the other side of the planet, as it happens. Maybe Australians are just used to being behind.

I sometimes am grateful we take our time cause some of the so called fashion and photography of it, is not good! Commercial photography has taken a hit in Australia as more and more of what we used to produce is now made overseas, and the manufacturer uses an overseas photographer and then those image files are sent around the world for use, where in the past they were taken here.

Copying everyone else does not necessarily mean advancing, being better, improving.

[zollo]

In general i agree with the op.

JM your wedding = far behind comment intrigues me. In recent times a fair share of the worlds top 10/top 20/top 100 wedding photographers as rated by various photographic 'authorities' are from Australia. Do you have any more specifics as to where we are behind?

I tend to agree with a previous poster that many if not most photos posted here and other oz forums would not make it onto a curated site like 1x. Personally I feel that is because Europe is a way ahead in regards to acceptance of photography as an art, and also it must be said, their use of image manipulation.

Which brings me to my last point, in general, in my opinion, Australian photographers are a country mile behind their acceptance, skills and use of photoshop, etc. in fact, I struggle to think of many Australian photographers who are highly regarded in their use of, and skill in post processing, beyond really what are the basics.

[Mark L]

I tend to agree with a previous poster that many if not most photos posted here and other oz forums would not make it onto a curated site like 1x.

Is that because nearly anyone can post nearly anything here. Many photos are posted in an attempt to learn, not in presenting excellence.

[zollo]

Is that because nearly anyone can post nearly anything here. Many photos are posted in an attempt to learn, not in presenting excellence.

Yeah absolutely, although I do see a lot of what is posted here is also on people's websites and portfolios.

Not a big deal, but I personally like to try and push myself quite hard.

[ricktas]

Yeah absolutely, although I do see a lot of what is posted here is also on people's websites and portfolios.

Not a big deal, but I personally like to try and push myself quite hard.

I agree, and this thread was about 'are Australian photographers good enough on a whole'. I think we are, but we need to get out from under the umbrella and get more creative in our own distinct and unique way, and then the world will sit up and take more notice. I think in some genre we tend to let the rest of the world lead..and we follow. We need to get away from that if we want to impress on the world stage.

[JM Tran]

In general i agree with the op.

JM your wedding = far behind comment intrigues me. In recent times a fair share of the worlds top 10/top 20/top 100 wedding photographers as rated by various photographic 'authorities' are from Australia. Do you have any more specifics as to where we are behind?

I tend to agree with a previous poster that many if not most photos posted here and other oz forums would not make it onto a curated site like 1x. Personally I feel that is because Europe is a way ahead in regards to acceptance of photography as an art, and also it must be said, their use of image manipulation.

Which brings me to my last point, in general, in my opinion, Australian photographers are a country mile behind their acceptance, skills and use of photoshop, etc. in fact, I struggle to think of many Australian photographers who are highly regarded in their use of, and skill in post processing, beyond really what are the basics.

Well the thing is, a few individuals who make it into these so called TOP 20 rankings dont necessarily represent the norm of Australian wedding photographers, so it can be misleading to say just because 4 or 5 etc as an example is in the 'top 20', does not automatically make Australia a world leader in wedding photography.

We, or the people I know or see, are sticking to the damn faux-vintage look which has become a big trend in wedding photography here and one would find it hard to see an individual photorgrapher's own style and separate them from the rest.

Compared to the creative stuff I constantly see from Asia from colleagues and strangers, and on other continents. We are currently emulating and not innovating.

[Mark L]

Well the thing is, a few individuals who make it into these so called TOP 20 rankings dont necessarily represent the norm of Australian wedding photographers, so it can be misleading to say just because 4 or 5 etc as an example is in the 'top 20', does not automatically make Australia a world leader in wedding photography.

It's not bad though, considering how many wedding photographers there are (in the world).
World leaders, who cares anyway.

[Lance B]

Compared to the creative stuff I constantly see from Asia from colleagues and strangers, and on other continents. We are currently emulating and not innovating.

Well, to be fair, there is not a lot that hasn't already been done with regards to wedding photography, so it is almost impossbile to "re-inent the wheel", as it were. I think you are doing many Australian wedding photogs a disservice saying that they are "emulating and not evolving", quite a broad brush statement. I think you will find there are many world class wedding photogs here that can be held up in high esteem. Trouble is, I would not be putting wedding photogs up as the bastion of great photography, it's production line photography mostly and done to a format to suit the client, not the photographers whim or artistc flare.

[JM Tran]

Well, to be fair, there is not a lot that hasn't already been done with regards to wedding photography, so it is almost impossbile to "re-inent the wheel", as it were. I think you are doing many Australian wedding photogs a disservice saying that they are "emulating and not evolving", quite a broad brush statement. I think you will find there are many world class wedding photogs here that can be held up in high esteem. Trouble is, I would not be putting wedding photogs up as the bastion of great photography, it's production line photography mostly and done to a format to suit the client, not the photographers whim or artistc flare.

Not sure how one would call most wedding photography production line photography, unless of course you are a budget wedding guy who constantly takes clients to the same locations, does the same style of editing and filters - that is production line, which is no difference to newspaper photographers who require the same style by the editors or sports photographers then?

If you look at my wedding work, or those of the 'world class wedding photogs' you mentioned Lance, you will see that no 2 weddings are the same, because they shouldnt be, if clients are paying top dollars then they expect their wedding to be individualized and not a production line, why should they when they are paying me or other good photographers the amount that someone receives for a years wage in SE Asia, in 1 day.

I do mine to my own whim and my artistic flare, same as any good one who puts in the effort to stand out from the rest.

Theres about 2500 ppl on my FB, not inc other networking links, and a high percentage of them are wedding photographers or have dabbled in it, and being able to see their work posted on a regular basis I have been 'privileged' enough to see the trends and styles that has been in and out in the last 5 years since I started working full time.

I can say factual things like - Lucisart ED filter is now being used quite regularly and aggressively for wedding photography in last 12 months, as more ppl know about it - when back then it was more for commercial/editorial photography. Its great to be able to see trends and changes, and those that are able to use it to their advantage will always progress further. I dont copy or follow editing styles, as I have my own and past, current and future clients are able to know my style from the rest.

Some of the advancements in wedding photography lies not in the way it is shot or processed, but the way business is conducted, theres a lot more to just selling prints after the wedding, technology evolution has given us the ability to increase our work effiency and effectiveness and deliver a much better end product than 10 or 20 or 30 years ago. This can be said for photography as a whole too in many cases.

[ricktas]

I can say factual things like - Lucisart ED filter is now being used quite regularly and aggressively for wedding photography in last 12 months, as more ppl know about it - when back then it was more for commercial/editorial photography. Its great to be able to see trends and changes, and those that are able to use it to their advantage will always progress further. I dont copy or follow editing styles, as I have my own and past, current and future clients are able to know my style from the rest.

That is where I see it. Photographers are relying in pre-existing processing methods to create a 'look', particularly in the wedding sector. You state 'Its great to be able to see trends and changes, and those that are able to use it to their advantage will always progress further', which is what I have been conveying, we follow the trends, not set them, and therein lies the reason that most Australian photographers are not seen as being in the best of the best. We are not developing 'breakthrough' ideas, rather we are following along with what Europe, Asia and the US are doing. I agree that you have your own style JM, but I can see the influences of the trends from overseas in your work. Yes you probably need to do that as part of your business, as business is about getting work and creating an income. You need to go where the work is, both creatively and financially.

But I see Jim's original question being about why we (Aussies) are not creating (or at least trying to) the trends, rather than following them.

[ricktas]

I suppose the other question that needs to be asked, if we are way behind the rest of the world, do we care?

As long as we, our clients, the people that view our photos, look a them, critique them, find what we are doing as good, then who cares if the rest of the world thinks it is better, more advanced than Australian photographers.

Following along blindly with the rest of the world really doesn't mean it is the right direction.

[ameerat42]

It depends on what "behind" means. You could "turn around" and become a leader. (Just like everybody else does.)
Trends! Yeah, g'day mate! (Like in a recent ad - with that sardonic tone.)
Am.

[zollo]

If you earn your living from it, already you would care.
And imo, if it stifles creativity by not caring, that is not good either