Happy to pay more in a store then online.

[Xenedis]

It seems that if they lowered their prices they might sell more volume and make more money, but it seems like the bricks and mortar stores wait for a sucker to arrive and then fleece him for all he/she is worth IE: extended warranty ,SD card etc ect.......

I think the problem rests more with the prices Canon, Nikon et al. charge the retailers.

There's very little margin in cameras.

[bladesp2]

I think the problem rests more with the prices Canon, Nikon et al. charge the retailers.

There's very little margin in cameras.

That's the general spiel from the camera stores ! .I don't believe it for one minute I worked in retail for a while and even when they reduce (sale) price they still make a nice profit .The difference from say the good guys to camera house is generally large also .I understand the small store needs to charge more but how much more $400.00 more !.I buy local when I can but it seems camera gear more than any other electronic gear costs more in a retail store why?

[Xenedis]

That's the general spiel from the camera stores ! .I don't believe it for one minute

I do.

Still, I'd rather buy online than pay more money than necessary.

I worked in retail for a while and even when they reduce (sale) price they still make a nice profit

Different goods have different markups.

Did you work in the photographic retail business?

When someone buys a camera, why do you think camera stores try to flog flash cards, cleaning kits, bags and those useless UV filters?

[I @ M]

That's the general spiel from the camera stores ! .I don't believe it for one minute I worked in retail for a while and even when they reduce (sale) price they still make a nice profit .The difference from say the good guys to camera house is generally large also .I understand the small store needs to charge more but how much more $400.00 more !.I buy local when I can but it seems camera gear more than any other electronic gear costs more in a retail store why?

blade, Xenedis is pretty spot on, I have seen the price lists from Nikon Aus and know the level of rebates etc applied to camera bodies and lenses. There is not enough in it to even buy a cup of coffee for the dealer when trying to compete with imported prices.

The reason for higher prices of cameras in consumer electronics compared to a washing machine for instance is that just about everyone owns a washing machine and they need to buy a new one every 6 years or so. Not everybody in Aus owns a camera ( dslr + lenses ) so volume of sales comes into it a lot. The other factor is that someone who deals in photographic gear at a shop front level probably doesn't sell toasters, hair dryers, computers and televisions whereas the hardly normal people of the retail world sell those items along with the washing machine AND cameras.

[Wayne]

One of the interesting things here is the view some folks have (don't get me wrong, I'm not saying anyone is right/wrong) that they are happy to pay a percentage more for a locally sourced product, a few mentioned 20% thereabouts to be acceptable.

I think for small items costing a couple of hundred bucks, sure, postage could easily eat most if not all of the difference in price if you got it offshore, but when you spend several thousand $, would say $5000+20% still be acceptable, even if we add the GST (which doesn't always happen) upon import?

Curious to know just how far others threshold for paying too much goes. Mine is pretty low.

[Lance B]

I buy locally in most circumstances, especially for cameras and lenses. I have purchased all my Nikon cameras and lenses from the one store here in Sydney, and whilst I could have purchased it all on-line for a bit cheaper, I would rather have the peace of mind knowing I can go back to the store and get good service if anything should go wrong. The other thing I am concerned about, but I have no prooof of this, is that some of the on-line stores may have old stock or refurbished stock or whatever rather than the latest up to date gear.

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blade, Xenedis is pretty spot on, I have seen the price lists from Nikon Aus and know the level of rebates etc applied to camera bodies and lenses. There is not enough in it to even buy a cup of coffee for the dealer when trying to compete with imported prices.

I have heard that camera stores get rebates on the volume they sell in a given period, lets say per month. So, lets say they sell $30,000 worth of Nikon (Canon/whomever) gear in a month, they get a 10% rebate on their invoices for that month from Nikon (Canon/whomever), and if they sell $50,000, they get 15% discount etc. These are just figures I have pulled out of the air for examples as I do not really know. So, whilst they will show you an invoice for what it costs them from Nikon (Canon/whomever), this is not necessarily the price they actually pay.

The reason for higher prices of cameras in consumer electronics compared to a washing machine for instance is that just about everyone owns a washing machine and they need to buy a new one every 6 years or so. Not everybody in Aus owns a camera ( dslr + lenses ) so volume of sales comes into it a lot. The other factor is that someone who deals in photographic gear at a shop front level probably doesn't sell toasters, hair dryers, computers and televisions whereas the hardly normal people of the retail world sell those items along with the washing machine AND cameras.

Exactly!

[I @ M]

I have heard that camera stores get rebates on the volume they sell in a given period, lets say per month. So, lets say they sell $30,000 worth of Nikon (Canon/whomever) gear in a month, they get a 10% rebate on their invoices for that month from Nikon (Canon/whomever), and if they sell $50,000, they get 15% discount etc. These are just figures I have pulled out of the air for examples as I do not really know. So, whilst they will show you an invoice for what it costs them from Nikon (Canon/whomever), this is not necessarily the price they actually pay.



Exactly!

Lance, as my posts says, as well as having seen the Nikon hard copy price list and having had the rebate system explained to me, a case in point is where our local dealer ( very small but long standing and very knowledgeable with very good service ) was asked by me for a price on a Nikkor 35mm F/1.4.
I saw the list price, I know the rebate applied right down to the % on that lens and the % for paying his account by the 21st of the month and because he has a slightly better price structure than he did 12 months ago he was able to retail it for the same price as the better stores in the capital cities.
He got the deal over a grey market lens because:- #1 the difference wasn't that much in the end and #2 the very large savings I made a month previous when purchasing a 70-200 Nikkor from eglobal helped fund the 35mm. he is aware that I have bought and will buy from o/seas when the price warrants it, he is also very happy to have some business from me when it comes to some items.
There are no hard feelings between us when I buy grey stuff because he understands the impossibility for him to meet some prices but continues to give good service and of course he is all smiles when I spend some of the savings with him on other gear.

I am all for keeping the local store open, but like so many others there is a price point where financial practicality overrules sentiment.

[Lance B]

Lance, as my posts says, as well as having seen the Nikon hard copy price list and having had the rebate system explained to me, a case in point is where our local dealer ( very small but long standing and very knowledgeable with very good service ) was asked by me for a price on a Nikkor 35mm F/1.4.
I saw the list price, I know the rebate applied right down to the % on that lens and the % for paying his account by the 21st of the month and because he has a slightly better price structure than he did 12 months ago he was able to retail it for the same price as the better stores in the capital cities.

So, let me get this clear, are you agreeing with me that this guy gets a rebate for selling a certain $ amount of Nikon gear per month like I was intimating? It is not 100% clear whether you are saying he does get the rebate off his invoice or not.

He got the deal over a grey market lens because:- #1 the difference wasn't that much in the end and #2 the very large savings I made a month previous when purchasing a 70-200 Nikkor from eglobal helped fund the 35mm. he is aware that I have bought and will buy from o/seas when the price warrants it, he is also very happy to have some business from me when it comes to some items.
There are no hard feelings between us when I buy grey stuff because he understands the impossibility for him to meet some prices but continues to give good service and of course he is all smiles when I spend some of the savings with him on other gear.

I am all for keeping the local store open, but like so many others there is a price point where financial practicality overrules sentiment.

I couldn't agree more. It is up to the individual and their circumstances as to where they shop and I am not trying to force my opinions on others, just that I try to shop local and help out as much as I can if the difference is not too great. I usually apply my own ~10% rule of thumb, in that if it costs ~10% more to shop local then I will pay the local shop cost as it will invariably cost me about 10% in extra hassle shipping etc to recoup this dealing on-line for warranty/repair, especially if it is over $AU$1,000 and comes from OS as there is a 10% GST to be applied anyway!

[I @ M]

So, let me get this clear, are you agreeing with me that this guy gets a rebate for selling a certain $ amount of Nikon gear per month like I was intimating? It is not 100% clear whether you are saying he does get the rebate off his invoice or not.

As clear as I know it ---
There are more than just one rebate.
He receives a rebate on the overall order price for items purchased from Nikon as opposed to sold for the month, he might have 5 coolpixes sitting on the shelf for several months unsold.
Then there is a rebate based on each item.
It appears from the pricing book that there is no overall % rebate on catalogue items but rather a % applied to each product. The figures are purely imaginary in my following scenario but the variance is factual. A 50mm F/1.8 lens may have a 10% rebate applied while a 400mm F2/2.8 might have 1% and a $250 coolpix which is on runout special might have 15%.
There is also the aforementioned "prompt account payment" figure that adds to the bottom line.

Having seen some specific figures it is very clear that many dealers are selling items at or below their invoice price and using the rebate as their profit margin, they still don't and can't match grey prices in most cases. I have seen some prices on particular items where with a very high rebate attached they can get close to grey prices but at the end of the day month they still aren't raking in the enormous amounts that many people would accuse them of doing as "greedy dealers".

The middleman always gets their cut and therein lies the problem for both dealer and consumer.

[Lance B]

As clear as I know it ---
There are more than just one rebate.
He receives a rebate on the overall order price for items purchased from Nikon as opposed to sold for the month, he might have 5 coolpixes sitting on the shelf for several months unsold.
Then there is a rebate based on each item.
It appears from the pricing book that there is no overall % rebate on catalogue items but rather a % applied to each product. The figures are purely imaginary in my following scenario but the variance is factual. A 50mm F/1.8 lens may have a 10% rebate applied while a 400mm F2/2.8 might have 1% and a $250 coolpix which is on runout special might have 15%.
There is also the aforementioned "prompt account payment" figure that adds to the bottom line.

Having seen some specific figures it is very clear that many dealers are selling items at or below their invoice price and using the rebate as their profit margin, they still don't and can't match grey prices in most cases. I have seen some prices on particular items where with a very high rebate attached they can get close to grey prices but at the end of the day month they still aren't raking in the enormous amounts that many people would accuse them of doing as "greedy dealers".

The middleman always gets their cut and therein lies the problem for both dealer and consumer.

Ok, it all makes sense now.

[fenderstrat1963]

I don't mind paying extra if I feel like I'm getting value for money. That's hard to quantify, sometimes it's just knowing the store well enough to know there won't be problems if I have to return the goods, sometimes I need advice to choose the gear. At other times I know what I want and there's no room in the budget to do anything except go for the lowest purchase price.

Lowest cost is another thing again. I haven't had many problems with gear so the costs associated with returning it, waiting for repairs or replacements, costs out of warranty etc. don't get rated as highly in my calculations. Maybe I'm a born sucker^H^H^H^H^H^H optimist

[bladesp2]

for one thing the sales reps from these companies will and do change over the older stock for newer stock ,as its in their interest to have the latest product for sale .For a start their is the standard markup of around 30-40% and then 10% added so they can drop that and make you feel better for not being ripped of so bad.I am somewhat of a hifi junky and this camera gear flows along the same lines as hi end hifi until you spend large amounts you don't even qualify for a reduction in prices .Just because everyone in Australia doesn't has a dslr doesn't mean you should pay more ? .and as far as service in these shops they are instructed to push certain products to obtain bonuses and credit with the sales reps .

[junqbox]

One of the interesting things here is the view some folks have (don't get me wrong, I'm not saying anyone is right/wrong) that they are happy to pay a percentage more for a locally sourced product, a few mentioned 20% thereabouts to be acceptable.

I think for small items costing a couple of hundred bucks, sure, postage could easily eat most if not all of the difference in price if you got it offshore, but when you spend several thousand $, would say $5000+20% still be acceptable, even if we add the GST (which doesn't always happen) upon import?

Curious to know just how far others threshold for paying too much goes. Mine is pretty low.

Understand what you're saying here in regards and an extra $1K, but if it's being bought as a grey market item from HK (or similar), I would regard the extra as 'insurance' of having less hassle if something goes wrong with it.

[Xenedis]

I am all for keeping the local store open, but like so many others there is a price point where financial practicality overrules sentiment.

Absolutely.

Unfortunately, the harsh reality is that if retailers cannot afford to operate under the tight conditions of the market, they need to re-evaluate their business model or get out of the game.

The middleman always gets their cut and therein lies the problem for both dealer and consumer.

Yes, everyone gets screwed there.

Parallel importers are able to buy stock cheaper and sell it cheaper than many retailers' cost price because they are not locked into the country/region-specific manufacturer's distribution chain.

What buyers need to understand is that there is nothing illegal or dodgy about the stock; it all came from the same factory, and that significantly cheaper Canon lens was merely purchased from a supplier which sourced it from somewhere other than Canon Australia.

Of course, the manufacturers know this all too well, and punish consumers by not providing a manufacturer's warranty, or allowing consumers to join associations like Canon Professional Services if their gear was purchased from anyone other than a Canon-authorised dealer.

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Understand what you're saying here in regards and an extra $1K, but if it's being bought as a grey market item from HK (or similar), I would regard the extra as 'insurance' of having less hassle if something goes wrong with it.

For a one-off purchase, perhaps, but with my investment in gear, the saving I've made over the years is a lot more than that, and in my experience, I've never needed warranty service.

It should also be kept in mind that a manufacturer's warranty is only valid for a year anyway, so it comes down to a personal risk assessment as to whether paying much higher prices to cover retail overheads and achieve presumed peace of mind is worthwhile.

Also remember that Australian consumers are protected under statutory legislation with regards to the purchase of goods and services.

If you buy a DSLR from an authorised dealer, your dealing is with that dealer, and that's where you'd go if the camera failed.

If you buy a DSLR from a reputable online dealer which is an Australian business but not a manfacturer-authorised dealer (eg, Discount Digital Electronics), the same situation applies.

If you buy from overseas dealers, eBay shops and the like, I'm not sure where you would stand there, so there is more risk involved.

The parallel importers from which I've purchased over the years are Australian businesses, not Asian-based bargain houses.

[Dan Cripps]

It seems that if they lowered their prices they might sell more volume and make more money, but it seems like the bricks and mortar stores wait for a sucker to arrive and then fleece him for all he/she is worth IE: extended warranty ,SD card etc ect.......

This post shows a distinct lack of understanding, imo.

[bladesp2]

This post shows a distinct lack of understanding, imo.

I don't know what to say ,except have you never been into a retail store and been given the sales pitch ,extended warranty ,the old we get them back all the time you will need this etc .its the first lesson in sales ,its not a lack of understanding its the truth .Every sales man/ women is told each customer is a potential dollar value, and to get as much as they can. Its how it works .If you don't believe me go to any sales conference anywhere in the world . sad but true

[Xenedis]

I don't know what to say

Then say nothing and quit while you're behind.

[bladesp2]

Then say nothing and quit while you're behind.

yes absolutely, what was i thinking having an opinion !.

gee Xenedis Ive started of well, how to win friends and influence people by Bladesp2 LOL

[Dan Cripps]

I don't know what to say ,except have you never been into a retail store and been given the sales pitch ,extended warranty ,the old we get them back all the time you will need this etc .its the first lesson in sales ,its not a lack of understanding its the truth .Every sales man/ women is told each customer is a potential dollar value, and to get as much as they can. Its how it works .If you don't believe me go to any sales conference anywhere in the world . sad but true

You contradict yourself.

If retailers weren't already making next to no profit margin on the actual goods they wouldn't need to resort to add-ons, upgrades and extended warranties to make ends meet. The fact that these tactics exist is generally through necessity, not greed, as you suggest.

Consumer commerce is not a level playing field these days, that's the reality. Brick and mortar stores suffer significantly higher overheads to sell identical products to their online competitors who not only operate at much lower overheads, but are often able to buy the goods wholesale cheaper through grey market channels. A double advantage!

There's no point complaining about it. If you don't enjoy the in-person retail experience, buy online. There's no need to paint an entire industry and workforce with a negative brush.

In any case, why shouldn't they maximise every sale? It's nonsensical to operate otherwise.

[ricktas]

In any case, why shouldn't they maximise every sale? It's nonsensical to operate otherwise.

exactly, this is not an camera gear only issue. Go to Macca's etc and get asked 'do you want fries with that'. Add-on at point of sale marketing is wide spread. Buy shoes and they will try and sell you polish, leather protector etc.