From what I gathered, a speedlite (580EX/SB900) puts out about 60W depending on the model. Some can go as high as 120-150W but these are mainly specialised models.Originally Posted by JimD
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Threadstarter
From what I gathered, a speedlite (580EX/SB900) puts out about 60W depending on the model. Some can go as high as 120-150W but these are mainly specialised models.
Nikon's SB-900 and most other speedlights give guide number references rather than w/s output.
The short answer to the question about how much brighter is a 300w/s strobe to a speedlight? = Plenty brighter!
Maybe 4-5 times as bright. I will shoot an SB-900 for you at full power later today and then shoot my Ranger RX Speed AS on 1/3 power, it is an 1100w/s pack to show the difference.
Threadstarter
The answer I used was based on some feedback and elinchrom (who estimate their entry level RX one (100W) model is twice as bright as a typical external flash with a much shorter recycling time. I figured the upper end flashes would be slightly better.
Missionman, I am going to jump in here, nly as you seem to really have a thing for those RX4's
My only advice is think really hard before you buy 100 Watt light's, I am pretty sure, before too long, you will be searching for more light.
If you really want a good budget, branded kit, I would look at the D-Lite 4's, 400 watt heads, built in wireless control, and in my opinion a lot better bang for buck than 100 watt heads
EDITED - My bad, missread the previous posts, the RX4's you are looking at are a replacement for the D-Lite4's so disregard everything I said
Last edited by MarkChap; 05-02-2013 at 9:14pm.
Interesting discussion. More so cause some of those posting argue quite vehemently about buying grey and the cost savings of doing so and how they would never but locally, but are the same ones arguing against the cheaper units here. Funnily if you turn Elinchrom etc upside down, most of them are made in China, just as the 'cheaper brands' are.
if you investigate thoroughly, you can find cheaper brand monoblocs that are compatible with Bowens, Elinchrom etc, so light replacements etc are easy to get.
I have Elinchrom's that I have had for years (about 10 at a guess), but I have also got friends with hypop and other brands and from use, they work just as well.
"It is one thing to make a picture of what a person looks like, it is another thing to make a portrait of who they are" - Paul Caponigro
Constructive Critique of my photographs is always appreciated
Nikon, etc!
RICK
My Photography
I'm one of those who is very pro-grey buying to get better, fairer pricing. In fact my Elinchrom lights, all 6 of them and all modifiers are from the USA, nothing bought locally. Even my light stands are from the USA, and with shipping I can still buy Avenger/Manfrotto cheaper than here. I don't advocate buying grey to get the cheapest item of a type available, I buy grey to get the quality products at a much better price. If I could buy the gear (apples for apples) that I buy grey for the same price or even very close to the same price locally I would, but I will never buy questionable quality/feature limited camera gear simply to save a few $.
Noted that you already have a SB700 and a SB600: have you seriously considered using an ALL Hot-Shoe Flash set up?
WW
The cheap, low end Elinchrom units are made from China/India
Most Bowens are made in the UK
I use Broncolor and its made in Switzerland
Too bad we dont live in the US, plenty of cheap local brands which are highly regarded by professionals such as Speedotron
Commercial/Editorial/Wedding work - www.jackietranphoto.com
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Broncolor lights up my world.
Threadstarter
Yeah. I thought about it but my major concerns are needing to have the lights too close for kids (I'd prefer to have them back a bit to avoid accidental knocks) and running at slightly higher shutterspeeds to cater for them not sitting still. Running the speedlites through umbrellas or softboxes may lose to much.
MM, having the lights further back is a double headed situation.
Yes, they will be out of the way of moving bodies -- but -- the further away that you have them the harsher the light will be and of course more power is needed to compensate for distance.
Trying to run higher shutter speeds is another problematic area.
Studio heads ( the lower end of the ranges ) usually have quite a long duration flash. Your camera will most likely only synch cleanly with studio heads using the cheaper triggers at about 1/160. Combine that shutter speed with long duration flashes and you still have movement blur in fast moving subjects.
The solution is to buy studio lights with shorter duration flashes ( cubic $ ) or "smart" triggers such as the phottix, pixel and other brands leading up to pocket wizards to allow high speed synch.
Your SB series speedlights have a much quicker flash duration that studio lights already.
AndrewNikon, Fuji, Nikkor, Sigma, Tamron, Tokina and too many other bits and pieces to list.
An option, although not a cheap one is PW's Mini/Flex combos for Nikon that have hypersync, allowing an offset to fire the light before the shutter opens, and this works best with heads that have slower flash duration. Essentially the longer T05 number will mean you can use shutter speeds much faster than x-sync because the whole time the shutter is open, you will have the strobe tail lighting the scene.
Many people with the right heads, typically for Elinchrom the 'S' heads are achieveing 1/4000+ shutter speeds.
Most quality heads have a flash T05 of 1/1000+ (1/800 for D-lite4's) in any case, so freezing all but the fastest moving subjects is not usually an issue if you are killing the ambient, but with hypersync allowing such fast shutter speeds the slower T05 is not going to be an issue. I was able to sync 100% clean frames with the Ranger pack and an 'S' head at 1/8000 and not even on full power.
Thank you for answering.
SLOWER Maximum Sync Speeds with Studio Flash Units, has already been mentioned.
Secondly – if the AMBIENT LIGHT in the studio is at the correct level, the SHUTTER SPEED should have naught to do with arresting SUBJECT MOTION – the Studio should be maintained such that the FLASH EXPOSURE is solely responsible for that.
***
In response #6 you specifically mentioned:
“Mainly kids, toddlers, babies but the odd full length"
And went on to state:
“fortunately I've managed to get away with some budget for this . . . "
In consideration of the thread generally and these two comments in particular, one might re-consider the addition of Hot Shoe Flash Units as “THE KIT”, for reasons of:
- Flexibility (location Child Portraiture as well as Studio, just as one example)
- System Redundancy
- System Integration
- Overall Cost
- Weight
- Bulk
WW
. . . and it is easy to run High Speed Sync, if you really want to.
Last edited by William W; 07-02-2013 at 1:20pm. Reason: added the last bit
Sorry, cannot in any way agree with that when the situation arises where you have a rapidly moving subject and long flash duration studio lights at slow(ish) shutter speeds even in a pitch black (ambient light) environment.
I can post plenty of photos proving that point!
. . . yes: but that was NOT the point.
The words have been quoted as a standalone out of context; also it occurs to me that my entire post has been misunderstood, at least by you and/or I was not clear enough.
To explain:
The point was: "SECONDLY"
i.e. the 'SECOND PART OF’ the fact that studio flash units MAKE one use a longer Shutter Speed, which you had already established and I particularly and had purposefully noted.
***
Then, later in the post . . .
"In consideration of the thread generally and these two comments in particular, one might re-consider the addition of Hot Shoe Flash Units as “THE KIT”, for reasons of:” and etc.
i.e. Apropos any very fast moving children or the like: it would be redundant to mention that (for a "properly maintained studio" to which I referred) Hot Shoe Flash will have a FASTER Flash Speed and that faster flash speed would be what would be 'NECESSARY' for such a properly maintained Studio if the OP were shooting fast moving children.
That point was already mentioned - it was you who specifically mentioned that.
Hence, my suggestion to the OP that he reconsider ‘Hot Shoe Flashes’ as an all round better option and I gave a list of THE OTHER reasons why I suggest he do that.
I trust that a clearer explanation of the way the specific words were used, to convey what was a total concept in my previous post and how it was an adjunct and addition, to the facts you had already posted.
There is no need to post examples, I also have plenty.
WW
Last edited by William W; 07-02-2013 at 4:20pm. Reason: cleaned up the meaning (a second time) - I hope.
William W, your post is rather misleading as the subject that was being addressed was the issue of shutter speeds and long flash duration studio heads so if your "secondly" part is about speedlights then that is rather out of context and certainly nothing in your writings indicate that you are referring to speedlights.
As for posting some images to demonstrate, I for one would wholeheartedly welcome seeing some from you demonstrating the issues that are being addressed. We haven't actually seen may images from you at all in the year or so that you have been a member.
I am not sure what your intention is by continuing this conversation, when a simple:
“OK thanks for clearing that up” would have surely been sufficient?
My first post was not clear enough - you pointed that out to me: and so in my second post I (assume) that I made my intented meaning clearer to the OP and to the thread generally.
If you want to term my first post "misleading" then that's fine by me - but that word conjures up some 'purposeful mischief' and that I did not have: so let's be clear on that point.
Isn't this forum supposed to be all about making the points clear to the OP?
WW
Threadstarter
Relax guys. No need to get stressed. I knew the original context of Williams post so it would only have been misleading to someone who didn't see it. There are more important things to worry about than arguments over misunderstandings. Here is an example of what i mean, she arrived at 1:50 pm yesterday and she already has me wrapped around her finger like her sister.
Last edited by MissionMan; 07-02-2013 at 5:16pm.
Good, thanks for mentioning you understood the original.
HUGELY beautiful.
Congratulations - I wish (both) your Daughter(s) a long prosperous, happy and healthy life.
WW
Oh my gosh, the pringle can snoot = priceless! Trying that out as soon as I finish my pringles... *munch munch* I nearly bought a snoot a while ago, but only being marginally aware of what they do at the time, I passed it up. I used two toilet roll cardboard taped together since then but a pringles can will be way better, thanks!
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