Compatability of lens's for full frame !

[graham68ktm]

Hello fello AP user's
I have a question regarding lens's , i am currently using a 7d and i am wondering if i ever upgrade to a full frame camera i can use my existing lens's ?
I am using a Tamron 18-270 f3.5 Di ll vc , Tokina 11-16 f2.8 at-x 116 pro dx and a canon 100 2.8 l macro ? any reply's would be greatly appreciated , thanks !





My father's son likes canon !

[jjphoto]

The first 2 are for APS-C DSLR's. All you need to do is Google them to find out for yourself, which is all I did as I know nothing about them.

The Canon 100/2.8 is an EF lens so it is a FF lens in the first palce. It existed before APS-c did, or for that matter digital Canon bodies. I bought one back in the film days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time...

Film wasn't that long ago was it?

[Wobbles]

Hi Graham,
I recently posted this elswhere -
Sigma - DC = APS-C Only; DG = APS-C & Full Frame
Tamron - DiII = APS-C Only; Di = APS-C & Full Frame
Tokina (same as Nikon) - DX = APS-C Only; FX = APS-C & Full Frame

That said, both the 'APS-C' lenses will physically mount on a FF body. However they have a shorter focal plain which results in a) severe vignetting ( a dark 'circle' around the image) and b) on some APS-C lenses this means the rear element extends further into the body and can cause mechanical damage to the mirror when a shot is taken. (I know this isn't the case for the Toki as it's a popular choice for a "cheap" ultrawide F2.8 on APS-H cameras, although you're only lose vignetting at the 13-16mm end. Not sure about the Tamron..

Cheers
John

[graham68ktm]

Thanks for the reply's , i now know that i have to factor that in if i ever move to FF in the future !
Thanks alot !

[William W]

I concur with the information regarding the nomenclature (the ‘DC’, ‘DX’,’ Di’ . . . etc) of the Third Party Lenses.

But importantly this designation is in respect of the IMAGE CIRCLE the lens throws.

Hence the vignette if your two third party lenses are mounted on a 5D, (for example).

BUT, also importantly, both your third party lenses are EF MOUNT lenses.

And as far as I know ALL third party purpose built lenses to fit ‘Canon APS-C Cameras’ are also an EF MOUNT.

So therefore, as they are all EF MOUNT lenses these third party lenses WILL mount onto a 5D (for example) and also will mount onto any other EOS Series Canon Camera (including Film EOS Series) without any fear of damage.

So that should add weight to the answers to your question.

***

Other stuff and where there is often misunderstandings

What Canon Did –

HOWEVER - Canon were a little different as they developed their Digital series of cameras and lenses - and they made a different BAYONET MOUNT - the EF-S MOUNT.

The “S” stands for ‘small’ as per ‘smaller image circle’.

But Canon did another ‘development’ also – they made the back-focus on their EF-S lenses, shorter than that which is on comparable, EF Lenses.


Which means in simple terms:

IF one bastardizes any EF-S Mount Lens so that it WILL mount on a camera with only the EF mount - at some points of the zooming (or maybe focussing), the rear of the EF-S Lens will stick into the Camera, such as to foul the mirror action – which is very bad: and it makes a very unfavourable sound, too.

BUT the point is - the user would have had to make ‘modifications’ to any EF-S mount lens to get it on a NON EF-S mount camera, anyway –

Because if you try to mount (for example) the EF-S Kit Zoom Lens on a 5D, the male bayonet of the Lens will just not mate to the female Camera Mount.


***


Tit Bits –

The “S” in “EF-S” is oft referred to as for ‘short’ as in: “short back focus” – But according to my earliest Canon reference that is incorrect: it is indeed the nomenclature for “smaller” image circle.

The “EF-S” refers generally to a BAYONET MOUNT (as does the “EF”) and this is irrespective of SENSOR SIZE.
It is incorrect to assume that all canon EOS APS-C digital cameras will have an EF-S mount, three early ones do not: D30; D60 and 10D.
The EF-S Lenses and Mount were not released for use until the EOS300D and the EOS 20D were released.

WW

[mikec]

William, that's all well and good but if third party manufacturers design their lenses for a APS-C camera, sure it may be an EF mount with an APS-C image circle but it might still protrude internally and foul the mirror.

To say or allude to otherwise is just silly unless you have personally tested every third party lens on the market to ensure there is no clash of mirror and lens you should leave such comments unsaid.

[graham68ktm]

I see there are different opinions about this topic and think I would stay on the cautious side if I was to move to FF !
I don't think I would like to hear the clunking of mirror on lens but thanks for the reply's .

[bricat]

PS I'm surprised nobody picked you up on the spelling of the plural for lens....LENSES... It seems a pet hate of some so consider yourself told.

[William W]

William, that's all well and good but if third party manufacturers design their lenses for a APS-C camera, sure it may be an EF mount with an APS-C image circle but it might still protrude internally and foul the mirror.

To say or allude to otherwise is just silly unless you have personally tested every third party lens on the market to ensure there is no clash of mirror and lens you should leave such comments unsaid.

That was the point of making the comment:
IF a lens is an EF Mount then lens BY DEFINITION - WILL NOT protrude far enough beyond the male bayonet ring of the lens to foul the mirror of the camera.
That’s a fact of design.
Your concept what of “silly” is misguided and ill-informed and your advice on what comments one should or should not make make, is not appreciated.

WW

[Tannin]

I have never heard on an EF lens made by any manufacturer which will not mount and operate safely with any EF system camera (FF or APS-H). However, note that in practice there are only a few small image circle models which are worth using on APS-H (Tokina 35mm macro is one) and probably none at all you'd want to use on a 5D.

[William]

I have a friend that had a 450D, He got the chance to buy a 5DMKII (He does'nt know that much about photography) Well he thinks he does , I nearly died when one morning he fronted up with the 5D and to my shock he had mounted his old 18-55 EF-S lens and was happily shooting away I tried to tell him it was'nt the right lens for the FF , But he still kept clicking away , The camera is still working , I have'nt seen any of his images tho to check for vignetting

[William W]

. . . I nearly died when one morning he fronted up with the 5D and to my shock he had mounted his old 18-55 EF-S lens and was happily shooting away I tried to tell him it was'nt the right lens for the FF , But he still kept clicking away , The camera is still working , I have'nt seen any of his images tho to check for vignetting

Any Canon EF-S Lens can be physically modified to mount on 5D (or any EF ONLY mount EOS camera).

Around the time the first EF-S 18 to 55 F/3.5 to 5.6 lenses were released (about 2003, I think), there were quite a few of these lenses bought and then they were modified for use as ‘an EF Mount Lens’.

This DYI Modification was made mainly by those Photographers who were using an EOS 10D to secure the new and reasonably priced zoom lens for use on their camera. There was a lot of exchanging of the various EF-S to EF Mount DYI Conversion Techniques, between Photograhers.

If the necessary machining was accurately performed, the modified lens worked fine on an EOS 10D at all Focal Lengths and all Focussing Distances.

According to my calculations, if such a modified lens is mounted on an EOS 5D the mirror of the 5D will hit the rear of the lens when the Lens is zoomed to around FL = 22mm or wider.

I have never mounted one of these modified EF-S lenses on a 5D to confirm my theoretical calculation – and don’t intend so to do.

WW

[William]

Neither would I , Thats the thing I thought as well William, I still think he'll come undone one day , Not sure of the focal length he shoots at , But next time I see him I will ask , I reckon he has just been lucky, So Far

PS : I will keep you posted on how the future goes with the 5D

[vk2gwk]

To illustrate the differences between a lens designed for APS-C sized sensor cameras I took a couple of photos:
When you mount a lens (i.c. Sigma DC 18-125mm) designed for the APS-C sensor on a FF camera you get this effect:

The same lens mounted on a camera with an APS_C sized sensor would result in this image:

Notice that this image corresponds with the area marked by the red quadrangle = the effective part of the lens.

The last image is the same scene taken by a FF camera with lens designed for this sensor size.

All three shots were taken at a focal length of 50mm (+/- 1 mm... ) - with central focus on one and the same spot in the scene. This also demonstrates the longer reach that can be achieved with a camera with an APS-C sized sensor compared with the full frame sensor camera at the same physical focal length.

[graham68ktm]

thanks for the comparisons of aps-c vs ff vk2gwk , it really shows how much the pixle's are crammed in on my 7d !
Im guessing that's why the high ISO performance isn't that good on the 7d ?